MuayThai Fighter

I personally say it can go either way,some strikers will take a grappler down with no hesistation as seen in UFC.However there are just as many grapplers who can take down a striker which you can also see in UFC. Neither the striker or grappler is favoured and sometimes the grappler win and sometimes the striker however the true fighters and the ones that usually win are the mixed martial arts styles. When I say mixed I mean like Muay Thai and Submission Wrestling(also known as Pankration),the Shooto figthers,among a few others. A traditional artists would never fight in UFC because they are not trained for this kind of stuff and would definitely lose.Their kata stuff wouldn't work in the ring especially against top fighters,also most are used to point sparring,not no holds barred fighting. Once again the real winners in UFC are the ones who study a mixed martial arts. What good is stand up fighting without grappling and what good is grappling without some stand up fighting ,to be a well rounded fighter you need both. Gracies is just one example of a grappler alone winning in general you need both,from the UFC fights I've seen very few stand up fighters and very few grapplers have won unless they knew a bit of both.

I love sparring,it's all we do basically.In my school,we don't waste time with katas. Martial arts without sparring just isn't martial arts,so of course I love to sparr,otherwise I would take up dancing or gymnastics. Sparring is awesome.Legal fighting. No holds bar fighting all the way. Muay Thai and Grappling SPAR SPAR SPAR There's just nothing like the pumped feeling you get from sparring.

I joined martial arts to learn how to fight,because I was always one of the guys who got hassled by the school bully and got sick of it after a while so I first joined karate and did so for 12yrs.now I do Pankration and have done so 5yrs. I guess you could say some Bruce Lee movies had an influence on me to join as well.

Scars,Defendo and Pankration look similar to me other then the fact that Defendo and Scars teaches weapons as well. They claim to have taught their stuff in U.S forces,however does someone have to have been in Forces to have learnt that stuff and to teach it? My instructor has never been in Canadian Forces and teaches Pankration which has same or similar unarmed techniques. All three styles involve both stand up and grappling and both based on street defense and are being used in army if scars and defendo's claims are true. Pankration was fought in ancient Greek Olympics. The muay thai in pankration was and still is used in Thailand's army and has become part of elite military and law-enforcement training all over the world. Organizations like the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), Navy Seals, and SWAT have adopted Muay Thai techniques as part of their hand to hand combat basis. Submission which is grappling is also practiced in Pankration. My point is how are scars and defendo any different as far as unarmed combat is concerned? There is no difference,if you look at sites on these styles you will see they teach the same or similar types of techniques for stand up and grappling.

Scars,Defendo and Pankration look similar to me other then the fact that Defendo and Scars teaches weapons as well. They claim to have taught their stuff in U.S forces,however does someone have to have been in Forces to have learnt that stuff and to teach it? My instructor has never been in Canadian Forces and teaches Pankration which has same or similar unarmed techniques. All three styles involve both stand up and grappling and both based on street defense and are being used in army if scars and defendo's claims are true. Pankration was fought in ancient Greek Olympics. The muay thai in pankration was and still is used in Thailand's army and has become part of elite military and law-enforcement training all over the world. Organizations like the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), Navy Seals, and SWAT have adopted Muay Thai techniques as part of their hand to hand combat basis. Submission which is grappling is also practiced in Pankration. My point is how are scars and defendo any different as far as unarmed combat is concerned? There is no difference,if you look at sites on these styles,you will see they teach the same or similar types of techniques.

If they don't tell you,how do you know they duped the U.S Navy? That would be pretty hard to do don't you think so?

I have seen the defendo site and I think it's basically same as my Pankration other then the fact that we don't do weapons training. We both do grappling and stand up fighting although I'm not sure what kind of stand up fighting they do.

They are useless if you want to be a good competitor in sparring or a good fighter in real situation. They're okay if you don't mind doing ballet kind of movements. Most people however join for self-defense,so I agree with you. However you shouldn't think that just because Bruce Lee thought it,you should say it from your own experience.

That's exactly right. That's what I have been saying the whole time.

I totally agree,this is so true.

I think that's most of the problem. The Muay Thai fighters have the mentality that everything is about fighting, the karate fighters well I don't know about them that's why I'm going to learn karate. BTW what the hell is a mcdojo? I've heard this term being thrown around a lot and don't know what it means. Oh and I heard someone talking how when you do kata you practice the muscles used to do the techniques, so maybe that could be a valuable reason for kata. Oh yeah how do you tell if your studying at a "mcdojo"? We don't have the mentality that everything is about fighting,when we practice fighting we are practicing for self-defense,not to go pick fights with people,but to fight until you win should you be put into a real situation. Practicing fighting for self-defense will get you alot further then practicing little fancy ballet type techniques in the air.

Okay now I understand how a person in a wheel chair could learn martial arts,makes sense to me.I guess those wrist locks we've learnt in karate would work for a person in wheel chair too.Never thought about how it would work for them before,because I've never been in a wheel chair,but I understand now.Thanks for clearing that up for me. I wasn't rushing to any response,I simply just asked a question,not my fault everyone takes it as an insult. Not once did I say it was impossible for a person in wheel chair to learn martial arts,I just asked how it was possible.

Actually no I don't see how JJ can be an ideal art for someone in a wheel chair,you still need your legs.If I knew I wouldn't be asking how a person in a wheel chair can do M.A. Geeze,can't ask a simple fucking question and everyone freaks out and assumes I'm making fun of people in a wheel chair wanting to do martial arts. I don't know because I've never trained or been trained with someone in a wheel chair.

Look bud I wasn't trying to be cruel,I was just looking for an explaination,so I don't give a shit if you find my comment disappointing. You say I'm not a true student of martial arts,ya right,okay bud you stick to your little katas and see if they really do any good in self-defense.

Oh my god this site makes me laugh,what a joke.I only agree with some of it. "A fight in a point's tournament is often won by the first person to score. The person who is most 'switched on' and 'alert' is likely to get into gear first! Is this not true of the spontaneous Street situation?" You actually by into this crap?.No it's not true of the spontaneous street situation.In a street fight it's not about scoring points and who is most switched on and alert,it's about being the better fighter,knowing how to take care of yourself and winning to survive. Martial arts is about fun,and learning realistic self-defense,self-confidence,self-esteem,self-motivation.If I'm trying to win a street fight using what is used in point sparring,I'm going to lose confidence in my training and no longer be motivated to continue. That's why I don't do point sparring. The modern open tournament has become a circus, with multi coloured suits, acrobatic techniques, and bizarre scoring systems, it has become hard to tell reality from fantasy. Some purists will argue that there are no true Martial Arts any more, as there are no true Martial Situations. Not all modern open tournaments have become a circus with multi coloured suits and acrobatic techniques.No offense for those who do traditional martial arts like karate, but in my opinion they make it look like that,but many of us who do realistic martial arts as far as self-defense is concerned have way better technique and are far from looking like acrobatic techniques.The reason for this is we learn how to fight and learn what really counts in sparring instead of the fancy moves in point sparring. What's the definition of a true martial artist? To me it's being a great fighter,to someone else it may be different. But since this topic is about the sparring aspect of M.A then I'd have to say there are still some true martial artists or fighters of M.A. The 'freestyle' points circuit, is somewhat confusing to more traditional Martial Artists. From their perspective it is hard to see anything other than a lot of people playing psychological tag. If I dare to describe Karate Kumite as a sport for a moment, the difference in the point scoring is that successful strikes are usually clearer, and easier to see. I totally agree with this statement. That's exactly what free style points sparring is,a game of tag. It is very true that strikes of free style point sparring is easier to see. To be a premium point's fighter, you must practice your arsenal of techniques thousands of times. When, and only when you have done this, can you use these skills on the mat. An attack thrown without confidence of success will never succeed. If you dismiss 'Point' fighting out of hand, how do you redress this in your own system if not the same way? Whatever!!!!! full contact sparring is all that is needed,not point sparring. Remember everyone this is just my opinion.

I know not everyone trains to go to tournaments and to fight,but this discussion is for those who do,why else do you think I'm comparing the two types of sparring? If you want to talk about intent of martial arts ,then go to my other topic called "what does it take to make a realistic martial arts?and give your opinion in there."

Ya Ya,so what,I was close enough.

Of course,but I'm still able to move.I can get up and fight.Or I can poke him in the eyes if he's behind me,or even try to flip him. But when you're in a wheel chair you can't get up and flip someone that attacks you from behind and if you miss when trying to poke him,he can do same back to you.At least in a regular chair I can still move around. Most people who are in a wheel chair can't move at all or just barely anyways. Besides not much you can do if a person applies a choke hold on you and you're sitting down. That's why I'm curious.Like I said ,I wasn't trying to be mean,I am just being curious.

You're talking to two of us people at same time here? I made the remark about the disabled person doing martial arts,but I'm not the one looking for karate slippers.Can't fight muay thai with karate slippers. I know a disabled person can do martial arts, if that wasn't possible I wouldn't be able to do martial arts,but I'm still able to walk,I'm not in a wheel chair.I don't understand how a person who can't walk can do martial arts. I never said they shouldn't be allowed to,I just don't know how they'd manage to,unless like I said it was tai chi. I wasn't trying to be mean,I 'm just curious to how they do it if they can't even walk. Sorry if it sounded like I was trying to be disgusting and cruel,I never meant for it to come across that way. I have alot of respect for people who don't let their disability get in the way of what they want to do and do their best to get where they want instead of giving up.

No I'm not saying 34 is old.Don't worry I don't think 36 is old just ancient. LOL What exactly is Kuk Sool Won? sounds like some form of Tae kwon do. or is Kuk Sool Won some type of korean soup? LOL Don't you just love my sense of humour?HA HA HA

I agree with what you say,but I do have to question this,don't you mean the ignorant fight to lose?I don't find anything ignorant about wanting to win. Sometimes a person has no choice but to fight in order to defend themselves and I'd rather win then get the crap kicked out of me.It would be stupid to fight and want to lose,in that case why even bother defending yourself?

How the heck does a person in wheel chair do martial arts? If you mean run the person over with his wheel chair then you don't need martial arts for that. I guess if a person in a wheel chair does something like Tai chi,then it makes sense,but something to do with self-defense,I doubt it.

I know how to count to 10 in Japanese. Itch,Ni,San,Shi,Go,Ryku,Suchi,Hatchi,Ku,Ju. I probably spelt some of the words wrong though.

Actually I was referring to the Tai chi in parks and what you see people doing on tv.You are wrong in saying it isn't a martial arts,because infact it is considered just that ask any chinese martial artist. I just don't look at it in that way,because to me martial arts is something that can really work as self-defense both in competition and on street. Full art of tai chi,I can't imagine being realistic as far as self-defense is concerned,because as you've seen in my other posts I don't see katas as being realistic,but that's my opinion. After all Tai chi is pre-arranged forms without any partner.I realize there are several types of Tai chi but all do forms. Tai Chi is something I may do when I'm older for relaxation,and unable to compete. Tai Chi is however, from what I've heard is good for your heart and over- all health.

Please give me your opinions only on what you think about each one and why you find one more realistic then the other.Do this without Fighting Please. As a muay thai fighter and ex-traditional artist having done point sparring at one time or another,I am more for full contact. The limits of Full Contact: Having to wear 16 ounce gloves. Advantage to Full Contact: 1/.To get the feeling of the closest thing to a real fight you need to sparr full out,such as in MuayThai,Boxing,Shooto,Savate etc. 2/.Truelly tests your ability to fighting under higher levels of stress and adrenuline rush then in point sparring. 3/.Good test of stamina. 3/. Gives you more confidence then point sparring. 4/.You become a better fighter in less amount of time where as with point sparring it could take years. I know some people think to be a good fighter you have to practice kata,which I totally disagree with,but this thread has nothing to do with it,so please avoid bringing it up. Disadvantage of Full Contact: Easier to get hurt. Advantage of point sparring: Less likely to get hurt than in full contact. Disadvantage of point sparring: 1/.Does not allow you to get to the closest feeling of being in a real situation. 2/.No contact means,no true fighting experience 3/.False feeling of confidence. 4/.Does not test your true ability under stress. 5/.Doesn't test your stamina,power and speed. Conclusion: Have good technique,fight fast,hard or go home. Remember these statements are my opinions. As I expect no more then opinions whether agreeing or not. Please give me your views on the two,I'd really like to know what you think.