JohnnyS

Treebranch, As far as I recall they did not stop the match at all for the fence - I think you might have your fights mixed up. Secondly, as has already been said, what more could Kimo have done in a streetfight that he didn't do in that fight? Thirdly, clothing makes a huge difference in a fight. If Kimo was wearing streetclothes he would have been much easier to sweep, control and finish.

Well if it was a streetfight then it's also reasonable to assume that Kimo would have been wearing clothes - hence making him easier to choke.

The fighters that have learned how to handle grapplers all now grapple. No-one who fights in Pride or UFC is a pure striker. I've posted above that there is a difference between a sport fight and a streetfight and what some of those differences are. There is also a difference between women's self-defense and what a man would do.

The only reason Royce took his time to finish his opponents was because HE HAD TIME and he wanted to do it safely (i.e. not give his opponent ANY chance to escape or hurt him).

shotokan_fighter, Where does this grappling come from? I ask because ten years ago no-one even thought of grappling, then the UFC came along and there are articles in Black Belt magazine "Secret groundfighting techniques of shotokan". It was a joke: they were saying "horse-stance" is the same as the guard therefore we've got groundwork. Ridiculous. And if you think you can stop someone from clinching you then you're dreaming. What if you're in a pub or bar and someone grabs you or tackles you. Now you're in a clinch. Let's see you chudan-tzuki out of that.

I think you're being naive shotokan_fighter. Different arts have different specialities e.g. BJJ for groundwork, kali for weapons etc. If you want to be a well-rounded fighter then you need to take the skills from the arts that specialise. Let's say you got in a fight with a rugby boy and he grabbed you and you both fell over. He's on top of you and punching you - so now what? If you'd bothered doing even a few months of BJJ you'd have a very good chance of coming out unhurt or even victorious. By sticking with just one art and range such as shotokan, you don't have the skills to deal with this situation. It's the same as a BJJ-only guy getting into a knife-fight - even a bit of kali would help him (at the very least give him a basic list of do's and don'ts).

The great thing about MMA is that it does allow the testing of techniques and strategies in an environment where you aren't going to get killed if you blow it (since you can tap, the ref can step in or your corner can throw in the towel). There are things that MMA doesn't allow for e.g. clothes, fight psychology, how to kick the fight off etc. However these things can be tested and trained in a realistic manner also (see Geoff Thompson's videos with some of his training methodologies). If you can get something to work in a MMA match then you can certainly get it to work in a streetfight. You'll definitely have an edge since you're used to the pressure, used to thinking while under attack, you're fit and you know what works from having done it in competition and training. There are some techniques that won't work in a MMA match that will work in a fight, and these things should not be neglected if you're interested in self-defence e.g. techniques that use clothes, sucker punches etc.

There is a difference between a streetfight and a sport fight, no doubt. However the article tries to dismiss the effectiveness of grappling in a streetfight because of "vital point strikes" and the environment. Gimme a break. Vital point attacks are not going to so easily stop someone like Royce Gracie or anyone who is motivated and used to pain. Does he really think that if he does one of his "vital point strikes" Royce or anyone else used to fighting is going to squeal, let go and give up the fight - Only in the author's fantasies. As for the environment, the grappler will have the advantage because he can fight in close and will probably be better at takedowns meaning the person relying only on "vital point strikes" will most probably be the one with broken glass in his back, or hitting his head on a cinder block.

Yeah, I had one on Saturday. I was doing BJJ and went terrible - the worst thing was that I tapped to this guy one belt lower (he had just back from Brazil). I just grappled really badly. I thought about it all weekend though, and it really reinforced a couple of things to me that I was doing wrong. Monday night was a completely different story. There's a saying "You always learn more from your defeats than your victories" and it's so true because you really dwell on your defeats.

And another thing: Why do people think "reality" is the front-yard of some redneck's trailer-park home e.g. Old washing machines, cinder blocks etc, beer bottles etc? You'd think from reading the posts by people who are against grappling that everywhere you go the ground is strewn with broken glass, bottles and used syringes. Think about if for a second anyway, in a fight between a grappler and striker, who's going to end up on their back if the fight goes to the ground ?

Sounds like he's bitter and looking for excuses. If he could so easily defeat a Gracie or any grappler using "vital point strikes", then why doesn't he enter a competition and try it? Why would NHB fighters ignore these so-called "vital point strikes"? Perhaps because ehy know that they don't work against someone who is motivated and doesn't mind a little bit of pain.

BJJ came from Judo. Maeda was a Judo champion, although the terms Judo and Ju-jitsu were interchangeable at the time. Maeda used to compete in no-rules fights at the time and wasn't allowed to use the name Judo so he used JJ which is where the term "jiu-jitsu" probably came from.

I don't know what you're saying.

If you only practice kata like TKD and most Japanese karate schools, then it's pretty much worthless. If you practice it as Okinawan schools teach it, with the bunkai and two-man kata's, then it's not worthless. Kata is (or at least should be) a way to record drills. Just as you do drills in BJJ and wrestling, so you should do drills in karate - and kata is just the method used to remember those drills.

It depends on your definition of "combative". Terry O'Neal, editor of Fighting Arts, is a highly graded Shotokan karateka with a lot of "street" experience from working as a bouncer. So obviously there are some combative aspects to it.

aikido comes from aki-jitsu - a style of ju-jitsu.

The kick is more of a way to set up the takedown by forcing the person to withdraw their forward leg thus bringing both of their feet together. There is also the use of the heel stomp when getting back to your feet as used by Rickson against Funaki. There are some strikes in BJJ, but it's a grappling based art more than a striking art.

Treebranch is correct. BJJ will show you how to set up your strikes on the ground, and how to avoid them when doing a takedown but that's about it.

Muay Thai.

Let's remember that in 1812 the British had their attention and troops focused on the Napoleonic Wars. If they'd turned all their attention on the U.S. it would have gone back to being a colony.

You're right, but there is essentially no difference in the jiu-jitsu between the various teams. Some people like simple games, some like using all the new stuff, some like to concentrate on the Vale-Tudo aspect, others the self-defence. It's all good, and it's all pretty much the same. I just don't want people thinking "Oh, the BJJ guys aren't as good as the GJJ guys" or thinking there is a difference between the two, other than who's actually doing it.

It's an annoying argument, because Rigan Machado was taught by Rolls and Carlos Gracie Jnr, as well as training with Rickson and his brothers. So why would Machado BJJ be any different to what Royce or Rickson is doing? Each fighter will have his own style, for example Rigan Machado's game is very different to Jean-Jacque Machado's style, but it's all still BJJ. The Machado's originally called their art Carlos Gracie Jnr Jiu-Jitsu, but had to change the name after Rorion threatened to sue them, so they called it Machado BJJ. There was actually no such thing as BJJ until the Brazilian's came to America to teach and found out that Rorion would sue them if they used the name Gracie, so they instead called it Brazilian Jiu-jitsu.

And BJJ = GJJ, unless you ask Rorion

It wasn't about proving myself better than anyone else, it was about wanting to continue doing groundwork. These people claimed to do groundwork so I went there to train. It's as simple as that. I was very polite the whole time.

I did private lessons with my BJJ instructor who lived over 1000 kilometers away. I decided I'd go to a TJJ school because that was the closest thing (I thought). I didn't go in there with an attitude of "getting into a fight", I just wanted to work on what I'd been training. I did the class and at the end asked if anyone would do some grappling. When I finished the brown and black belt I was given a lecture from the instructor telling me I needed to learn 300 throws(or something ridiculous) before doing groundwork. I also went to Judo schools with a similar result but they were extremely friendly.