JohnnyS

It took me over twelve years for my black belt in BJJ and that's training at least 3-4 times per week. Still, that's about average although nowadays people seem to be getting better, faster.

Jeff has hit the correct.

I honestly don't remember the last time I wasn't injured. Currently bad shoulders, herniated disc in my lower back and dodgy knees.

Have any of you guys seen a video that the LAPD put out about 10-15 years ago on knife attacks? If you get the chance to see it then take it. It demonstrates how dangerous a knife is and shows some footage of people being stabbed, as well as the wounds afterwards.

WC Strayder, What makes you think you'll even see the knife if it's concealed and he starts stabbing you with it? From reports of people who have been stabbed, they didn't even realise they were being stabbed and just thought they were being punched until they looked down afterwards. Most of the knife defense you see (and I'm not tlaking about karate or kung-fu knife defense) involves controlling the attacker, which is what grappling does.

I'm so sick of "BJJ is no good on the street because every fight you have will be against multiple, weapon-wielding opponents and the ground will be covered with glass and syringes" garbage. I've not had one fight against multiple opponents, nor against a weapon wielding opponent, and I've been in plenty of fights in pubs and clubs whilst either drinking or working as a bouncer. I've also had plenty of BJJ training partners who had successfully used BJJ in the street against multiple opponents, even ones with weapons. Sorry, but the street is unpredictable and anyone who says they can "guarantee" success against an armed opponent, or multiple opponents, or armed multiple opponents is lying or delusional.

Venezolano's idea is the best. Say he's got his right arm around your neck. Put your right arm over his left shoulder so your right shoulder is against his throat. Now come up onto your feet and drive your shoulder into his neck and you'll be choking him. You may want to use your left hand on his right elbow so his arm can't follow you and try to pull your head out if you want. Another thing to do is not let him close his legs. So if he tries to guillotine you, quickly pass his guard to the opposite side of your head. He can't finish you unless you're in guard.

Anyone who dismisses size and strength as important in a fight is being foolish. There is a reason that weight divisions exist in combat sports such as boxing, judo, sambo and bjj.

Definately don't do Judo or BJJ. My fingers are a mess - swollen joints and constantly aching.

I'll add my two cents: Firstly, I think if there were better techniques and tactics out there for fighting than what MMA fighters are currently doing, they'd be absorbed by the MMA community immediately. MMA is all about "absorbing what is useful, discarding that which isn't". It's not about politics - so you're not going to have a MMA school they won't do a certain type of technique that's been proven because their master didn't show them. Secondly, I don't thnk there are many absolutes. Regarding knives and grappling, sure you don't want to be clinch the guy and get stabbed, but being in close and controlling your opponent and his limbs is what most disarms are trying to achieve anyway. If the guy has his knife concealed, at least if you tie him up and keep him off balance he might not have a chance to draw his weapon before you throw him on his head, or break his arm. I've heard of many stories of people being in fights and punching-on with their opponent and not realising they were being stabbed - they just thought the other guy was punching them in the chest. So staying at arms-length isn't necessarily a better option than begin in close when it comes to defense against a knife.

If you'll note I never said anything about armbars or takedowns or mount being specific to BJJ. I asked how many traditional styles teach the strategy of takedown, attain mount, punch and armbar or choke the same way as BJJ?

Warp Spider, What else would you call throw, groundcontrol and choking other than grappling? That's the very essence of grappling - look at Gracie in Action and that's pretty much all the Gracie's did.

How many traditional styles teach a strategy of takedown, mount and armbar the same way as BJJ?

Are you talking about MMA competition?

three60roundhouse, I believe most jiu-jitsu instructors would call their school a jiu-jitsu school but also teach an MMA class on the side.

Agreed, but against a person who isn't going to feel these techniques, how exactly do they give you an edge? More importantly, does their use give an advantage over someone who doesn't train them (i.e. someone who trains mma) ?

How about a straight armbar once it's on? Or clock choke (Relogio)?

The point of this thread though was "Do these techniques give you an edge in a streetfight". I'm saying that a lot of these won't because in a fight your opponent will have adrenaline pumping though him, and possibly alcohol or drugs and so not feel pinches, or shirt pulling, or spitting, or even punches. I've been headbutted, elbowed, kicked and punched in fights and not felt a thing until much later, so the techniques mentioned above are hardly going to be "fight-stoppers".

People on drugs can definately hit you hard - it just means that they don't feel it when you hit them. I've seen plenty of people on amphetamines or coke getting the snot bashed out of them and keep fighting.

My 2 cents, A lot of those techniques were made illegal to allow the UFC to become a legal sport by the Nevada Boxing Commission. They were put in there to make the sport appear more civilized, not because they are so deadly. I mean, how many professional fighters are going to tap because someone is pinching them, or pulling their hair, or grabbing their clavicle. I'll also point out that a lot of those techniques aren't fight stoppers in a streetfight either. do you think some guy who is high on drugs is going to be concerned about any of the things above or someone holding his clothes, or spitting at him? Regarding the stomping techniques, if you stomp someone in a streetfight, you may as well pull out a knife and stab them, because the courts will see it the same way.

TreeBranch, Are you suggesting moving off on a 45 degree angle and backwards? That might be fine, but how can you attack? You can't put any power into a strike if you are moving backwards - at least not enough to KO someone. To KO or even damage someone you need the weight on the front foot. As soon as you do this you are vulnerable to a shoot.

TJS, That's correct. To get a triangle on a bigger person, you need to get BOTH distance and angle. If their back is broad you can sometimes have trouble getting the cut, therefore you move backwards and then get the angle. The distance makes it easier to cut across the neck, and also makes it harder for them to stack you. The angle makes it easier to get the cut across the back of the neck, especially if you have short or stocky legs, and makes it easier to convert to an armbar by throwing your left leg over his head. Here's a set-up for triangle with the important steps: Opponent opens your legs and puts one hand inside your legs. Quickly lock your ankles behind his back and pull down on his head with both hands. Squeeze your knees together (so he can feel the pressure on his shoulders with your knees) and undo your ankles. Put your left foot in his hip (still squeezing your knees) and move your hips backwards, all the time pulling down on his head. After you've moved back so he can't easily stack you, angle your body off to your right. Then cut down on the back of his neck with your right calf, hook your left leg over your right ankle, get his arm across his body, pull his head down and raise your hips.

Make sure your leg is cutting down on the back of their neck, not down their back. This is the most common problem with triangle. When you go for the triangle you need to angle your body off to the side to make it easier to get the "cut" across his neck.

Again, what's a "head mount"?

Or even better, just drop into horse stance and elbow them in the back of the head!