Treebranch

I don't see to may Krav Maga practitioners in the ring so Muy Thai for ring and Krav Maga for street hands down.

Just use a hanbo, there are really great techniques you can do with a hanbo.

TJS said, "you mean like one of they key elements of MMA.....BJJ" Yeah Muy Thai doesn't take speed and strength, or Shoot Fighting or Wrestling. The only MA I agree that strength isn't the most important aspect in the techniques is probably BJJ, but indurance is still a big factor. Besides BJJ is not a MMA, it is it's own Style. My point is that it will be highly unlikely that you'll be doing MIXED MARTIAL ARTS at an old age, and you will chose a MA that doesn't take a whole strength and indurance to be effective in. You don't want to risk injury at that age you know. Sorry guys the fact is MOST, not all MA's age out.

To get my own animated series made in Japan, and while I'm there, to train with Hatsumi Sensei at his Bujinkan Dojo.

Well if you have no choice, and the guy wants to kill you, you have to do what you can to survive. You also just have to accept that your going to get cut. If the attack is all of a sudden keeping your distance is a good idea. Find something that you can use as a weapon. If you can't find a weapon, well I hope you trained for this type of situation. Here's something that may work. If the knife is in his right hand, and he does a thrusting stab at your stomach move to the outside of the arm holding the knife. Grab the wrist and arm holding the knife with both hands. When he feels you have a hold of his arm he will more than likely retract the knife towards himself to get it back. At that moment use your whole body while moving with him and give him the knife, right in the throat. He will essentially be cutting himself. Don't let go no matter what. After you've cut him (still holding his arm with both of yours) kick him in the groin, bar his arm down, with your left hand pushing on his shoulder and your right hand holding the knife hand by the wrist. He will be in a bent over position, kick him with your right foot, right to the temple. Place your left knee between his shoulder and his tricep, drop your weight, sending him down and levering the arm. Break the arm and take the knife. What you do from there is up to you.

I always interpreted it as mind of matter accompanied by perfect technique.

Sevenstar said, "you can put judo into that same category, and my coach is 73... I can't do squat to him on the ground when he doesn't want me to. same goes for standing." So your 73 year old teacher is a MMA? That's impressive. The point I was trying to make is that there are MA's that don't rely so much on strength, and rely more on technique. To me that's more valuable, because we are all going to get old some day. I don't want to have to rely on my speed and strength to effectively defend myself when I get old.

1Onefighting said,"Like, for instance, they have no bat, but they have a wicked takedown. What do you do? Thrash like a hippie in water, or swim like a shark? Swim like a shark, of course. You never answered my questions, I guess I already know your answer to them.

Well in the case of my teacher the one that was in the War, he stressed the importance of Hand to Hand because, there are times when the enemy attacks and YOU RUN OUT OF AMMO and the enemy is charging you with a bayonet, you know you do run out of bullets sometimes. To answer your question about feudal Japan, they fought hand to hand when they were to close to use their swords, you had to know how to grapple upright with your swords, or sometimes you weapon would get knock away from you. In many cases you clashed with the enemy and you had to get in close enough to snuff his attack, that's where hand to hand skills come in to effect. You had to know how to strike and grapple effectively to create enough space to cut or stab etc... It wasn't a bunch of individual duals going on in the battle field it was an all out brawl, with hand to hand swords, spear, axes etc.. Training is different for different reasons, do you know how to fight someone if they have a bat, and you don't? How about a knife? How about a crobar? That's where Combat Styles apply to the street today, you never know what someone might attack you with.

"Single leg..or a hip toss....or a shoulder throw....or them pulling you into gaurd...or a sweep...or the billions of other ways to get someone on the ground...a double leg is usually a wrestlers choice..." In my case it really depends on how big and strong the guy is, I'm pretty heavy and can grapple, the double leg is the hardest in my opinion. If you feel yourself being take in double leg take down don't fight it, relax with it, it will cause the attacker to over shoot, and you can take advantage of it.

Well I've been in fights and The Combat Stuff worked better than my kickboxing did, so by that logic I have to assume my teacher knew his stuff. My San Soo instructor was a street fighter and fought in Viet Nam, this guy was a real thug.

If you want to compete in UFC, Pride, and these type of matches, sure go with what those MA's study. If you want to study MA's because it interests you, study what you want. If you want to study weapons and Combat, study Combat Styles. Why do I study Martial Arts is the question to ask yourself, that will lead you to the style that best suits you. Countering a BJJ fighter on the street, comes down to who's smarter. All you really have to worry about is that double leg take down, it's pretty easy to get out of the standing stuff. More than likely I'm not going to fight a competitive fighter on the street anyway, and I have no desire to fight in the ring, I have nothing to prove.

Well I wouldn't study under someone who has never been in a fight. Every instructor I ever had was either a war veteran, or had fought a lot in his youth and learning Martial Artist kept him from fighting. I wouldn't study Sport Martial Arts from someone who has never been in a fight, no.

I have friends who study with the machados, it's great for the ground.

1Onefighting said, Who has more experience? Someone who learned from someone who learned from someone who learned from an experienced fighter, or that experienced fighter himself? I would say someone who has studied his Art for the last 40 years, has more to teach, than a fighter in his prime. As in any Art it takes a lot longer to be a Master than it does to be contender.

JohnnyS said, "Where's your proof of the effectiveness of Combat Martial Arts ? Oh, you mean anecdotes and legends ? Yeah feudal Japan is just myth and legend, there's no history on the subject of Combat (Being very sarcastic of course). Come on, how can you dismiss hundreds of years of fighting and not come to the conclusion that these people have more experience than some prize fighter?

Check out as many schools as you can from your list, it looks like a pretty good list. I also think, if know why you want to study Martial Arts it would be helpful for making a good decision. If you are small certain Combat Martial Arts might be appropriate or if you want to complete there are a lot of great Martial Arts to choose from. Good Luck.

I don't think anyone doubts Muay Thai leg kicks coming from Lawler-Spratt.

Study stand up at another school, or maybe a local college has boxing or karate. If it's important to you and you feel your are not getting it there, by all means.

Jiujitsu Fighter said this,"stop trying to find holes in bjj, insulting and criticizing (in a bad way) the art, won't make you feel better about yourself and your innefective art forms." They locked the thread "Multiple Opponents and BJJ Tactics", but I had to respond to this. JF if you are a true practitionar of BJJ, you should be finding the holes and trying to fill them. No Art is perfect, because perfect is an ideal not a reality. You should thank people for bringing you the weakness of an Artform to your attention, not telling you is more cruel than the truth.

Beer-monster you have a great name, wish I had thought of it. I like the question your proposing and it is valid. I study Budo Taijutsu and we always take into consideration the type terrain you may be fighting in. I wouldn't want to go to the ground if I'm near a cliff, or on a roof, or any high place I may roll off of. If your fighting in a rocky area, by a river and such it would really inhibit a ground figther. Ground fighting is smart in many ways, they take your weapons away and slowly constrict you. It works great in the ring and in many cases on a one on one type fight, but it is definitely limited.

No doubt Gracie is a great fighter, he's an incredible BJJ fighter. The fact of the matter is that no one is invincible, and he has lost in the ring just like many other great fighters. Logic will tell you if he lost in the ring, what makes people think he might not lose on the street as well. The difference being you can't tap out on the street, if the guy is a killer. There are guys out there that are so tough and mental messed up that there is no predicting the outcome. People on the streets have weapons, let's take guns out this equation. Some guy I knew in college told me a story about the indians in El Salvador that had to resort to a life of crime to survive. They pick pocket and mug people, they work in teams. They also carry a razor blade in their mouth to cut you with if you resist them, if you chase them they chew it and spit it at your face. My point is no one can make that claim, I especially don't think Gracie would make the claim that he could beat anyone on the street in the street.

JohnnyS said, " would think that someone who had trained in only one style all their life would be more predicatable. E.g. You'd know that a wing-chun guy would have bad takedown defense, or a wrestler bad punches." Yeah if the announcers at a competition told you his style and you knew his style, I agree with you. If you have a confrontation on the street with Wing-Chun guy by the time you found out it be too late. I agree with WC Strayder some MMA practitioner think they have the recipe to success, but your not Mark Kerr , Ruas, or Belfort. Don't look at their results and assume just because you are following in their footstep your going to even be one tenth as effective. MMA is it's own style now, it's a sport and the recipe to win this Sport is MMA. MMA have proven themselves in the ring and they came from the ring. Historically Combat Martial Arts have proven themselves in the Battlefield and the streets, MMA hasn't. So when you go around claiming that MMA is more effective on the street than a Combat Martial Art, where's your proof? All you have to point to is UFC, and I'm very sorry to inform you, that it is not the street.

JohnnyS I think what Shotokanwarrior said is obvious, the ring breaks your fall, they don't nail those boards down. There's bounce to it. You don't think there's any difference between the floor of the ring and concrete?

You study Krav Maga? From what I've seen it looks like a very straight forward, brutal style. KM is a MMA that they decided to name their own in Israel, correct? Do you enjoy it, and do you think it prepares you for the street or for the ring?