TJS

how do you conclude that? dont live in a dream world where "all stlyes were created equal"

please, im not the one saying karate is complete,karate can beatw restlers and grapplers, karate can handle anything etc etc

if you think you can avoid getting slammed on your back then i can honestly say you have never fought an GOOD wrestler.

I think i agree with you for the most part on the advantages and disadvantages of the various types. the only thing i have noticed is while slow sparring is great for technique as you said It is many time difficult to transiton into full contact and not loose it..alot of people forget thing when punches are flying in

do you think if you fought a grappler or wrester in the street you would end up on top? they have a much better chance of getting a mount than anyone. I would much rather finish a fight with strikes aswell but thats not always an option..things happen

sure thing...K-1 has an aplication form on their website if you have what it takes go win an easy 50 grand. have you ever fough before?

Fireka-Im not trying ot be rude or bash but Muay Thai has been able to compete at the top levels of every serious mixed fighting event..You would be hard pressed to find a single fighter from Shotokan Competing in an Event like K-1. Although I admire you willingness to test your stlye, Some of the greatest fighters in the world have Traveled to Thailand to test their styles, unfortuantly very very few have been succesful the only ones to my knowladge to win a challenge match was Mas Oyama and a few of his students. Kyokushin still comptes at top levels today against muay thai in K-1. you cant say the same for Shotokan

not off the top of my head, im going to class now...when I get back i'll see if I can did something up.

use Muay thai for example...arguably the most effective stand up fighting style in the world..has the highest succes rate by far and has proven itself in challenge matches time and again. but it's not nearly as popular as TKD or karate for instance..why? because 90% of americans dont want to go through " the real deal"..they wouldent want to endure the training and conditioning.

as in the traditional/Japanese version?

Although idealy one would want to stay standing time and time again it has been proven it's not that easy...wrestlers and other grapplers are the the only ones who can do it and even them it easy to pull someone down into your gaurd. both great stlyes and rescently have shown their effectiveness but just about all of them cross train in BJJ, in the early UFC Judo didint do nearly as well as BJJ and usually wrestlers were very tough..but without submission knowlade they usually got caught. Im not imply BJJ is the only way but when going up against agood BJJer it's just about neccesary to know BJJ to some extent.

I'll say one comment- popularity amoung avg people is by far not the best judge of a stlyes effectivness, im just speaking in general here.

Vitor belfort entered the octagon at age 18 and destroyed the competition..he made short work of some of the hardest hitters around including Tank Abbot, Scott Ferrozo, and Vandelei Silva....I always like this video..just figured i would post it....this it what i tlooks like you you take some raw talent, a little BJJ, and some fast hands from western boxing . http://www.sherdog.com/videos/belfort/belfortvideo.shtm there is a low and a high quality version you can download. Not sure if i shoudl have posted it somewhere else, if so please move it to the appropriate location mods.

learn bjj..it's the only way your going to beat that or wrestling, even then you need to know it to an extent to avoid submissions.

Thai fighters are extremly tough in general...that would carry over well to the streets imo.

you know I belive Kyokushin is a great stlye and i respect it greatly but if they trained purley in Kyokushin they wouldent do much better against a grappler. here is a video of a Kyokushin fighter against hugo Duarte, hugo does luta livre(similar to BJJ)... http://216.40.244.4/misc/uvt2/uvt2_duarte_vs_harris.zip (hugo was later pounded unconcious by tank abbot )

since it was a $600 challenge match... I bet he didint loose on purpose and he proabably knew something if he accepted the challenge.

yes because when two people fight with no rules other than no biting or eye gouging it is absoulutly nothing like a real fight.. watch ufc 1-5 Can' you pick up a club and beat someone with it in a competition? Can you use any weapons in a competition? Do they have competitons where there are multiple attackers aginst one person? Competitions have rules I mean you stated two that would really turn around a fight. ok lets just arm both people with AK-47's to see who the better Martial artist is.. what does a weapon have to do with anything? If you loose to one person why would you be better than them at fighting multiple attackers? your argument does not apply in any way. I realize Strret fights and Ring fighting are two diffrent things, there are alot more variables but that does not mean the better fighter does not still have the advantage. nothing is exactly like A real fight but NHB/MMA competitions are the best proving ground for what works and what does not IMO.

yes, gloves definetly can create problems, especially 16 oz, you can use them as a shields or padding and just cover up, where a bare hand would provide alot less coverage, it's also alot harder to redirect punches effectivly. many people use mma stlye gloves to get the best of both worlds. anyways, what level of contact do you spar with? do you punch to the face?

no, there are alot of highlight videos on shedog.com look at the fighter profile for Royce Gracie..i think he has one. Ken shamrock also. or you can rent them at most blockbusters, or buy the video set.

yes because when two people fight with no rules other than no biting or eye gouging it is absoulutly nothing like a real fight.. watch ufc 1-5

exactly..too many people understimante their ability to defend a takedown. UFC 1-5 should definetly be something everyone has seen.

I will say one thing to that...the better grappler is usually going to be in a better position to bite or eye gouge... but yes dirty tactics can be an equalizer..just not a magic solution

I understand the point you were trying to make, but think of i the other way around? can you do enough damge to complety stop a grappler before he shoots for the clinch or a takedown..most train very hard at not getting hit in the procces.

I can save with 100% certainty you are wrong on this issue... time and time again this debate has been proven if you dont know grappling you will loose to a grappler did you ever watch UFC 1-5...if you honestly think you can knockout someone before they get you down then you have never fought a grappler. here is a video of a 1st dan Shotokan Black belt vs a BJJ'er ..nine times out of 10 this is what that fight would look like. http://www.bullshido.us/dl_goto.asp?id=64 here is another example http://www.bullshido.us/dl_goto.asp?id=23