TJS

Generally the fight Classes are seperate from the regular classes...but once you start getting up in the system there is some pretty heavy contact

ok thats 1 example...I have heard countless stories of it being other way around...thats why I said it's "Rare".... 1 example hardly discounts my statment.

how well it works, how has it been proven, and of course i would have to enjoy it.

I will make one point You see and hear of countless people who have Traditional MA backgrounds and are now Training in MMA/Modern Styles and talking about how much they have improved,enjoy it, it's more effective etc, etc. etc. However You almost never see the reverse (A mma/modern practicioner switching to a traditional stlye and Claiming these things) Take that however you want.

then what techniques were they unable to perform in a ring?

There really werent any rules at that point other than no biting/eye gouging...but both of those happened on various occasions.

Helio Gracie Impoved on the techniques..Kimura Himself said it after his fight with helio..

WC Strayder you are missing the point of MMA, no one is saying certain stlyes are not effective but look at it like this- say for example you have studies WC for 3 years. Someone else has also studied WC for 3 years but they are also a competent wrestler and an experienced Muay Thai fighter. Who is going to be the better fighter excluding other variables? it's just logic. no one is saying that one stlye is inneffective but If someone has similar or equal skills to you in one area and better than you in another they are going to be more rounded fighter.

Great stuff

So you feel TKD is one of the most combat effective stlyes out there?

I also dont think Royce was ever in a position that would have ended the fight if he were on concrete... Would he have had more cuts/scrapes/bruises? proabably But i dont think Kimo would have neccesarily won....look at the size diffrence between them...what stlye would have done better? If two people have identical skill and training no matter what the stlye. the larger opponet will win...it's as simple as that.

KM is one of the LEAST defensive stlyes out there Krav Maga Is Self defense AND FIGHTING...It is know for it's agressivness..."defense" is not empasized like many syles...once you make the initial defense it is all about attacking and finishing the fight...or even a preemptive strike if neccesary. well depends on your defenition of "exciting", but I agree Krav Maga is designed to actually work in a real fight not "look cool" like alot of things out there. If it helps you in the street, how does it go to waste since that is what it is designed for?

i say once it gets past 2 your chances go down very signifigantly...im talking people who are really trying to hurt you..but i have heard of pro fighters taking on large numbers but thats a diffrent story.

i never said it was invincible but about 95%+ of todays fighters have cross trained in it to some extent i bet that includes don frye and Sakuraba.

ok, your right i should have been more clear...When Talking about a particular stlye I think there are open stlye that bring in new things and discard other things...for example Krav Maga has added more groundwrork in the last 10 years to accomidate the knowladge and training that is growing(bjj) Muay Thai has started using training meathods from boxing ..etc If your stlye is still brining in new things things and taking out what does not need to be there i would consider it an open stlye... when I was talking about MMA i meant there will never be some "new" stlye that Beats MMA becuase someone would simply start learning that stlye and add it to their own toolbox.

no, mma will not be outdated because the entire point of it is to take techniques that work and get rid of the techniques that doont...to constantly imporove....Unlike traditional stlyes whitch belive they can never change,adapt or improve...to me it seems a little unrealstic to belive throught the few years nothing could be added to a system to improve it.

I dont either..I come here to Discuss things.

I would hesitate to be kicked or punched..does that mean it cant happen? Unfortunatly you dont always have an option so you should train for the worse case scenario. and the whole multiple attackers/broken glass thing really does get WAY overused...they are valid in many cases but come on. Intresting, Go ahead and quote me on where i said my stlye is better than any stlye...I praise BJJ alot and also talk about it's weaknesses and defend it but I dont take BJJ...Same for Muay Thai..why? because unlike many people i try to take an unbiased point of view on what is effective. nothing will convince me otherwise? evidence will...so far I havent seen much. Thats exactly what im saying i have never made statments like "everyone should take _______ style or "_______ Is the best" some stlye have simply been proven more effective than other in various situations..some people like ot ignore obvious evidence in favor of the " I do it so im going to say it can" attitude.

Krav Maga does have ground fighting and grappling...I would think that would be something a black belt might like to know..does Shotokan teach ground fighting? if not then all your years of training just went out the window when someon tackles you...pretty hard to hold your own when you have no training there. yes thats always a chance ..thats just it, a "chance". really? I recall several people getting hit and kneed in the groin...Royce got Bitten in UFC 1 (right before he applied an extra vicious choke) and throat strikes were pefectly legal...they were fined for eye gouges but they did happen on occasion.. so basically your entire reasoning for it not being real is eye gouging? what gives a Shotokan black belt a distict advantage here? so Shotokan has signifigant training to avoid takedowns? heavy emphasis on grappling to make sure they end up on top? whats the diffrence? do you think you are going ot be on top against a skilled grappler? Usually the gaurd is a place of choice against a much larger opponet...at that point you have little choice. the diffrence is non of the reasons you have given hold weight or show distinct advantage...you can make blanket statments like that and exect people to belive it...lets hear some reasoning?

I would much rather fight tank abbot in a ring than on the street..the same goes for any of the others. what gives a shotokan black belt a distinct advantage at groin/throat strikes etc....all of those things were legal in the erarly UFC's..do you honestly think for example a shotokan black belt could "hold" his own with a Royce gracie if it went to the ground? If you definetition of "holding their own" is getting pounded into a bloody mess or gettign a few limbs broken then i agree....A blanket statment like that is so far beyond reality it's unreal.

No, sparring is the best preperation for a fight. period..look at any world class fighter..they how they fight..they dont do katas to prepare for a fight.

America has had vicotries over fighters from thailand before...Fairtex for example.

I think most pressure points are- A) hard to remeber under the stress and fear of a real fight B) pretty difficult to use on a fully resisting opponet due to the precision required C) unreliable at times against someone who is really bent on hurting you...when the addrenaline is pumping sometimes things dont bother you as much. Im not saying pressure points are usless im just think you should not put a huge amount of empasize on them or rely on them. I have had a few diffrent people use them on me while grappling and while they were uncofortable they were not enough to make me let go or loose my position.

as long as he knows his stuff i guess it dosent matter..just make sure it's not a Mcdojo..

Is this true? And if so, could you refer me to a few world class fighters that started around 20+, because if that's the case, I might try my hand at it Bas Rutten did not start seriously training until he was about 25 and he is thought by many to be one of the Best MMA fighters in the world.