sojobo

Perhaps those benefits Masterpain, shouldn't be viewed as being "peripheral" but rather as one of the main objectives. Sojobo

.WE - didn't add anything to it, it was there from the beginning. If anything WE in the west have stripped that away in the ill gotten belief that it was some mumbo jumbo "zen" hippy stuff that was added by people wanting to be more mystic about it. Not the case. Sojobo [/b]

I disagree, Karate is NOT a codified system of violence, because by definition that would make it an unwarrented, extreme form of aggression. Karate is a martial art that includes the practice of combat skills, but eventually goes way beyond. Kata is part of that process, but if that's not where you want to go then fair enough. sojobo

Well... not really, is it? Ballet is not defined by whether or not the dancer is "En Pointe". Sojobo

Today, people can make great sounding music without having to know how to play any musical instruments. If you view Kata based Karate - purely as a combat skill, or self protection system, then there are far more efficient methods to achieve your end goal. However; people learn how to play a piano, for example, not merely to make a nice sound, but as part of the challenge and sense of achievement that goes with acquiring the skills required to play. Although kata may have existed as the most functional way to transmit and preserve fighting methods (at the time), they have evolved into what we see today as a “discipline” that goes way beyond it surface level combat effectiveness. Kata is very much part of "budo" in this respect. The thing about practicing kata is that you can always improve on it and as such this famous quote springs to mind: “It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards.” I can fully understand why that way of thinking isn’t everyone cup of tea and I am not saying practicing non kata based martial arts can’t yield similar rewards, but I can’t help feeling that kata is what makes karate complete as a martial art - rather than just a codified method of violence. Sojobo

As long as it's you performing the kata (and you've not just copied the original DVD) then no, it's not illegal, as it is "you" that is performing the Kata and no-one owns the copyright to karate kata as a whole. Sojobo

Good topic Masterpain. I don't think they are cheap techniques btw, but I agree that they are not widely practiced in gendai dojo (particularly Karate dojo). They are all however techniques that are practiced regularly in koryu groups, and I wouldn't class them as "Ninja" techniques (I know you were joking with that btw). In fact they are meat and two veg techniques as it were, in most clasical budo schools - as they are in most "Self Protection" systems as ultimatley they share the same goals. But then again - if you look closely enough in Wado-ryu kata for example, you will find many of these techniques - and they are not that hidden. You mention for example "stepping on the foot of a retreating attacker”…. Well... that's exactly what the foot movement in the last move of Pinan Yondan is isn’t it? These moves / methods are all there - you just need a good instructor to enlighten you. @Bushidoman – in many if not most cases throws and sweeps are best facilitated by Kuzushi – Kuzushi means to off balance, stun, shock (physically and mentally). This is often achieved though “atemi” or striking – which is what you are describing here I think. One of my favourites is an open (back) hand finger flick to the eyes / bridge of nose . Not only does it have the “bop in the snot box” effect, but also means the fingernails cause damage to the lens of the eye (meaning your attacker will close his eyes and effectively become blinded) whilst you do whatever you need to after. I’ve got a bag load more but tbh – it’s not always the greatest of ideas sharing these types of things over the internet. Sojobo

No problem. "Empty Mind Films" have several martial arts vids on their YT channel. All very well made. http://www.youtube.com/user/emptymindfilms Sojobo

BTW for what it’s worth, it seems to me that the whole etiquette thing is far more exaggerated in gendai (modern) tma than it is in the "Koryu" of ancient Japan. In my Koryu dojo (a 17th century samurai kobujutsu) I call my instructor Steve. sojobo

Hi Shizentai, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it correct nomenclature - in Japanese martial arts - to use the term "sensei" after the instructors family name, if they are Japanese. However if they are not Japanese the "Sensei" comes first. So, Sensei Bob (well I guess really Bob's surname) is correct, where as it is Funakoshi sensei - if you are Japanese? Also, isn't Shihan more of recognision of office/status, rather than how you would address someone? It's like being a director of a company - you ARE a director but the staff don't address you as "Director Sojobo". Someone can be the "shihan" of a group (and have it shown as such on their business card as it were), but you still address them as "sensei" in the dojo? Sojobo

The Japanese have a term for it... Renshu sojobo

As I understand it, Shito-ryu has a double circle fist punch called Wa-zuki. In Wado we have a Wa-uke which is a technique where both arms block above the head with elbows slightly bent forming a circle. It is so named because the circle that the arms create resembles the appearance of the Kanji for the word "Wa" 和 In Karate, techniques are often named as a result of the shape they form compared to the Kanji. Yama-zuki is another example of this, Yama means mountain and the Kanji for mountain is 山. The arms in the Yama-zuki are the two smaller upright strokes, and the slightly longer central stroke is your head/body. Don't know whether that helps, but I would suggest that the technique is circular in form/appearance. bassaiguy - hasami means to pinch - ie a strike from both sides. Sojobo

Hi Dobbersky, I'm not too sure it's entirely correct to say that all (wado) kata lead to Chinto. I would agree that it is most proper to have learnt Seishan before learning Chinto and Naihanchi before Seishan etc., but one is not higher up the "league table" of importance than the other and you should not neglect the practice of any Kata that you have learnt before. Interesting to note that Otsuka sensei (the founder of Wado) actually pared down the amount of Kata in the system, suggesting that it was not important to learn any kata beyond Chinto. Toward the end of his life he flatly refused to teach any other kata (outside the nominal 9). If you think about it, the Pinan kata are "preparitory" in the respect that they converge, in the most part, into Kushanku (although I do accept that there are flavour from other kata). So really, if one excludes the pinan kata, Wado only has 4 main kata- Kushanku, Naihanchi, Seishan and Chinto. It is my understanding that these kata all have their particular purposes within wado's pedagogy. They are not the sole reason why they are practiced but... Kushanku - is practiced for stamina and endurance. Naihanchi - is practiced for working with inner circular stances which encourage the practitioner to develop sharp, powerful, efficient techniques that can be delivered without the use of large movements. Seishan - is practiced to further develop inner circular stances with the added dimension of dynamic tension. Chinto - is practice for balance and the convergence of all of the aforementioned properties. So, in Wado at least, the practice of Kata is not so much about the collecting of combative techniques (and Bunkai etc), but rather the honing of principles. That’s why, perhaps, Otsuka felt 9 kata was enough. Sojobo

Where are you seeing that the spine needs to remain vertical? Sojobo

Tai sabaki means "body management" (foot work is usually called ashi sabaki (foot/leg management)). Good advice though JZ. Sojobo

Agreed, and also, let's not forget that the subject of martial arts is a broad umbrella - if you get my meaning. My martial art training has taken up all of my adult life (and some). The things that were important to me when I was in my early twenties changed a little when I was in my thirties and again in my forties. Aspects were also skewed when I had to bring up a family, protect them and hold down a job. I've not yet one foot in the grave, but I have come to realise that martial art done properly covers all of the aforementioned - plus still has depth for me to plumb as I grow older. I have posted a bit of this before, It is by a Benito Benitez and to me sums up my martial arts training - where I am at the moment. I can also understand why this doesn't float everyone’s boat. Budo is a term used to describe those martial arts methods adopted from Bujutsu (warrior arts, term used for all Samurai martial arts methods), existing under the aspect of “the way”, (Do). The lethal Bujutsu combat techniques have developed over centuries, however, it was only after being combined with Zen philosophy in the beginning of the 17th century that they received an ethical content, thus becoming Budo (the way of the warrior). "Do” is a principle of Asian ideology, the term originating in Japanese Zen Buddhism. “Do” can be translated as way, path, maxim teaching philosophy, direction, principle or method. At the center of every Asian path there is always the practicing of a skill. However the goal is not the acquisition of any particular skill, but the expansion of one's own potential and the search for and development of one’s own capabilities and opportunities." Sorry for the long winded answer, but the practice of Kata is a very good way to realise these goals. Sojobo

In a nutshell?... Budo! If you need me to explain more I can? sojobo

I totally agree with you. That said, katrate – imo - is a martial art with more dimensions than just self defence. Remove kata from your Karate (because they lack what could be perceived as “immediate” combative efficiency) and you risk throwing out the baby with the bath water. Just my opinion fwiw. sojobo

Hi tallgeese, Have you studied a martial art that has solo kata as part of its pedagogy - to any great degree? No disrespect, but the "kata is outmoded as a form of training" is an argument that is mostly supported by people who don't train in a system that contain Kata – trained properly. Worse still - by people that have trained in a system that contains it for a short time - and consider that they know best. There is so much to kata training that goes way beyond the 2 dimensional aspects of "self defence techniques". You simply cannot explain it over an internet forum. Sojobo

A FB acquaintance of mine (and a very senior Budoka based in the US) posted this short vid. He introduced it by saying that he always struggled to explain to his friends and other non JMA's as to why he was fascinated with the traditional Budo of ancient Japan. Here was his answer: sojobo ps Toby... if you ever read this, sorry for knicking your stuff. sojobo

Fantastic, that's a win win for you. You have fun - you will be in great hands. Keep us posted. Sojobo

Yes I'am, about an hour away by bus and train. and thanks for your words! I am green with envy Shingo Ohgami is one of the worlds greatest Wado karate instructors. I have trained with him and his students many a time and he is well worth an hour on the train. http://www.wadokai.se/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=2&id=5&Itemid=16 sojobo

Can I ask Wastelander, what methodologies didn't you agree with? Certainly! Since my exposure to Wado-Ryu has been fairly limited outside of forums and a few practitioners I have trained with, I can't say that this applies widely to the style but I know that at least some Wado-Ryu practitioners practice kata but no bunkai. I don't agree with that practice even a little bit, but as I said I don't know how widely it applies. Thanks! Hmm, that’s interesting. Strictly speaking, and as I understand it, Wado doesn't utilise the "process" of bunkai or at least not in the same way that Okinawan styles do. That said, Wado kata is not just performed as a dance - even when done solo. Typically we use the term Keisetsu, which means to physically comment on a movement (by doing it against and opponent) - but then this is done without changing the basic shape of the technique found in the kata. This is different to the Okinawan approach of bunkai which essentially means to take apart. To less informed of course - this looks like a kinda half baked way to approach your kata training, but then when you consider that the majority of Wado's DNA come from Nihon Koryu Bujutsu - and then factor in the plethora of paired kata (with jujutsu origins) that we have (compared to Okinawan styles) as a result of that - then the picture becomes clearer. Basically, the Wado kata and the wado approach to kata can't be realised imo, unless they are practiced in tandem with Wado's paired kata. And it’s that marriage that non Wado practitioners can’t appreciate – because they have no exposure to our paired kata work. As I usually say to Okinawan karateka. Wado has a different approach – not better or worse just different. Sojobo

PS, you anywhere near Gothenburg?

http://www.kungsbackakarateklubb.se/ Swedish tho:P Good group. Ove Viggedal is not only a JKF Wado-kai 6th dan he also has a 2kyu instructor / examiner license and you have to be top drawer for that. You are very lucky to have that standard of Wado near you. I place a bet with you now - those guys are so good, I bet you will stick with them. Sojobo