WolverineGuy

Yeah, I'm not sure what you're getting at either. Fight, self-defense, whatever...point is, you've never encountered them, and you're basing your opinion off of your ego.

I would once again like to point out that ANY MMA fighter is better conditioned than half the planet. The Gracie's made their mark in real fights...that's where their art started. Saying "if my instructor fought a gracie" is pointless becuase its a hypothetical situation that hasn't happened, and you have nothing to base it on. "It doesn't matter who the guy is" is just arrogance. There is ALWAYS someone better than you. My art, that I have a first dan black belt in, is entirely based on street effective self defense. I would never make any such claim that I could take anyone in a self defense situation/fight. If I can, I can...but I know there's always someone better than me. The Gracie's are a group of people I greatly admire, which I think is fairly obvious from the majority of my posts. Their art is far from perfect, but they revolutionized martial arts as we know it, through their technique and through their marketing of their art with the advent of UFC. It is widely accepted that Rickson is one of the best fighters in the world, and the rest of the Gracie's are no slouches. Say what you want, but you simply don't know until you fight them. Confidence is one thing. Arrogance, however, is just asking for trouble.

A lot of times, its kind of like burnout. Most underbelts spend all of their focus and energy trying to achieve black belt that when they get there, they just need a break. Some of them also don't realize the magnitude of what's AFTER first degree black, and its just overwhelming.

Bump on that. There are a large number of people that just do it to get in shape...some people do it because they love competing...others just cuz they have nothing better to do.

I would bet money that it would take a lot longer than thirty seconds. I'm not saying they're invincible, but thirty seconds, I just don't see it happening unless your guy is armed.

Me too, same problem!

I'm sorry, did he just say the brock lock? I'm sorry, that "submission hold" is ridiculously unrealistic. Assuming he could ever put it on someone in real life, there's no way he'd ever be able to hold it on someone.

Easy on the namecalling, guys. Let's not get out of hand with flames and what not.

Actually, I've seen all three guys billed as the gracie killer...although sakuraba bills himself as the Gracie Hunter more often.

Very true...its good to not do two arts which are similar, because on test day, you're gonna rely on what comes natural, and that may be from the wrong art!

Hey, I'm a HUGE WWE fan. I'm just living in reality. Sakuraba has an extensive realistic submission background. You want to see pro wrestlers in MMA? Give me Angle or Lesnar...two people that would probably still lose, but would have a fighting chance. Saying RVD could win a match because he does a few flips and rolls is like saying Michelle Kwan is going to be the next K1 champ because she can pull off a triple axel. Now, some pro wrestling moves (in fact, most) are BASED in some realistic martial arts capacity. That doesn't mean that any of them could form a realistic strategy, or could apply any of the moves in a realistic attack fashion due to their training which, in design, doesn't hurt their opponent. You can sit here and talk all day about how these guys can get hurt, put it all on the line, yada yada; the fact of the matter is, they are ENTERTAINERS. They put it on the line like a trapeze artist does, in that they COULD get hurt, but more than likely, they will not. It's all staged entertainment, they don't go out to hurt their opponents. All techniques are applied in a way to PROTECT their opponent. They're probably some of the best conditioned athletes on the planet (and it would be hard to argue that), but unless they have some sort of competitive fighting background, they don't stand a chance.

My god...I think my intelligence just lowered.

So can most five year olds.

A lot of my friends are self defense experts now that they do tae bo.

Studied...as in past tense. It was somewhat McDojo-ish, but it did give me a fairly good start on the basics of the Martial Arts. Their website is https://www.sanchinsystems.com. As for Kalkinodo, it was created by Master Jeff Arnold...since you do Modern Arnis, you may have heard of him. It has since become the baby of Master Rick Whitman in Flint, Michigan (who coined the current name, which means the way of proper movement).

I'm a firm believer in cross training. My first sensei told me that cross training was a bad idea and very useless. I now realize it was because that art was ridiculously limiting in any application (i.e. McDojo). In summary, if your goal is to have a complete game, cross train.

Saw Crokop take on a lucha libre wrestler on Pride Bushido...under a minute, he knocked the wrestler out with one kick. He is a bad, bad fighter.

Wise words, for certain.

*cough* Sakuraba *cough* He was a submission wrestler though, didn't know he did Judo. The judo guy that you are thinking of (assuming I'm wrong about Sakaraba) is Hidehiko Yoshida, who beat Royce a while back...although that's shrouded in controversey. Rematch in two days. Crokop...isn't that his nickname? Mirko Filipovic...yeah, that's his name. Completely forgot about him, he's awesome.

Off the top of my head? Frank Mir. Although any of them with a kickboxing background would be on par with RVD.

I'm not so sure about him getting eaten alive...he definitely had conditioning on his side. But unfortunately, we'll never know.

First of all, they're not related. Second, MMA is a lot different than middle weight karate champ, as UFC has proven. Third, I've seen plenty of guys as agile or moreso than RVD or Jean Claude.

On a side note, its amazing how hot this topic is...all it takes is a bunch of guys arguing and you get about one post per minute.

Bruce Lee was very clear that to be a complete fighter you had to be able to grapple. As for treebranch's last post, I agree wholeheartedly. Without knowing what its like to get hit, people are likely to freeze or panic. Combat MA's aren't the be all/end all of self defense, but those guys will not panic when hit, and are much better conditioned to fight.

I'd respond, but I'm not quite sure what he said. Matt Furey said what?