jeffrogers

true I the point is there are arts that teach alot of good stuff. But no art teaches every thing. Best to keep in open mind check stuff out for your selves. -Jeff

saifights - I will be in Korea for 7 more months. Unless I extend. I really haven't gone out that much to train with any one. Hard to find time in the army over here. When your either going to the field or your schedule gets roated or messed up alot. I am going on leave soon. When I get back I am going to seoul they have a BJJ gym out there. -Jeff

Kagogi is tough, and stringy I had it with Korean friends. I am in S. Korea now for 9 more months. also for those that don't know. Kagogi is (Dog Meat) -JEff

I am from Mesa, Arizona. But right now stationed in S. Korea, Uijongbu. Camp LaGuardia. -Jeff

Hey sweet, congradulations bro! You also post on MMA.tv? -Jeff

I am more rebelious I would have gone for the water if she told me no water break any way. hmmmm... I have been like that. Now I don't care let them go. The body needs to be rehydrated. I love the military ways of the martial arts community. lol @ breaking ranks and heirarchy. which is funny. About all of that. Thats actually were alot of that mindset came from. Because olot of the earlier instructors marines and airforcea nd navy and army up in wwII in that area came back. But they were used to the military ways so they incporated those in maratil arts. Also instructors with laungage barrier and such. So they just modled the military way of doing things so to speak. Kind of interesting. I say if your not happy htere and with the poeple just leave take back up muay thai or doing some other form of martial art. Belts done mean *! Unfortanetly alot of people in martial arts community either get there's and low standard of testing. LIke the nice get a black betl in a few months courses. Or buy a black belt, or just promote them selves. Either way if you have a good back ground in Mauy thai you can pretty much beat alot of black belts. As far as the black belt who said No Water! very ignorant of how the body works and what it needs in my opinion. I would talk tot he head instructor about it. You have other problems with her besides the no water thing? -Jeff

Agreed wiht the TJS and wolverine. BJJ is a great art. It doesn't claim to take on multiple attackers. But still very effective. Granted I think seeking out stragies for dealing with Muliple attackers is important. That is why there is cross trianing or MMA. -Jeff

good question. Neither its taught in both. both alot of principles for power generation are taught in sports also are in martal arts. They tie into each other. -Jeff

I shoould have addresed it to the guy who wrote his wc school fights full contact and he pretty sure he can take MT kicks with no problems. but I would have to scan back throught thread to find the poster. So if any one thinks this applys to them. Then it is probably for you. -Jeff

Drunken monkey makes very good points. How often do you think about martial arts in your every day life. Or as he was saying running and doing these extra excercises. You modifiy your work out routines based on martial art moves you actually do become a better fighter. Also working out the muscles getting the feel of them and getting them more cordinated does make you a better fighter. -Jeff

thanks. You do TaiJutsu treebranch. You under Masakai Hatsumi's group? -Jeff

yeah but no one had knowdlege of Jiu-JItsu back then. Same ufc rules and royce against alot of those apponents like Kimo and shamrock and he would get his * handed to him. But back then they gracies had a better visioin they new martial artist in America didn't have a good grasp on those aspects plus they were use to fighting diffrent styles with thoe rules created in the first ufc. Which was what no biting and poking out the eyes I believe. But you have your point you got to be more rounded. Back in the orginal UFC it was about martial artist. But now its evolved into what I would call martial atheletes.

But Jeet kune do does. There is no mulitple attacker art. Just concepts to deal with them. Still I don't care how bad some one is trained. Odds ares still against you. Hopefully they are cowards which they are because they are all jumping you. So there cowards at heart. But hopefully there skill level sucks to. As well as they aren't armed or high in number. But even then the odds are still against you. I see what you mean but still good arts. -Jeff

True some times I speak thinking the other understands or knows what I mean. -Jeff

You can still change the look but keep the same concept can't you? That is what I mean. Not every instance youc an shut down a grappler before he shot in and has a hold of you. So you would have to learn to drop your base and sprawl on top. Unless you two no of a diffrent option that you have worked against good college level wreslters or good grapplers in general that is effective for you. If so great lets hear it? I am open minded enough to try diffrent techniques and see what works for me. -Jeff

Oh cool, well good talkting to you again best wishes to you. -Jeff

Well going back to the guy who wrote the orginal question. yes there are styles that do Show a complete art? Self defense aspects meaning the four ranges, pressupre points, internal energy work, morality of karate, weapons both anicent and modern defense against modern ones. But how well they teach each catagory and aspect is very debateable.

What type of Jiu-JItsu? Japense, or Brazilian.

I am big fan of BJJ mainly the concept trianing and I actually really enjoy the sport aspects of it. The game of chess. And modifcations and such and combiinging with other arts its great for developing skill in that ground fighting range. Developing long, short, and ground fighting ragnes are important well least important to me. Yes I do find MMA and BJJ cocky against other arts. But there is prove of what they do. Big thing I like about the gracies I know alot of MA cummunity distains is there challange matches. Or the Gracie Challange period. They are willing to prove there art. -Jeff

Every one on this thread has good points on this subject. basically should have moratity in your trianing or heart. My Shaolin Kempo instructor had a nact at some how getting rid of the people he felt who were to abusive. He eitherr worked iwth them to help instil some ideas and see how they are doing. or if he felt they were to abusive at heart. He would neglect them or do several tactics were they would just quit. -Jeff

depends I heard several definetions of Ki or energy training. Its just for harder hit. Some of the methods is like what pro sprots players use like foot ball. Were they work out there core. and use there stomach muscles to throw the ball harder. basically usign gthe whole body. Stomach, lats alot of muscle groups in conjuntion to tie it in with the breathing. -jeff

Yet I love the claim of dillman students the UFC banned all his students because they didn't want nothing to do that "Deadly" stuff. Yeah I call bull *. I been to dillman seminars. He is good at what he does. But I consider it like Rod sakranski's combat ki moves. LIke what you saw of Discovery were the moves were set up. I have seen websites of some of his students teaching there classes with sparirng with pressure points. It would be intersting to actually see that class and someof them do that and more interesting to spar with them. From dilmans seminars and tapes that moves are set up by grabs and the oppent not really having intent with it. Meaning not pulling when grabithe wrist not pulling and intent to hit. There for the grab was the inent and stopped after that. So of course the moves will work better in those sceniro's. It would intersting to see no touch knock outs in self defense. Or on moments notice. with out being excuse the analogy I just thought it funny. "Powering up" Kamamaha!!!!!! lol! Seriously though I won't discredit dillman totally. He has done research on this subject of Pressure points and nerve work and TCM and its very intersting stuff to play around with. That I am grateful but not a big fan of it in actualy confrontations. But who knows, until I feel the evidence or shown to be proven wrong. I will remain a skeptic. -Jeff

Saying you think and sying you know based on experience is two diffrent things. Have you faught with your wing chun good Mauy thai guys and took thee leg kicks with no problem. Or is this a theroy you have? I like when people spout stuff off. I hopoe they have evidence to back it up. But even that its probably some story on the net. Alot can be debated. Thats why Love Chi practioiners that make outrageous claims because there instructer told them they can do this or chi can possiblly make you do that. Were is the evidence that b acks up the claim. Hopefully not some demo done by the chi/ki master to his students but won't do on any one else becasue the techniques are to "Deadly" or "Brutal" lol!

Alot of good principles in Wing chun, but again at heart I am a grappler so I would have to modify the wing chun to deal with those situations as I would train with other styles. I liked hte accoutn of the boxer against the WC practioner. interesgting! -JEff

Interesting thread. Both Treebranch and sevenstar have some good points. In Pride I remmeber they changed the rule were you can knee an opponent who is on all fours. Vanderli sivla quickly took advantage of that and ko'ed his oppenent. I think also comes to mind is the humanity in people. Alot of times people in comeption think striking like how they spar and so they react as such. Even if they spar with eye gouges and biteing techniques by padding up alot and using some sort of covering for the face so they can practiice such technquies. The humanity of people to not use them in competion takes over. Unless y our an * like Mike Tyson then its a diffrent story. That crazy mofo will bite you. As has been proven in the past. lol! training for compt nad street are diffrent. One is most likely in street fith your not going to fight a good calibur trained fighter. Weather it be boxer, wrestling or "martial artist" but who knows. Thats an unknown so that its one reaosn i like MMA you fight people who are trained. Your not playing "Tag: your not going light contact your in there to dominate and win adn test y our skills. Although you can't test every skill you learned based on the rules of that venue or event. Royce in the begging took those guys out of there element. ground work wasn't highly taught and nor was it as technicaly taught. Gracie family changed that. Also in tern gracie's have been losing lately. Why because wrestlers and people are learning the ground game enough to defend and get back into there element of stand up. Take Renzo vs. Henderson. MMA events are a vehicle to test your skills. You don't have to do an event though to be silled. but your training methods form eh fighers should be incorprated in TMA. some decent conditiong of the body, cardio and strength trianing. Pad work, and such. Also big thing I like about BJJ is the resistrance of the oppent to your techniques because he is trying to get at you too. Or even not necairlly trying to get at you maybe your working drills and hei coutnering or resisting a bit. It makes you work more nad find the little detals and the feel of hte opponent to make your moves work more effectly. I think that resistance or countering type philosophy and training method is not in TMA as much. I think personally alot of people like to stay in there own imaingary world. Reality sucks so me times. Alot of benefits come with MMA type training. Boxing is incorportated because boxers more then any body take hits give them back. Learn to move slip, weave and bob. which are importat aspect. Even though that alone won't save you. Your stances can lead you vulnerable for kicks to the legs or take downs. So you got to modify the moves. Same with JIu-Jitsu. Royler graice for example. quite a few guys played his game of grappling when he was so easily open for a hit. because he wasn't tight to his oppent or controling his body right. Kind of interesting. As well as he got beaten down by Sakuraba because of it. I think the person needs to modify and adjust there training. to be effective. One thing I like about MMA events you go against other partners of diffrent training methods or instructions. As oppesed to your own gym or dojo/dojang/kwoon/school or what ever you want to call it. but honestly neither MMA or TMA guys can get to cocky as far as training for street. Because in reality. Weapons involved, your kids or wife/husband maybe with you and the gun is pointed at them and the attacker is closer to them out of your reach. the scenerio factors alot of stuff in. suprise attack. Some one runs in throws elbow to back of your head when your distracted your out cold. Training in general is good. If you like what you do great. But if your talking training for the street. You can only train so much. Were not invicible. But if you want to test your skill against another trained person diffrent story. Or see which technqiues are more useful at the time again diffrent story between TMA and MMA. Just my opinion. -Jeff So