JohnnyS

Actually, knowing something about BJJ does hold relevance to the discussion. The original poster wrote "I had long heard that BJJ blackbelts were awesome and all but DAMN" It's well documented that BJJ black belts are awesome grapplers (look around the 'net) for more stories, or go to some forums and ask. But you, knowing nothing about BJJ decide "It's not possible that ALL BJJ black belts are awesome" and give us a lecture on stereotyping. What you say might be correct if you had even some anecdotal evidence to the contrary, but you don't. You don't even know anything about BJJ, but YOU decide it cannot possibly be true that bjj black belts are awesome (because there are no absolutes right?). If you knew anything at all about BJJ, you'd truly know how ridiculous you sound. Go do some homework.

Go to bjj.org, there might be something there. Or post on https://www.mma.tv in the BJJ forum.

So you know nothing about BJJ, yet you decide to waste our time and give us a lesson on political correctness and how there are no absolutes in life? Thanks, but the only person that looks like an idiot is you

Listen idiot, Do you even know any BJJ black belts, or have you even trained in BJJ? Or are you just trying to play silly word games in the vain hope that you might win this because you can't win in a fight?

You guys are a joke. >So was your contention. It wasn't my contention - it was the original posters belief that I (and everyone else I've met) happen to agree with. I have a belief, along with probably every other person that does BJJ or Judo or any other grappling art, that BJJ black belts are awesome grapplers. How can I possibly prove that every BJJ black belt is awesome - and who defines what awesome is? I can't obviously, but since I've been in the game for a long time and have NEVER heard of a bad one, that I think it's safe to assume that when people say that BJJ black belts are awesome then they are correct and they aren't making a false sterotype. Stop playing word games and go train.

How about YOU tell us of a bad BJJ black belt? I'm not going to get into an argument about logic over this - it's pointless. It's common knowledge that BJJ black belts are awesome grapplers - and unless you can point one out who isn't (good luck), then you don't have a leg to stand on.

You're taking political correctness (i.e. sterotyping being bad) to a ridiculous degree. It's a well known fact that BJJ grades are hard to come by, and that BJJers are excellent grapplers on the ground. Many people have said that BJJ black belts are awesome and the original poster also said this. You're point about stereotyping is ridiculous simply because all BJJ black belts ARE awesome ! Like I've said, I've never heard of a bad one, and I've been involved with the art for over twelve years. I know including myself in this may sound narcisistic, but to the normal martial artist or even to an excellent grappler, the same views would be held about BJJ black belts.

Then you obviously have no idea about BJJ.

By the way, I've been involved with BJJ for over 12 years and have *never* heard of a bad BJJ black belt. Can't say the same for most other arts though. BJJ is as tough as it gets when it comes to belt standards, so if someone is a black belt then yes, they are awesome. If someone is even a purple belt then are are extremely good.

Cybren, You're right. Everyone knows BJJ black belts are easy to get and don't mean anything - just like TKD black belts

And Busta beat Lindland (silver medalist at the Olympics). And Frank Shamrock beat Kevin Jackson. Wrestling provides invaluable skills for MMA, but needs to be supplemented with submissions and guard work from BJJ (for when you come across a better wrestler), and striking.

Goshinman, I did read your post and I agreed with it. The reason I brought up wrestling and Sambo was to show that not all the techniques in BJJ come from TJJ or Judo (i.e. BJJ IS NOT a subset of TJJ - it has evolved into it's own art).

You know, I haven't met too many guys who bash TMA's. Sometimes it happens, but the guys doing the bashing have all trained in those arts anyway -e.g. sometimes I'll bash TKD, but I've also got a black belt in it and feel qualified to pass comment. As far as Judo, all the BJJ people I've met have great respect for Judo players and would love to learn more throws.

BJJ has added leglocks from Sambo, and takedowns from wrestling. Look at any good BJJ team and they train wrestling takedowns i.e. BTT and Barra Gracie training with Darrel Gholar. The Machado brothers also integrate a lot of wrestling into their BJJ - especially Rigan. If BJJ is just a spin-off from TJJ, then where are the TJJ fighters? Why can't TJJ mirror BJJ's success?

The thing that annoys me with comments like 'BJJ is a subset of TJJ' is that it misrepresents BJJ because BJJ is its own art. BJJ has taken from Judo, wrestling, sambo etc and created its own art with its own strategies and tactics for both fighting and grappling. Although an armbar is still an armbar, the set-ups, strategies, tactics and the reasons behind doing things in certain ways are different from TJJ. It's as if the people from TJJ are trying to ride the coat-tails of BJJ's success and add to it with their own superiority by saying "We've got everything in BJJ plus more". If this were really the case, then we'd see more (or indeed any) successful TJJ competitors at ADCC or in MMA surely?

Tibby, Don’t you think it strange that not one champion or fighter of note has come from TJJ? We’ve had BJJ fighters, Sambo fighters, and wrestlers as champions of the UFC’s, yet no TJJ. This surprises me considering that BJJ is just a subset of TJJ. Also, since TJJ has striking and all the groundwork of BJJ (since BJJ is a subset of TJJ as you said), why would they need any cross-training?

Tibby, Could you do me a favour and list any ADCC or NHB champions who are pure TJJ? Thanks, John

BJJ definately. There are many tall skinny world-champions in BJJ e.g. Comprido, Roleta, Royce Gracie etc.

Am I the only one who thinks this guy should get used to the pain? That you can't win a fight or defend yourself if the pain from a block discourages you? You should welcome pain - use it toughen you up. There's a difference with pain between discomfort and injury. Soak it up. As my karate instructor used to say before we did arm-pounding "Pain builds character".

Goshinman, Although we call that move stocks, you can transition to it from the Crucifix hold (jigoku-jime), or from when some tries to grab for your legs and you get an overhook and an underhook.

I'll also point out that Vince Morris, British pressure-point karate master, visited my BJJ instructor while he was in Australia to see if pressure points would work in close against a grappler. He found out that they didn't.

Hey, I don't believe the 400-0 record either. As far as Rickson tapping out Saulo - are you sure that's crap? I thought that was true. Rickson also taps out the top BJJ black belts, including the Machados, Margarida, Nino etc and this comes from those black belts who were there and were tapped.

Drunken Monkey is correct.

Sano, That's not a cross-face. That's a neck-crank. A cross-face is when your bicep is against your opponent's face and your forearm is either under your opponent's neck or under their head. It's used for controlling a person's spine and also to stop the person turning into you. It's also commonly used in conjuction with a sprawl in wrestling, or from side-control in BJJ. I wouldn't rely on pro-wrestling to get your terminology.

I didn't doubt his skills, except in regards to tapping the Machados. I'm just saying that there are a lot of stories about Gokor not sticking to the truth e.g. winning his first NHB fight at 9 yrs of age !