Iron Arahat

I see nothing wrong with competitive sport firearms, keep the gun at the club not at home. I never faulted anyone for a recreational sport. In one of my first posts in this thread I stated that guns should be kept in gun clubs. The US is responsible for 78% of the Black Market of illegal firearms. Illegal guns start from legal means, it is a legal market that fuels illegal trade. If you are always locking up your gun in a safe, it won't be accessable for self defense in the home, as you have place so much value on. As for my insecurity (which I have none), I have merely debated a fact. I'm not asking for a thread to be closed because I don't like what I hear, or I can't debate a point without getting bent out of shape about it. I am presenting an educated point of view to the subject. You stated you were a fireams activist, obviously you let emotion blind you point of view. Do I train martial arts because I am a whimp, the answer to that is "no" so I can better protect the public in the line of duty. I also train people in the arts to make the community a better place to live. You seem very insecure and/ or emotional, I never claimed to be better than you Withers. If you had seen that kid that commited suicide, like I did, you too would question the reason that a firearm is in an urban home. Maybe he would of killed himself anyways, but the gun was alot more final. Alot of people who commit suicide do it a s a cry for help. Less fatal means ie. slashing you can actually save the life. Later on these people who had full intention of killing themselves, are glad to be alive. Yes there will always be guns in society, but better control are needed. Canada has enacted tougher laws, and stronger penalties against those with illegal arms. It's a start. [ This Message was edited by: Iron Arahat on 2002-06-01 00:32 ]

I support my opinion with facts. Why do statistics make you feel like you know so little? Well seeing as your guns are locked up, it's good you train martial arts so you can fight your way to your guns to get them out. It's good for some people to rely on a cruch for insecurities they may have with themselves. Guns being one of them. Insecurities and a blatant disregards to the facts perpetuates myths. Remember that as I said in one of my earlier posts "Guns kept in the home for self-protection are 43 times more likely to kill a family member or friend than to kill in self-defense." [ Kellermann and Reay, N.E. Journal of Medicine] If someone considers suicide in a household with a gun, they are more likely to be successful. Hopefully if you have or ever have kids that they don't get a hold of your guns. I can tell you there is nothing more depressing than watching a mother try to shove her childs brain back into his head, and begging the paramedics to save him, when the top of his head is completely gone. Withers stated "Luckily for me I own firearms and you don't." That's a mature attitude to have, does it make you feel more powerful, like you have the upper hand.

Maryland - MOTOR VEHICLE INJURY DEATHS 673 FIREARM INJURY DEATHS 760 Louisiana - Cars -899 /Firearms - 1,087 Arizona - Cars - 977 /Firearms - 986 Nevada - Cars - 298 /Firearms - 398 Alaska - Cars -88 / Firearms -122 California - Cars 4,314 / Firearms - 4,805 District of Columbia - Cars 67 / Firearms - 269 These are from National Center for Health Statistics, data from the National Vital Statistics system. Statistic Year 1995. I guess automobiles are not the #1 killer in all of the US states. The stats here are actually pretty close, I wish I had the information on impaireds for the same period. People who get caught for impaired in Canada at least do lose their driving priviledges, and can get jail time. Kill someone wiwhile impaired you will get charged with Manslaughter. So banning driving priviledges for drunk drivers protects society, and I'm all for that. As for a direct comparison between driving in general and firearms is a weak if not childish comparison (Lets ban stairs cause people fall down them and die). If you like throwing out random statements and generallities you may wish to support you arguments with some research. As for the training whatever floats your boat, thinking you get the same training as enforcement officials leads me to believe that you are a civillian, but I could be wrong. With generalized statements such as "people like you" indicates to me that you are closed minded towards the subject. Because I'd like to know what people like me, specifically me are all about.

I like Vitor Belfort a jujitsu stylist, the man has heart, and good skill, even though he may not be the best. Tank for being colourful, and giving white-trash everywhere a hero...

I never said that you are not entitled to your opinion, no matter how unsupported it is with emperical evidence. You state you would feel safer that law abiding citizens were carrying guns. How can one achieve that. I imagine through tighter regulation, like the UK. The statistics are real, not usless, they are indicators of a problem. Whithers stated "It is people like you who are so scared of handguns that have prob. never even been to a range." To the contrary I think you have no clue. You know litte about me. The fact of the matter is I have been to a range, and probably have had better training than yourself in the use of firearms. Your right that people are killers, but it the access that they have to lethal means that makes them more successful. It's easier to kill someone with a gun than with your bare hands. You may never agree with any of my belief, but at least my opinions are supported by facts.

"In the mid 1970s, a group of martial arts masters teaching Tae Kwon Do split from the main body and created Wu Shu Kwan. Wu Shu Kwan aimed to be a hard fighting style a-la Korean Tae Kwon Do, but drawing on the wu shu experience of its teachers. Traditional Chinese wu shu forms were introduced into the grading syllabus." Now I understand that you are a Korean based art, and offshoot that took upon it a Chinese name. I find it intresting that how this happens. To the general public it is likely that they would think you are a chinese martial art. Thanks for the info.

As for all the law abiding citizens saved, well lets weigh that out: In 1998, for every time a woman used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 101 women were murdered with a handgun. In 1998, for every time a woman used a handgun to kill an intimate acquaintance in self-defense, 83 woman were murdered by an intimate acquaintance with a handgun. In 1998, for every time a woman used a handgun to kill a stranger in self-defense, 302 woman were murdered with a handgun. It seems that you are more likely to die than kill in self defence from a firearm. Not to mention that there is a 50% chance that you will get injured in comparison if you use a gun in self defence in comparison to 20% for those who don't. Another issue is that 80% of manufactured guns in the world are produced in the United States. A whopping 92% of illegal firearms in the US are originated in the US (go figure). Even in Canada 86% of illegal firearms are traced back to the United States as an intitial purchase point. Where it was initially legally obtained. Traced guns come from many countries across the globe. However worldwide, 78% of the guns that were traced originated in the United States (FBI Bulliten) So the way I see this is that the US is contributing to the distribution of illegal firearms accross the globe. Maybe if the US had tighter gun laws we would see a decrease in homicide involving firearms. Maybe if the US didn't produce so many guns, it wouldn't be an issue at all. But the point still remains that due to lax gun control laws, guns are an issue in society. To me it is evident that the 2nd ammendment contributes immensly to the black-market economy of firearms.

There a varying degrees of sprains that occur. You should go to your doctor, and ask him to show how to tape your ankle for stability when training for the first while. Take some time off your feet, it will heal faster that way. It will also insure that the tissue heals well. As you get better balance on one leg and if possible do it on a balance board, it will help strengthen the joint. Don't rush to get right back in take at least two weeks off class, and listen to your body. It will take 6-8 weeks to feel 100%. Sorry man, I've been there and its hard to sit around, but take my advice...take it easy.

I think all the facts I have used to support my opinion, make a good point. But since you wish to continue without supporting you argument with fact: In the United States in 1998 the following statistic applies to victims of crime, a half of the victims defending themselves with a firearm suffered an injury, compared to almost one-fifth of those who defended themselves with weapons other than a firearm or who had no weapon. (Uniform Crime Report) There are over 340,000 firearm thefts per year in the US. Maybe if everyone didn't have a gun, there wouldn't be so many illegal firearms. Gun Injuries and Deaths Among Young People: - In 1998,10 young people a day died from gunshot in the US. - Gun homicide is the fourth leading cause of death for young people 10-14 years of age and the second leading cause of death for young people 15-24. [National Center for Health Statistics, 1997.] - Gunshot wounds are the leading cause of death for both African-American and white teenage males [Journal of the American Medical Association]. - One in six parents say they know a child who accidentally shot himself or herself with a gun [Harvard School of Public Health]. -Suicide is nearly 5 times more likely to occur in a household with a gun than in a household without a gun. [Kellerman, A.L. et al., N Engl J Med 327, 1993.] - Guns kept in the home for self-protection are 43 times more likely to kill a family member or friend than to kill in self-defense. [ Kellermann and Reay, N.E. Journal of Medicine] Best keep that gun under the bed...

I'd be intrested to see what arts where this traditional training is in...I also find it intresting to have a Chinese martial art with reference to "dan" or "degree" a japanese word. Lineage is typically traced beyond your "Grandmaster" in Chinese martial arts. For example: Founder Bodhidharma (Damo), 1st Huike, 2nd Sengca, 3rd Daoxin.....Hui Jing Dashi 47th generation, Gao Can Dashi 48th generation. It's like a family tree, so one knows where the style comes from. Someone had to appoint the 8th degree black belt...didn't they? The following was found at : http://union.ic.ac.uk/kungfu/mainframe.html Gradings Grading fee: £11 (upper brown: £30, black belt: £50) "The minimum requirements are to have attended 8 classes and for at least 3 months to have passed since your last grading." "IC KFC has a long tradition of training students from beginners all the way to black belt. Provided you train regularly enough, it is possible to get a black belt in just over 2 years, before completing your degree! The fact that you can get to such a high level so quickly does not mean that it is easy to get a black belt in our style, rather it reflects how the WSK training system greatly accelerates progression." Does anyone have an opinion on the above website snippets?

The UK's homicide rate is less than the United States firearm homicide rate, and I would find that scary that I am more likely to get shot in the US than die in the United Kingdom. True you don't need a gun to kill someone, but to the same extent it easier to kill someone with a gun than your bare hands. This is also why the US's suicide rate is higher, people who want to kill themselves have access to more lethal means, and are therfore more successful at attempts. You can save someone who has slashed up rather than blown their head off their shoulders. I guess you comfortable that over 17,000 people die each year at the end of a gun in the US. What about the children of the US? Homicides in 1997, 1464 of them occurred among U.S. children. Of these homicides 86% involved a firearm. Furthermore, the homicide rate for children in the United States was five times higher than that for children in the other 25 countries combined (2.57 per 100,000 compared with 0.51). (World Bank Development Report, New York). But I guess statistic and thousands of people dying each year from a preventable cause is less important than America's 2nd Amendment, because the right to bare arms is more important than a person's right to live his life.

I'm still curious to your schools lineage, and why you refer to degrees for belts.

If you regulate firearms there will be less homicide.

The United States has a homicide rate involving firearms of 3.72 per 100,000, Canada has a rate of 0.76 per 100,000, The United Kingdom has a rate of 0.11 per 100,000. Notice the rate goes from loosest to stricter firearm controls. The U.S. has a high gun murder rate, whereas a country like England with strict gun controls has almost no gun murders, and a very low murder rate to boot. (FBI Uniform Crime report 1999). Withers stated "As a civilian I have access to the same training as law enforcement officials. Courses are offered that teach combat handgun techniques etc." It costs alot of money for the training, and as for the same I can guarantee it isn't. Civilians are civilians. I have a hard time believing that you could get a group of civilians through a tac course. It's not the same. And back to the American Revolution and the 2nd amendment...again a modern day civil revolution in the US would be comical it would be crushed. Just because it was written in the constitution the NRA has *******ized the meaning so Joe Trailer Park has the right to have a gun, and I'm sure that is what your fore-fathers wanted, drunks with guns killing their wives, robbing 7 elevens, gang warfare, because it is their so called constitutional right. I think they wanted to protect the democracy of America from an outside threat.

I think it really depends on the student and their intentions. I am always a little hesitant to share with someone that is from another style, because yes I wonder about their intentions. In my own experiences I have had people come and enroll in classes fom another school, that were there only to see how we train, and learn our fight strategies for our competative students. On the other hand I have had people come from other styles that became dedicated students. I always tell my students that they are free to go and train with whomever they choose, that there are many options out there for them. I honestly believe that it is okay to crosstrain as long as the styles are very different. ie) Judo & Kung-Fu, or Muay thai & jujitsu, arnis & karate. If the styles are both stand up I find it takes away, I'm sure it is the same for a combination like wrestling and jujitsu. For example I have a student that is a TKD practitioner, he has difficulty unlearning things to learn what we have to offer. There is competition among schools, for too many reasons to name. Personally I compete with a McDojo, and I run a non-profit society. People pull down my advertising, and instructors from other schools are upset because I take some of their business away. While I visit other schools and try to be friendly, the other schools have been not very receptive, nor do they come to my school even though they are invited. I actually had one instructor stand in his doorway, and not let me enter. To me such behavior is insulting. I try to run a tournament that has a seperate division so there is no direct compettion between schools, and raise money for the fire department and food for the food bank, to have them snub it because they won't make money. To me if someone wishes to go train elsewere they are welcome to it is their choice. They may not like me, my style, my method, my personality, or a combination of things. But there are those who have bad intentions, and that does make people suspicious. People steal traditions or claim lineage that they do not belong to, and that is damaging. If you go to our website people are listed in our family tree so no false claims can be laid. For example we had one guy train in our school for a few months and then compete against us under a different schools name. Again insulting. My student tore him apart. After the fight, he said to me do you remember me? I looked at him and I said good to see you, when in my heart I was hurt, insulted, and glad he was beaten badly. I personally believe it is okay to cross train. My question Koreantiger is what would you do if there was a tournament in which both your TKD schools attended. Who's flag would you fly. Where would your honor lie...

Wushu Kwan translated means "Martial Arts Fist". San Shou and San Da mean the same thing and refer to the competitve set of rules for Chinese Kickboxing. I was curious if you fight by those rules. I am curious who your centres trace back their lineage to, and where the degree's ranking comew from. If you are a competitive school you may wish to join us at our event http://www.telusplanet.net/public/sanshouchallenge.pdf

What do you need guns to protect yourself from the government for? Sounds a little parinoid. You don't think for one second that if the US government had an internal issue that required action, that they couldn't flatten them. Look the Gulf war and the current conflict. I think if there were active revolutionaries within the US they would get wiped out, guns or not to defend themselves. The second amendment if that is the passage about the right to bear arms, I think presently it has been taken a little out of context. Rember the US had a revolution of sorts against the British. The right to arms was to protect self government. No so any raving looney can have a gun. Guns should have a limited role in everyday society...

I think that firearms should be left in the hands of law enforcement officials, and locked up at gun clubs if they are used for sport. Using a gun at home increases the chance in a confrontation that you will get killed. "The US has over three times the number of guns per capita as Canada; there were 549 homicides in Canada in 1998, compared to 17,874 in the US. Americans are twice as likely to commit suicide with a firearm as Canadians. Research and Statistics Division, Department of Justice Canada (Kwing Hung), June 2001" These statistics speak volume I think in regards to firearms. There is also a huge gap between what a civillian has in training, and believe it or not I'm glad that the public doesn't have access to the training that is available to law enforcement. I believe there is no place for guns in society in the publics hands, except for hunters and sports clubs in which highly regulated restrictions should apply.

Do you mean San Shou or San Da? I assume that Wushu Kwan is the name of your school, or the style you do (Wushu=martial arts).

What qualifies someone as trained?

Ironic in which way? That it took a serious terrorist attack to "resume an outgoing of patriotism from the American people." Or that Canadian's didn't need a world crisis, just a beer commercial. I think simple is better sometimes...Canada should always be Canada, not just another state.

Technique over strength. You need a combination of speed and strength. You learn to adapt to what you have, either more speed or more strength. Speed is overated in alot of cases, sure you can hit the guy, but can you put them down. That's why you will never see a lightweight be able to hang with the heavyweights.

What would be the point? Higher crime rate? Loose Gun Control Laws? The highest incarceration rate in the world? 4 downs in football? Bad tasting beer? Melting pot vs. multiculturalism? The American democratic vote for president? Target for terrorist attacks? No medical coverage? Larger insurance bills? Baseball as our national pastime? I am Canadian...

In Toronto got see Sunny Tang for Wing Chun. Drunken Boxing is taught in Shaolin School, and Choy Lay Fut in several cases. Drunken style is usually taught with a larger system as a specialty. It's a long road before one learns it.

Another way to look at defending yourself against a knife attack is took look at the last time you sparred. Did you get hit? No imagine if the hand that hit you was holding a knife. Could you have utilized you knife defense technique on it?