TJS

Ali

-Bas Rutten-The Greatest MMA'ist in the world, 2nd deg black belt in TKD, 2nd Deg in Kyokushin, Muay Thai fighter, Submission wrestler. Just thought i would add some random comments in.. Yea why learn how to defend against bigger or stronger people? why not just lay down and die when someone asks you...you dont always have a choice..peopel dont ask you if you want to fight or run...what if you have to protect a loved one? I think i agree with both parties somewhat I belive an integrated and well rounded stytem has some advatages to it but I also think You can always learn some aswome stuff from a specific stlye like Muay Thai or BJJ since they are the best at what they do.

It think Krav Maga teaches more realistic and practical self defense, and does it alot quicker.

kick the heavy bag alot.

WC-it's cool. But i really wasant talking about the UFC,pride etc..i was just looking for what everyone would think about this. BTW, how old are you? there are lots of top fighters in the game that are in their late 30's and Heck Dan Severn is still fighting and winning at 49 Jerry- good point. I agree with it for the most part with a few exceptions.

intrestring i didint mention anything about BJJ or MMA. Go ahead and quote me where i said that,..really what does that have to do with anything? sure thing..since i always claim to be an awsome fighter I have an idea..how about sticking to the topic? Im not the topic you know. I aksed a simple question, what would the outcome of that mean? You seem to have some pent up frustration issues

Say you took Two styles ..lets say Judo versus jiu jitsu or Wing Chun vs TKD...just as examples You take 50 random practiconers of various rank and experience from each stlye and have them fight under a limited set of rules..and Judo wins 40 out of the 50 matches or WC wins 40 out of the 50 matches.. What would that mean? what would be the conclusion you would draw?

intresting, so by your thinking a muay thai fighter who cross trained in boxing does it because his hands are not effective or because it would just make him that much better? right, some stlyes just happen to cover alot more than others. Yes, TKD is not one of them. So if stlye A beats Style B 9 times out of 10 it's "diffrent" right. Then answer the question, if a TKD practicioner is tackled how will his training help him? Really, Try to find me a Muay Thai Mcdojo or a BJJ one...there may be some but they are few and far between unlike certain stlyes. No,not really.

Ultimately it comes down to the person yes, but thats why you look at generall succes rate. look at K-1 for example, a mixed event where karate,TKD,kung fu, muay thai, etc can all compete against each other in a standup event. is it pure coinsidence that Nearly every top standup fighter in the world trains in Muay thai?Or that Kyokushin karate is the only one you see winning there? Is it just conisidence that just about every top MMA/NHB fighting team(chute box,Brazilian top team, Millitech, etc.) uses Muay Thai as their standup style of choice? if it all relied on the fighter then why do you not see more fighters from other stlyes winning serious events? When certain stlye continually dominate fights again and again and other never have success it's hard to sit there and say it "ALL" comes down to the fighter...

Supanijas-Ring time will always be beneficial IMO. I agree with you there.

usually 6 months is about how long it takes to get a good foundation in a stlye like Muay Thai or Krav maga..and they are designed to be taught quickly..

If you took any cadio class you would be at a disadvantage..alot of KM shools offer Seperate Cardio classes...they are not designed to teach you how to defnd yourself.

I think it covers all of the various ranges of the fight well enough to handle myself..but does that mean I could not study a specific stlye like BJJ and impove my ground work? no. Wrestling for takedowns and defenses? no...you can always grow from other stlyes..im not contradictiong at all.. So it's impossible for a stlye to teach standup fighting, clinch fighting, ground fighting, weapon defefense, etc? It might not be possible to cover "every" situation but are you going to sit here and tell me all stlyes are equal when it comes to various ranges? no some stlyes stick to one range and others teach a full range of techniques. So if a TKD practicioner gets takcled by suprise and finds him self on bottom how is his training going to help him? this goes for anyone that does not train in various ranges. they might be able to use it but they may find themselves in a position where all their training is of little or no value. no a good combative stlye SHOULD cover all of the ranges of a fight..but like i said that does not mean you can not branch out and improve by learning other techniques. Really so TKD schools spar with leg kicks, knees, elbows, takedowns, groundfighting, etc? dont lie to yourself some might but 99% do not. Intresting opinion, but most TKD black belts have usually had a bit of exposure to the system.

Yes Thai fighters that fight full contact fights several times a week usually have problems...thats because they fight so much...the same would be true for any stlye. many fighters in thailand fight for a living. anyone who gets hit int he head alot all their life will have problems...does not apply strickly to boxing. Isn't getting in the ring and fighting the majority of both Thia and regular boxing's training. If so then the effects that treebranch spoke of would be common in people who spent a good deal of time training in these fighting styles. To simplify: You can not train in boxing effectively without getting hit in the head alot. You can not train Thia effectively without being hard on the legs and joints. Of coarse not everyone who trains in these styles will have severe damage from it. As far as which to choose between TMA and MMA. I would say that you should choose something that emphisizes your strengths and minimizes your weaknesses. If you are smaller or weaker something like aikido or hapkido could be effective for you. If you are bigger or stronger something like judo and/ or a striking art would enable you to use your natural advantages. FYI With proper training most men can retain a great amount of strength well into their older years. Older does not mean weaker! Robert wrong, when you train you wear things like 16 oz gloves, head gear, shingaurds, etc...so you can train effectivly without doing damage.

I just think it's intresting that these skills help them in "Real" fights but if you put any point fighter against a real fighter in a ring thety get beat to bloody mess...and please dont tell me how it's not "real fighing". The bottom line is someone who does point sparring will NEVER be as good as somene who fights full contact. BTW one of the mods will proabably lock this if you dont clean up the "insulting" comments...I dont care but i just dont like sseing threads locked all the time.

sounds like a crappy gym for what you describe..but it's hard to tell without being there..

Yes Thai fighters that fight full contact fights several times a week usually have problems...thats because they fight so much...the same would be true for any stlye. many fighters in thailand fight for a living. anyone who gets hit int he head alot all their life will have problems...does not apply strickly to boxing.

Ask any top fighter in the world how often they point spar..or try to find any that do...oh wait...none of them do..my bad.

no but my stlye does have stadup fighting, clinch fighting, ground fighting, takedown defenses,etc..where alot of stlyes are limited to one range..like TKD is limited to the punching/kicking range..yet somehow it's effective in all self defense situations? but it's ok well just pretend that all arts ar equal in every way. BTW I dont belive in an "ultimate" stlye I belive in cross training.

I just dont see the a huge point in spending the next 50 years training for somethign I may be able to use better after that...I have said before one of The KRav MAga Instructors down here is 70 and still throws down very well....so we are talking about 80+? do you think most people are going to be able to do much of any stlye after that? A) something that is going to be brutally effective for the next 50+ years B) something that might be slightly more effective after that? The choice is obvious to me.

yes that would be a better way to put it..

shoot in Grab both their legs and slam them back on their head

So since I wont be able to run when im old I should Start walking now?

Yoshin-Ryu Ju Jitsu

you mean like one of they key elements of MMA.....BJJ