
sojobo
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Everything posted by sojobo
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BTW, What ryu-ha do you practice/teach? If my memory serves me correctly "Cayuga" is a native American Indian tribe - It is not a Japanese school anyway. Sojobo
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As a long time student of Wado-ryu, your words resonate with me. Wado-ryu "does not have bunkai" but instead we have the paired kata handed down from our Koryu Bujutsu ancestry - from which we can can begin to "understand" the process behind the omote of the solo kata – or at least that’s the theory. I for one would be interested in that other post. sojobo
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Shugyo, as I understand it, is austere training that conditions both the body and the mind. As Sensei8 and PS1 have said - through correct training (and hard training), your body will become conditioned to do what you are asking it to. In addition to that is the fact that through keiko (with a good instructor), you will (or should) work out where you are making mistakes and by correcting them you will alleviate a lot of the pain you are going through. All part of training - that’s why we do it. I'll give you a graphic example.... When I started training Koshi no Mawari (old way of saying Iai/kenjutsu) my right thumb was continuously being skinned by the tsuba (guard).. Why? Because I kept putting my hand in the wrong place. My instructor repeatedly corrected me but I still kept doing it. After a while you get wise - slow things down a bit and correct it - that’s all part keiko. It’s your body’s self correction / protection mechanism kicking in. Today, I have just done best part of 3 hours of Kenjutsu - no sign of the dreaded tsuba-chafe. Don't get me wrong, other things hurt like hell, but it's all a work in progress . Sojobo
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It's a firm no from me also. Traditional karate - taught well, by a good instructor - has always offered as much (if not more) than MMA. Sojobo
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Budo. Sojobo
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I teach (to the best of my ability) Wado-ryu. Sojobo
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My question is why wouldn't it be? I do agree that it can be difficult to define "complete" as well, and it goes a bit further than to say "having a little bit of everything." The other concern I have is why can't Karate evolve and change? It would seem to me to be a benefit if it did; keep the old, add the new. I think this is where the lines become a little grey. When we talk of "complete" today, does that mean it would stand up in an MMA octagon? or does it mean it would be effective on the battlefield (or as we call them these days streets!)? There is Karate and there is self defence. Naturally, self defence sits at the core of karate but Karate in itself isn't self defence. I have taught Wado-ryu karate now for over a decade and I decided a long time back to remove the wording self defence from anywhere on our clubs website and literature. Fact is that karate does evolve and it does change. The Karate I do now is quite different to what I did 25 years ago - but in the most part, thats down to approach - not content. Sojobo
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I agree wholeheartedly with you and Sensei8 here. It occurs to me - particularly in this day and age of stress and misery - that the study of traditional arts like Karate and jujutsu is on the up, as they provide an oasis from the everyday drudgery of life. They add a kind of value to life that is very difficult to compare. Sojobo
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I don't know, my judo experience has really opened the door for me on so many of these moves. After all, the human body can only grab and throw another human body in so many ways. Your kata is either in sync with one of them or it isn't. With most of the styles present now, we can see that specialization has taken place over the years. Judo took to specializing in throws, and Karate tended to take a specialization in striking. I do think the two brought together would only be beneficial to a Martial Artist. And after a time of the curriculum being refined and worked on, it would eventually become its own style, and not two styles put together. From a combative perspective, I agree with you. If you want a more complete game, then as well as learning Karate learn Jujutsu etc. My point was more about trying to learn Jujutsu techniques in a Karate environment. Then we have the more "holistic" argument that by doing that, your are no longer studying Karate for the sake of studying karate - you are simply learning how to become a better fighter. Don't get me wrong, if that's your goal then fine - but karate offers a lot more than that. I always think that karate is different things to different people - and I am cool with that. Who said anyway that Karate has ever been - or was designed to be - a complete fighting system? After all, how do you define complete? Sojobo
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There ya go then. Sojobo
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I really struggle with this. If you want to learn Jujutsu go to a Jujutsu club you will learn how to do it a lot better there. This is the poblem I have with trying to reverse engineer stuff into Kata. Kata doesn't work that way imo. Sojobo
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We need better instructors imo. That might help. Sojobo
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It does make sense. I know the whip action you refer to and it does not tend to feature in Wado. Its a shame there is not a decent Wado club you can go to as studying our Kihon Kumite would be good for you I think. Anyway, got to go to keiko. Catch you later.
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The reason why we do it the way we do in Wado - with the weight dropping into Mahanmi Nekoashi - is more important than the application. Sojobo
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Did you see the video?
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Well we will have to agree to disagree - I see them as fundamental differences, but that aside... I have attached a copy of a friend of mine performing the "keisetsu" for the first technique along with others in the kata. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykjX_GPIhkg&feature=player_embedded Yes wado has two tetsui ukes. Sojobo
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There is no difference. It is all Wado-ryu, just different associations. Once upon a time everyone who did Wado-ryu were members of the Wado-kai, but there are now 3 major groups: JKF (Japan Karate Federation) Wado-kai* Wado-ryu Renmei (Jiro Otsuka's Group). WIKF (Wado international Karate Federation) the late Suzuki sensei group. Hope that helps Sojobo * Note there is a group in Canada who also call themselves Wado-kai but they are nothing to do with the JKF Wado-kai.
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Trying to explain karate in detail on a technical level over internet is never easy. Not always a good thing to try even. I suppose the first point I would always say would be to look beyond the technique – ie don’t just look at the kicks and punches – look at what the body is doing as a complete unit - how it is moving. What the hey, let’s have a go... First technique: Shoto version: Turn 90 deg to the left – perform gedan barai in zenkutsu dachi. Wado version: No (or little) rotation of torso – perform chudan otoshi tetsui-uke in Hanmi nekoashi dachi. Result: Shotokan employs “single moment” rotation of the hips to power the gedan barai whereas wado uses double moment. Distance changes and weight distribution are entirely different. The two versions apply very differently. Punches: Shoto version uses Oi-zuki. Wado version uses Junzuki -they are different techniques, they look the same but the weight distribution is different and the power generation not quite the same. Jodan Uke’s: Shoto uses Jodan age uke - finishes in front of the forehead. Wado Jodan uke arm finishes directly above the head. Also, note the lack of opposite arm preparation in the Wado version. Last 4 techniques: Shoto version: Shuto uke in kokotsu-dachi Wado version: Nukite in shiko dachi Result: The techniques and application are completely different. In the Shoto version, the hips and arm movement work in concert to support a block or a strike that that enters from the side. In the Wado version the hips open out in counter direction to the hand technique which is tsuki. We refer to this as opening the body. Rather than blocking/striking from the side the arms travel directly down the seichussen. It can be used as a direct strike but it is also ideal to perform “Noru” which is where you ride your opponents attacking technique whilst simultaneously striking. By rotation the body in a counter direction you are not only generating power in the technique, you are also changing the shape of your body and your line - essentially you are reducing the surface area shown to your opponent and giving ukes technique the slip. If I think of anything else I will let you know. Sojobo
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As I say there is quite a lot there, but I will expand tonight. You mention about Bunkai - strickly speaking Wado does not have bunkai. Another important point to consider. Sojobo
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I don't know, Ota Sensei is Okinawan born and raised and trained under some of the top Okinawan karate masters. I don't think he made any mistakes within the video i.e. kara's translation. These are probably cultural and linguistic differences between Okinawa and mainland Japan. Japanese is not the native language of Okinwa. As I understand it the original character of Kara referred to China, but this was subsequently changed to "Empty". Empty in this respect pertains emptiness or purity of mind and body. The fact that the majority of Karate is done without weapons is not the reason it is called "empty hand". Sojobo
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These are not Kihon Gumite featured in this clip. The pair work detailed here is Kumite Gata which is a different set. Kumite Gata are only really practiced within the Wado-ryu renmei. The JKF Wado-kai and WIKF do not practice these (strictly speaking). Sojobo