Taikudo-ka

As far as actual monastic life, I'd imagine its pretty similar whether you're in England or the far East... You;d have little in the way of personal possessions, wake up very early (probably around 4:00am), enjoy humble communal meals, spend a good portion of the day in meditation (either silent or involving some form of chant/song), and go to bed early. You'd probably grow your own food at the monastery, and have to do your share of chores, and also cleaning and all your other own work. (Unless you were a senior abbot or something) The main difference is that the scriptually oriented western monks spent their time copying sacred manuscripts, the more internally oriented eastern monks spent time studying martial arts and internal exercises. Hehe I imagine a good portion of this was pretty similar to traditional martial arts lessons today... just different scenery. I know they had "balance poles" mounted in a yard that were used to practise forms on top of...

Come on, everyone knows the original "Kung Fu" was a much more accurate portrayal of Shaolin Monks... I looked into this a bit, there was even a TV special over here about it... yes you can now live and study at "Shaolin" (though your school might not actually be IN the temple), there IS a temple there, you CAN visit and see monks doing Kung Fu (or more accurately Wu Shu) and I believe they are taking students. However, it all seems a bit touristy... There is a big school there that trains in an old castle courtyard and it all looks very atmospheric, but at the end of the day it all reminded me very much of the typical karate lesson in the local dojo, just with a better backdrop (and orange robes). I think most of the actual Shaolin temple has been set up pretty much as a tourist attraction. All the Wu Shu schools are a side-effect of this. Generally from what I gather you're taught by a "martial monk" who is realy just a martial arts teacher in orange robes, who doesn't follow the rest of the Shaolin traditions... I'm pretty sure you're just taught standard modern Wu Shu as well, not some ancient kung-fu secrets hitherto hidden from the world.

"6. It gives people the ongoing opportunity to use the “Boards don’t hit back” slogan" Yes, but always remember, neither do wooden dummies...

Well I know in Ju-Jutsu you can "knock the opponent around" a bit with some techniques, so it doesn't just rely on grabbing a good strong gi. Judo maybe more so, as it's more of a sport, and I know they do wear a VERY heavy gi, with special "grab" pads. (As with Aikido). I've heard most holds can be adapted to some sort of body grab anyway, so both would still be cool to know. I've seen ju-jutsu guys practising in plain clothes. I did a ninjitsu class in my dim past, which was basically just jujutsu. All plain clothes - I wore a light T shirt and track pants, and the instructor had no problem getting me on the ground in a choker hold every time...

True. Most kids learn at a young age that stabbing someone or shooting them with a gun will probably kill them. Most schoolteachers know that blows to the temple or back or skull (among others) are particularly dangerous, especially to children, who's skulls are softer. My mother (a teacher) specifically warned me against hitting anyone in these locations, because of the potentially lethal consequences. I also remember in high school one bully going around applying some sort of choker hold to other kids. One poor kid did actually pass out, resulting in a bloodied face and nose as he connected with the concrete, and he was pretty dazed for a while. Actually I think the recent spates of high school shootings show that the most lethal combination is a heavily bullied child with access to firearms. So yeah, I guess anything can be dangerous. Techniques can filter down in the playground to those who shouldn't really have them. I suppose a case could be made to keep these things secret. My question is, would you want your own child to know effective, even potentially lethal moves, if it would save them even once from an attacker? Or would you prefer they did some relatively "hamless" sports art, so as not to accidentally harm anyone?

Hmmm, I'd say if you've already done karate there'd be little benefit in doing something really similar like TKD - unless you already want to be relatively good at your "new" art, and perhaps learn little extras and details, like some fancy kicks in TKD, or doing some boxing to improve upper body work. From the point of view of getting the most bang-for-buck fighting improvement, and broadening rather than deepening your martial arts knowledge, might I suggest a grappling art like Ju-Jutsu, Judo, or maybe even something like Aikido. That would open up a whole new area of combat - grappling, and make you a more rounded fighter. Also I've heard that karateka that study something like judo often get a new view of kata and discover many similar moves "hidden" in the kata, so it might be a nice way to extend yor karate as well. It might also give you more upper body work to balance already strong legs, and possible the "soft" techniques will not be so jarring on back problems, etc... On second thoughts, with all that thowing, etc, maybe not...anyone know for sure what would be less "stressful" on a bad back? Depends if you want to go broad or deep with your MA. If you just want to work on those kicks, try TKD.

Well if you are as good as you say you are perhaps your teacher really doesn't think you need much extra advice? If he's always pointing out small details perhaps you should be happy that your form is so good already that he can only make small corrections, trying to perfect it. If I do some form, and the only advice I get is to move my pulled back fist half an inch lower or something, I'd feel I'd done it pretty well. Particulary when the next guy does the same thing and the sensei asks "OK, Who can tell me what this guy has done wrong?" because his hips are all out, and his wrist is bent, and one leg is at completely the wrong angle... Perhaps he doesn't think he needs to "egg you on" because you are already making good progress? I'd say if you really want some constructive feedback, approach him before or after class or during a break when he's not busy, and ask him what your main weaknesses are. If you can ask the question this way, so he has to give some specific feedback on things you could improve, you might get a better answer. If you just ask "how am I doing?" it's much easier to reply with a tokenism like "yeah, good, you're doing fine".

Hehe well "Tekki" used to be called "Naihanchi" and was originally the first kata learnt. It also had a reputation for being "the most deadly kata"... Choki Motobu said that naihanchi was the only kata needed to learn how to fight effectively. Also, it was originally not in horse stance, or so I've heard, but something called "Naihanchi Stance" which was similar but not identical. Anyone been taught this version? How does the stance actually differ?

I have two makwara on my wall - a padded wooden clapper with spring and a canvas bag, currently filled with rice. I find the clapper a bit too "weak", in that I can hit it full on drive it fully back without 110% effort, at which point it becomes too hard and hurts my fist. I could pound it longer with an open palm though... Nice idea, but I'd like it scaled up a bit, with much more flex back, but stronger springs, so I can hit it harder. (would've been great when I was about, 10?) I have to wrap my hands to hit this one... The bag is probably better, cause my fist can sink into it a fair bit, but it gives a good indication of how hard the blow was. I reckon a floor mounted makiwara would be better, a "soft" one with plenty of give, so you could knock it back far with a hard strike. Really, the makiwara is just an early form of the "wavemaster"... but I can't get one of those over here. I'd really like a heavy bag, but in an apartment, not too sure where I can hang it... and a self standing frame is 4x the price of the bag itself! I'd suggest avoiding those flat wall mount bits of wood with big foam pads on them you see everywhere - too soft to work as some "knuckle conditioner" but too rigid to really let you hit it hard.

Hmmm...well particularly with all the Americans on the board, I'm surprized no-one has said they try to get in touch with God while meditating... Have you ever considered it interesting that the prayer/meditation forms of so many cultures are so similar... I even saw a photo of an old Jamaican Rasta Elder from way up in the hills, demonstrating how to meditate/pray correctly, and damned if he wasn't sitting in almost perfect seiza!

Shorin-Ryu is the Okinawan style that descends from earlier Shuri-Te and Tomari-Te. Gichin Funakoshi could be said to have studied Shorin-Ryu under Itosu and Azato. Later, when he went to Japan, he modified a lot of his art, in particular renaming and reordering katas, as well as changing and simplifying many moves. This new Japanese style taught by Funakoshi in the Shoto-Kan (waving pines hall), became known, not suprisingly, as "Shotokan" style. Note that Funakoshi himself opposed giving karate a multitude of stylistic names. He believed karate-do should just be karate-do.

Hehe, yeah, why out of all the animal named forms and stances in eastern martial arts, is this one (horse stance) the one people have to take literally... Historically, mounted combat usually also involved fairly long range weapons - bows, lances, at worst long-swords, sabres, great maces. Besides, that "wave kick" or sweep avoidance or whatever, how do you do that? Kick in the horses ribs?

Well Karate also has jabs, hooks, uppercuts, etc... I don't think one NEEDS to do boxing to get excellent hand skills. In fact, for all I know a boxer might benefit from learning, say, Wing Chun "sticky hands", and adapting the principals to the boxing ring. However, by specializing in hand skills, the boxer can concentrate all their time and effort into improving this area, so naturally you'd expect them to be excellent when it comes to punching, parrying, blocking, dodging and weaving, etc. Also boxers, particularly for competition fighting, train very hard, for full contact fighting. Sure boxing is a sport, and as such the art has focused on a limited range of what were considered "fair and sporting" fighting techniques back in the day (i.e "none o' that girly kickin' and open hand slapping, no continental poofter rolling around on the ground nonsense, nothing below the belt, now put up yer dukes, old chap") A boxer might not be expecting that kick or elbow on the street, but I wouldn't want to rely on it as a fail-safe winning move. You might find the distance closed and a chain of punches coming at your head. It'd all come down to who has trained harder, all other things being equal. What I think a boxer WOULDN'T be expecting in a fight would be any trained grappling moves - joint locks, throws, being laid flat on his back with a choker hold applied, etc. Nothing in the boxing training has prepared them for this... (not even kata...hehehe) I've heard a lot of stuff on this board like "if you want to fight, do a fighting art" (usually in reference to Muay Thai), or "Karate is not for fighting", etc. I think boxing is definitely one of those "for fighting" arts, i.e put em up and go X rounds in a proper fight, one on one. And effective if used that way. Notice I used the phrase "proper fight". Karate, in the old jutsu form, was "not for fighting", sure... but not because you just let people beat you up. It was also "too deadly for sport", but not necessarily because you could punch a hole through a vital point... It wasn't for fighting because it was designed to end fights... permanently. Try to "fight" a boxer, or Muay Thai fighter, and they'll fight back. Try to "fight" an old karate-jutsu master and your punching arm has just been seized and broken at the elbow with a few lightning quick moves. Stand helpless in pain as your friend tries the same thing, and finds an elbow rammed into his throat, his testicles seized, and next thing is lying on the ground where he landed skull first, with blood pooling around his head... Now do you see the difference between the two arts? An art designed for "fighting" and an art designed for "not fighting". I suppose this is why boxing could be considered "the noble art of self defense" because you just try to wear down your opponent or knock them out without permanently maiming or killing them. Also why karate really was once too dangerous for just showing off, or sparring in the ring, or using carelessly in anything except the most dire circumstances. It took a lot of modifying to get to the modern "kickboxing" competition karate we have today. Whereas, as you say, with boxing you fight the same in and out of the ring, same as it's always been.

As an adendum to my last post, I'd like to say that the comparison relies on the Hapkido master having a build that is not at too much of a disadvantage against Tyson. eg, similar weight, or if somewhat lighter, at least with a height advantage. If he's built like Gichin Funakoshi (i.e. about 5'. 120lbs), then he'd have a harder time against a human tank like Tyson. Maybe not impossible, just much harder.

Yeah, it IS never ending fantasy and speculation... All down to the individual and how well they trained, and their natural ability. This is what I think. Boxing is a martial art, and Tyson is considered one of the world's best, not just in skill but overall physique and fighting attitude (i.e. HEAVYweight champion - he's a big, very strong guy, and he's beat lots of other very big, strong guys) But boxing is a very "sport" oriented art, rather than focusing on self-defense per se. It is also "limited" in technique to mainly hand-work. No kicking or grappling, no vital point striking, no bare-hand striking with various "hands" (knuckle fist, open palm, hammer, etc) The flip-side of this is that by focusing and training very hard on a "limited" set of techniques, the boxer can develop excellent hand skills, with fast, lethal combination punches and excellent upper body defense and evasion. Hapkido, on the other hand, is a very broad martial art. (From what I understand, a sort of combo of Aikido and Tae-Kwon-Do). So the Hapkidoist will have a wide range of techniques, knowledge of whole body defense, kicking, throws, locks, etc. Hopefully he knows about vital point striking, and is used to bare-knuckle punching from striking the makiwara or heavy bag or whatever they use in Hapkido. The flip-side is that they can't have devoted as much time to each area, so his punching, say, will probably not be as good as a boxer who punches "full-time". Also it is unlikely that an instructor at a dojo has trained as hard and is in as good a shape as the world heavyweight champion of any martial art. I think the key to victory here for the skilled Hapkidoist (or Karateka or whatever) would be learning and being able to apply the high level "street defense" moves in the kata, or that have come froem Aikido in Hapkido. I'd say that if your Hapkido Master tried to fight Tyson on "his terms", ie a sparring fight style, trying to out punch and kick the champ, the Hapkido master would probably lose. The low kicks COULD be useful, but I don't think they'd add too much to the game, unless he gets lucky, or Tyson forgets he's not in the ring and breaks his hand on your skull... On the other hand, if the Hapkido master is able to pull some of the high-level stuff on Tyson, get him in a lock, break his arm, throw him on his back, etc, perhaps assisted by a few well placed blows to vital points like throat, groin, knees, eyes and nasal bridge, etc, I think he might have a good chance. Tyson would have NO training against that sort of stuff, and would probably not be expecting it Be warned though, he has been known to fight dirty...

Hehe I love Japanese food... miso soup, sashimi, chicken katsu, tempura, all those udon and soba soups with seaweed, raw egg, etc, not to mention the good old ramen. I love those set lunch/dinner boxes with the little square compartments with the range of dishes in them. I think the Japanese food we have in Australia is fairly authentic. I introduced one of my friends to Japanese food (other than the ubiquitous sushi roll) just before he left for Japan to teach English for 6 months. Now he's back he has a passion for Japanese food, and recognizes the stuff on the menus here... he was pretty much eating the same stuff as you get at the variety of Japanese restaurants/cafes over here. On the other hand my dad went to China and Hong Kong, and I gathered that the most "traditional" Chinese food there was the roadside noodle soup vendor, who would serve his own special recipe from a small stall.

White Crane Kung-Fu is also said to be founded by a woman, Fang Qiniang. She is said to have gained considerable fame after defeating hard style monk fist boxer Zeng Cishu. (Who subsequently became her disciple.) There are plenty of women in my karate class, including one of the instructors.

What do you want to do? What do you mean by "best"? Best in an open martial arts tournament ring? Best for "street defense" against an unskilled assailant? Best for hard core full contact street fighting? Best for hard, disciplined training, fitness, flexibility, etc? Best to disable and control an attacker without harming them unduly, eg for police attempting an arrest? Best to use against an enemy armed with a machine gun, grenades, bazookas and suicide bombers? There are several threads, particularly in general martial arts, discussing the pros and cons of various arts.

Well no other volunteers? I've never run a dojo but I'd assume you'd approach it with a standard business model. Only you can decide how many hours a week you want to teach, how big a class, and how much profit to make, and how much money you're willing to invest in the venture. Be accurate with these calculations, make sure you know how much everything is going to cost on an ongoing basis, as well as your initial startup costs. That way you can structure your fees so that with a realistic number of students you don't lose money and go broke. To get things going, your basic needs are people to train, somewhere to train them, and compliance with local laws. Compliance with laws This is probably the easiest part. Most places you'd just have to register a business name ("Morgray's Mutant Martial Ninjas"), keep accurate tax records and follow whatever tax program the local tax office gives you, and register for some form of public liability insurance. (I understand this is the killer for many people... technically you only need it if someone sues you AND you can't afford to pay out of your own pocket... ) I don't think there's any special need to have a "martial arts license" or anything. You might want to register your club with some large national/international body for your art, though. (e.g. the Australian Karate Federation for Aust. karate clubs). Depends if that's your style or not... Somewhere to train This all depends on budget and personal taste. I can't tell you where to train or how to set it up. It could be a converted room in your house, it could be a public park, it could be a rented community hall, or you could set up a permanent dojo somewhere. Not hard, just rent some commercial property somewhere convenient, decorate to taste/budget, install whatever equipment you need/can afford, and hang up a sign. Check with the landlord about what you can do with the place - commercial property tends to be fairly flexible as far as refitting/modifying places because every new company always wants to outfit things differently to suit their business. People to Train Maybe the hardest part? Maybe for you the easiest. I don't know. But you'll probably have to advertise to find students if you want a decent sized school. Again, 1001 ways to do that, depending on budget. You'd probably want a phone number people can call to get info about the school, maybe even a website or a listing in the local business directory. Or you could just stick photocopied ads on poles... Not that you necessarily need all this... The beauty of martial arts is they can be taught and practised in a public park, with no special equipment, and no need to follow any special regulation. But if money gets involved and you want to run it as a business and a source of income, these are some of the things to consider.

Tto true, Ti Kwon... I see this a lot, not just with martial arts. People want to join an organization then totally bend and twist it to suit themselves. I'm open minded and open to debate, but I do think some people go too far. I think there is a point where a person should perhaps realize that an activity is not right for them and leave, rather than try to change the activity. At the end of the day, if you want to run around with the ball, join a rugby football club. Don't join a soccer league then moan and gripe about the "no hands" rule.

For those who've never seen one, imagine a loose, ground length pleated skirt. However, it's split up the middle, so there are actually two seperate legs like a pair of trousers... (sort of like trousers disguised as a skirt ) Generally a heavy dark material. Wouldn't the most ultra-traditional and authentic karate training gear be one's underwear... good old 19th century boxer shorts and singlet top like the Okinawans were always wearing in those early home training photos?

I don't think eastern martial arts are "just for show"... all of these things, even Tai Chi, were originally designed to provide effective defense against an assailant. However, many (if not most) eastern arts have hidden the art in a show, to some degree. (eg some katas have become overly stylized and performed flamboyantly with high kicks, etc.) Also, many have been turned into a sport. In this case, moves are adapted and rules imposed to minimize injury and allow some continuous, athletic, interesting to watch sparing to take place. But each art has at its core a self defense system. It's just up to the individual to discover it, both in the art, and then in themselves. [ This Message was edited by: Taikudo-ka on 2002-04-23 08:29 ]

Hehe Well Bon, as an Aussie, you must know that some hardened drinkers can become violent, aggressive and desensitized to pain long before they hit the stumbling, clumsy, easy to defeat stage. Plus you never know what else they've consumed with it... Still, I'll agree that the response was on the extreme side... I guess it'd depend on variables like the size and weight of the two parties, state of drunkeness (tipsy? aggressive? blind stumbling?), even the force of the punch (was it a light push or a full force haymaker at your head?) I'd want to weigh all these things myself before I made a final verdict.

Well I happen to believe that a person is responsible for their own actions regardless of what they've eaten, drunk, smoked, snorted or otherwise consumned. No-one forces a person to get blotto then do stupid things. Nor does it give them a license to get violent, sleep with someone elses wife, commit rape, pee on the floor, or run someone over. It's no good to do something like this then say afterwards "it wasn't me, it was the booze"...I'm sorry, but it WAS you. In Australia, people who have an accident or injure someone while driving drunk face harsher treatment than someone who does the same thing sober. So why should it be different if you are walking? If anything, you should be held MORE accountable, for purposely putting youself into a state where you're more violent and out of control - and probably less succeptable to pain - before going out to wreak havoc. Instead, as in this case, the law seems to use intoxication as an excuse, and rules that the person who attempts to stop or defend against unsuitable behaviour is at fault. The application of law in some cases seems to suggest that we should just let a drunk man punch us, or sit quietly while the burglar makes off, give a robber your money, let a thug rape your wife, but if you buy a hot coffee and pour it on your lap, you should scream and shout and sue for letting the store sell you a hot coffee, and demand millions. It just doesn't seem to fit any sort of moral code I know.

"He banged his shin too hard and got a big egg on it - it turned nasty & he was dead 6 months later - Shin Cancer." Yowza... this is not the first time I've heard of some injury turning cancerous... But how come this is so hushed up? I mean, cancer is blamed on everything from cigarettes to milk to mobile phone radiation... but how often do you see or hear "warning: coping a good old fashioned beating may cause cancer!" Or does getting hit only give cancer to people who already smoke, eat red meat and use mobile phones? Shouldn't there be more information on this around?