TJS

Yes had it been an NHB fight the Jiu jitsu practicioners proabably would have been better prepared. it just shows that Judo has more effective throws. mainly because they spend so much time live sparring with them I would imagine.

Treebranch-If I remember correctly the matches were grappling without strikes because they were competing to show whitch would be more effective for the Policeto train in and were sort of competing for that position.. Obviously Most Police officers would rather subdue people without strikes if possible.

Thats because San Shou is basically Ameature Muay Thai. After The chinnese Kung Fu practiconers were severely beaten time and again several decades ago by Thai fighters they invented "san Shou" The main diffrence is there are Throws in San Shou but they usually dont allow elbows or knees and they wear alot of pads. here is a good write up on the history of Kung Fu vs Muay Thai and the creation of San da/San shou http://crane.50megs.com/index6d.htm

Genki Sudo, Duane Ludwig, BJ Penn, Caol Uno, yves edwards, are all extremly talented fighters. and there are a few others

A perfect example of why Muay Thai Has transitioned well in to NHB fighting while others havent...

Judo owned.

I Agree there are alot of diffrences between the UFC and a "street fight" .

who said it should be? the point was that Most Martial artist that train in pure standup will train to those that concentrate on grappling because it's easier to achive that range. Your turning the argument into something it's not. You say you wouldent want gloves? let me ask you how many NHB fight's you have been in? How many bare knuckle Full contact matches have you been in?

And it also makes breaking your hand alot harder...it was quite common back in the day. The bottom line is diffrent people are a hindered by diffrent rules....not every rule in there is made to favor a grappler like some people would make it out to be.

good points 1 on one...everyone likes to ignore the small advantages the striker gets. There are plenty of strikers that do well today and you dont see them crying about how Strikers are at a disadvantage..you see them knocking people out.

not it dosent if you werent closing you eyes to the facts you would see that.

cool, like is said there are karate schools out there that have a very good focus. unfotrunatly many in America do not...but that goes for alot of stlyes not just karate. Good luck with training.

yes Royce won becuase he exposed the weakness of most MA' Thus he was better at fighting his opponets. that the point. Dont tell me was was just "better" almost every single one of his opponets was considerably larger and stronger than him and plenty of them were champions in their own stlyes. Royce isint one of the best grapplers in the world either..they chose him because he was the "kid brother" and to show that even he could do it.

Well It depends on the orientation of the school but there are two main reasons i think MT would have an advante on the street in comparision to American Kickboxing or Full contact Karate. 1) Low kicks-Low kicks are almost always going to be the most effective in a street situation and MT fighters can deliver devestation ones. Most American kickboxers or Karateka spar with only kicks above the waist. 2) Clinch- The clinch is very important in a Street fight because alot of untrained people will simply try and Cover the Distance and Smother you and "dirty" box, Thai Fighters Spend alot of time working the clinch and Have Devestating knees and elbows from this position. Where as most kickboxers/krateka spend little time training/sparring in the clinch. dont get me worng there are plent of good karate schools out there and it just depnds on what they work on...but the above statments are generalizations of most schools imo. as far as the diffrences between American kickboxing and MT as a sport -American kickboxing is boxing rules with kicks above the waist. -MT allows leg kicks, knees, elbows, clinching and sometimes throws.

So only "strikers" can bite? A grappler can bite just as well if not better (because of positioning). Find one example of one being used effectivly in the first few UFC's where they were legal. A thorat strike is only going to be effective on the ground and from a dominate position. when you are standing up everyone knows to keep their chin tucked and it's hard enough to hit that. Ok this one I will admit gives a favor to the "grappler" in many cases. This is what Royce used to do to some of his opponets, it is an attack from the gaurd that is Utalized by GRAPPLERS while working the gaurd. Headbutts were The Wrestlers tool, although they may be useful to a striker the were almot always used by wrestler such as Shamrock/Coleman/Severn once they got on top. Know your history and take a closer look at things next time. you also forgot to metion the things that are a disadvante for a grappler...but im sure that slipped your mind.

What rank does your sparring partner hold in BJJ?

Why is this' date=' do you think? The kickboxers I've known don't know joint locks, grappling, etc... It seems in these tournaments that once the karate fighter got inside and either applied a joint lock/break, or took them down in a submission hold, the advantage would go to the karate guy? Or am I missing something? Just trying to educate myself...[/quote] I was refering to Pure Standup fighting events. If you want to Talk about MMA or NHB there werent many "pure" karate vs Muay Thai fights but they both got trashed pretty well by the "grapplers" in most cases. But if you look at it today there are quite a few MT fighters that do very well becuase they have cross trained in BJJ/Wrestling/ etc. Although there are a few that have done fairly well with a karate(Kyokushin) background.

the UFC lightweight division is stacked with talent today..back in the day lightweights were almost non existent because there were no weight classes... But i agree it's not fair to compare Bruce to fighters 20 years ahead of him.

possibly, but Kyokushin is the only one to step up to the plate so Far.

Double leg Sinlge leg Hip toss Sholder throw a few sweeps

On the ground you can ... -choke them unconcious -break their arm -break theri wrist -break their sholder -break their leg -break theri neck -break their ankle -strike form a dominant position No one would simply try and "pin someone" in a real fight unless they felt they werent in serious danger or just wanted to Hold ther person until they calmed down or someone broke you up whatever.

I don't think anything in this world is simple anymore - it would depend on the individuals involved. Maybe your average karate kid vs. the average muay thai kid I could agree. But a well trained karate-ka with some cross training would have a superior arsenal to draw from in my opinion. Muay Thai Has has held an advantage over Full contact karate throught this century. The exception would be Mas Oyama and a few of his student fighting in Thailand. There have also been a few Excellent Kyokushin karate guys in K-1 but The edge would still go go Muay Thai. Your right it's not simple but looking at the track record you will see that the only ones who have been able to compete against MT at the top levels are Kyokushin karateka, and even then MT usually holds an advantage.

I will tear your weak post apart real quick- Here are a few examples of "poor" representation by the old schoold guys off the top of my head -Gerard Gordaue-Savate/Muay Thai-European Savate Champion -Patrick Smith-TKD/Karate-Sabaki Challenge winner 1989 and K-1 veteran. -Christopeher Lininger-Judo-two time U.S. National Judo Champion -Dan Severn-Wrestling-Holds Dozens of Greco-Roman wrestling Belts/titles across the world. -Remco Pardoe-Judo/Jiu jitsu-8 time dutch jiu jitsu champion/2 time judo champion -Oleg Taktarov-Sambo- multi time European Sambo Champion -Art Jimmerson-Boxing- ranked in the top 15 in the world at that time. -Ichihara-Japanese Full contact Karate Champion -Ken Shamrock-A very accomplished Shootfighter in Japan -Kevin Rosier Was a Super heavyweight US kickboxing Champion -There were also several Sumo Wrestlers that were quite assomplished in their fields. Funny with All of these world/national champions you would think some of them might paint an accurate picture of their stlye.\ there was plenty of talent in the UFC. If a certain stlyle never did well there was proabably a reason. I almost forget that there are actually still people out there that think like this...Lay off the karate kid movies and step into reality. NAme on Style that was not allowed to fight in the Early UFC's? DO you have any proof or evidence to back up your outlandish claims? It must be nice to run around posting outragous statments without any proof, evidence, or reason then say you arebnt willing ot back up your claims.

Give it up warp it's opbvious your case is weak at best. Unless you can provide specific example of fights where the techniques you are talking about ("the spear" "slamming peoples head form the mount" etc) were attempted but unsecesful because of the flooring(the one people have been Knocked out on several times).

No