sojobo

Not tremendous difference, they are both pretty much doing the same moves from a functional stand-point. I beg to differ. I don't see many techniques that are the same. There is even a variation in the embussen. I am at work at the moment so can't spend too much time on the subject, but I will expand later on tonight. Sojobo

Indeed, and you see now what I mean about Wado and comparing it to Shotokan? Sojobo

I did, thank you. There are some major wrongs in them (not least the translation of Kara) but then again solid in most respects as far as I could see. I particularly liked how the group in the second vid got up from seiza. Don't get me wrong, I do that in my kids class to demonstate correct weight distribution wilst kneeling, but it isn't in our typical reigi. Sojobo

That's interesting. I know that Motobu believed that "Sente" was all important. In fact he even went as far as saying that "Karate is Sente" (see point 6). http://motobu-ryu.org/sayings.aspx It is an important aspect of Wado-ryu also. Going back to the clip, did you understand my clarification about distance? Also as you will have seen from the Takagi clips i posted kuzushi is an important feature also. Does this come into play with your pair work? Sojobo

Forgive me, I just don't understand the first two sentences in your post. As for your comment regarding distance, what I said in my prior post applies across all movements in the kumite, not just the first move. In class, we keep switching partners and you can find yourself against a 5' woman and than next opponent is a man who is 6'6" with completely different mai and timing in each move. By chance, did you visit the book I linked? I am curious if there is anything like that philosophically in Wado's kumite gatas. Apologies, I wrote that on the wing as it were - should have explained a bit clearer. By timing there are basically 3 ways to deal with an attack (let’s say a punch). Go no sen - basically means to block/avoid first then counter attack second Sen no sen - is to defend and counter simultaneously Sen sen no sen - is to take the initiative and strike first as soon as an attack seems inevitable. Tell me where to go if you already knew that lol. I have attached some footage of what I was referring to when I mean distance. This is our Kihon Kumite no. 2. You will note that after avoiding the kick, tori closes down the distance entirely. That was what I was referring to. [Edit] and even more so in Kihon Kumite 8 I did note that in the Shorin Ryu clip you posted that was applied on a couple of cases but in the most part the distance was greater. Yes, I did read the eBook snippet and there are points detailed that are embraced in Wado ryu Kihon Kumite. As far as philosophies are concerned however probably the most important is that of “ko bo ittai” which basically means attack and defence are one. So although we talk about attacker and defender they are the same really when we approach Kihon Kumite. Sojobo

When I say timing i mean in terms of sente. Go no sen, sen no sen and sen sen no sen. In terms of distance I was referring not so much as the active distance between uke and tori at the point of initiating the first technique, but more in terms of the length of the techniques and the finishing distance. Sojobo

Thank you for the link, I really enjoyed that. As far as comparing it to our pair work, yes I see similarities with many of the Ippon / SanbonKumite that we do, but it is quite different (I think) to Wado's Kihon Kumite. Techniques aside perhaps the most striking difference was the distance and timing. What do you think Dobbersky. Sojobo

Because in the most part it is, but that doesn't necessarily make it any different from most ma, and it's not a reason to not practice it. Ninjutsu as an art is/was very real, even to the point where some "legit" koryu like katori Shinto ryu mention it in their curriculum. The problem that most of the stuffy koryu guys (like me) have with it is the quality of what is being taught in many (not all) schools. Sojobo

"There is only training". That's what my sensei used to say and those that know... Sojobo

Yes, I already had Klemola's ebook - there are some interesting points there. Ref: your comments I have emboldened above, it would not surprise me if you had practiced something similar to Ohyo Gumite, however I would be surprised if you had come across anything quite like Wado's Kihon Kumite set. As you will have read in Klemola's book he says these were - in the most part - created by Otsuka from his experiences in Koryu Bujutsu (Samurai art of ancient Japan) namely kenjutsu and Jujutsu / Atemi Jutsu. Are you able to post a YT clip so I can compare. Sojobo

To quote Otsuka himself... "Okinawan Karate is to Wado as a pinch of salt is to a stew". Sojobo Well I am pretty sure it was his son that said that. He can say anything he wants to sell the style, but the fact is that to my knowledge all of their katas are of Okinawan origin. I am not a Wado stylist, but to me that suggests a lot more influence of Shuri-te than these words imply. His son (Otsuka Jiro) did say it, and as the headmaster of the Wado-ryu Renmei, who learnt his karate directly from his father, I think that makes him the most qualified person on the planet to do so. Yes, Otsuka took Okinawan Kata that he learnt from Funakoshi, Motobu and Mabuni and adapted them to suit his purposes. For example, look at Wado ryu Shuto uke. There is a very deliberate reason why Otsuka chose to perform them at Jodan. I won’t go it the whys and therefore (that’s for another day) – but suffice to say it is fundamental within Wado. On a surface level the Kata look similar to that of their Okinwan originals but beneath the surface there’s a whole lot more going on. My point is that by making an assumption that, actually, Wado and Shotokan are not too different (as they both come from Okinawan stock) and you walk into the Wado dojo with that in mind, you setting yourself up for an epic fail. Depends on what you define as Jujutsu. If you are talking about the modern homogenised stuff then I agree with you but, it has direct correlations with the Jujutsu techniques found in Koryu bujutsu schools. The Tanto-dori Kata for example are straight out of Shindo Yoshin Ryu. There are striking similarities in our Idori kata with that of Tenshin Shinyo Ryu. I’m not sure the fact that the Kata are of Okinawan origin is what makes it Karate, but I do agree with you that it is Karate. @ Dobbersky – when you practiced Wado did you train Kihon Kumite in any detail? The reason I ask is that this is the point where the switch from what looks and feels like “karate” (in its broader sense) to Wado Karate is most apparent. It is at this stage that most of the principles fundamental to Wado are realised. When you start to unlock these you begin to see why Otsuka utilised / modified the solo kata in that the way he did. Sojobo

To quote Otsuka himself... "Okinawan Karate is to Wado as a pinch of salt is to a stew". Sojobo

That's not entirely correct. Whilst I would agree that Funakoshi's karate undoubtely help shape Otsuka's Wado, I don't think it was by applying Shotokan techniques per-se. Otsuka was already Menkyo Keiden in Shindo Yoshin-ryu (a Koryu Bujutsu of fuedel Japan), and as such he had considerable combat skills long before he stepped foot into a karate dojo. Yes, there are techniques that are common between the styles however the core principles of Wado have more in common with SYR imo. Sojobo

I don't disagree with you, it is important to keep ourselves healthy. Re turning the foot before - I would not need to stare at someone's foot to see the shape of their intention if they did it - but you are right, there are ways to disguise it - that's budo. I guess my point is that you should learn it right first, and then for longevity of training adjustments can be made. Sojobo

Rotating the supporting foot (prior to commencing with the kick) is not a bad way to teach beginners, particularly if they lack flexibility, but I would caution against it long term. It is not very combatively viable as not only does it add a movement to the technique (And as a result takes longer to launch the kick), it telegraphs the technique. More correctly, the foot/leg should be rotated as you kick. Glad you guys had a good keiko together though. Sojobo

Re-posted in other thread. Sojobo

An acquaintance of mine who sits fairly high up in the Wado tree in the USA speaks highly of Shoji Nishimura. Nishimura's group is (I believe) affiliated to the Wado-Ryu Renmei (Otsuka II's group) so you will be in good hands by the sounds of it. You mention however about also learning Jujutsu. Whilst its fair to say that Wado has jujutsu as part of its make up, it is probably not the jujutsu you are thinking of, so don't expect too much - particularly early on in your training. [edit] I just re-read your post and see that the school also teaches Judo, Aikido and Aiki-jutsu - which may satisfy your jujutsu requirements. Good luck and let us know how you get on. Sojobo

If the OP is referring to Shiai kumite with a single point to win it is usually referred to as Shobu Ippon. Sojobo

France won. Sojobo

I could be wrong, but in this context I think the op is referring to "one step" pre-arranged sparring (Yakusoku Kumite). If this is the case, you are probably judged in pairs - ie you and your partner versus another pair. Sojobo

Wado-ryu is quite different from the modern Shotokan of today. As well as the obvious physical differences there are also ones of approach. Yes, Wado does emphasise body movement and evasion but actually, all styles have this. As mentioned by another Wado stylist don’t “typically” utilse the process of Bunkai in the same way as the Okinwan karate stylists do, but the flip to this is that we have an extensive range of paired kata and paired exercises. Many of which have their origins in the Koryu Bujutsu. Another difference perhaps is that Wado seeks to attain and hold "Sente" - which could be quite new for you. At higher levels you will realise that Wado has more in common with Shindo Yoshin Ryu than it does Okinwan Karate, but with only 4 years at Uni you are unlikely to get to that stage. As far as keeping the belt is concerned, many Uni clubs let you keep what you have. Sojobo

Hi, Those are styles. What I was referring to is associations. ie JKA (Shotokan), or JKF (Wado) etc. You stand a much better chance of learning good Wado for example from a group that is part of the JKF Wadokai and even better if its instructors have JKF Instructor qualifications. That's no to say of course that you won't learn fantastic Karate from someone who isn't part of a major organisation, it’s just your odds are greatly reduced. Sojobo

How do you define best in their field? Also - wouldn't you check that first - or would you take their word for it? Sure, your surgery may work and even hold up for a number of years even, but over time it may fail? How do you minimise the chances of that happening? - By going to the guys that hold qualifications with organisations that have a proven track record for quality - tried and tested over many, many years. Sojobo

In my experience, a lot of the time, those that remonstrate about not needing authentication are the ones that need it most. Karate is an Okinawan/Japanese ma. I would much prefer to train with someone that had credible paperwork to back that up. Why? - Because I think you increase your chances in terms of learning a system accurately rather than one that is a karate styles cousin twice removed. Sojobo

Don't know about other Karate groups but in ours, certificates are awarded with every successful grading (kyu and dan). My JKF Wadokai dan grade certificates have unique numbers on them which are registration numbers that correspond to log entries held at the JKF Wadokai headquarters in Tokyo Japan. Belts are pieces of cloth at the end of the day and certificates bits of paper - what counts is how good you do your "style" of karate. You'll notice I wrote your “style” of karate as opposed to just being good at Karate. There is a world of difference between styles and schools and what counts is how well you have internalised the workings of the particular ryu-ha you are training. Sojobo