sojobo

Hi, For those interested, you can watch live footage of the Judo Worlds being held in Paris here: http://212.227.28.227/live/index.php Enjoy Sojobo

Seoi-nage is a daunting throw - particularly for uke. There are ways the throw can be "assisted" though. My instructor teaches us to use our free hand to push against the small of tori's back as we are being thrown as part of the ukemi. Think of it like doing a front flip / vault in gymnastics - you use your arms to propel yourself round to land feet first, rather than straight on to your back. Your feet then absorb the initial impact. Well - that’s the theory anyway. Sojobo

With the same 3 kata? sojobo

A punch can be both a punch and a block. A block can also be a strike. There are no hard and fast rules in karate and most techniques you train in kata have direct application in a fight and often times they are multiple. I understand your point, but I am struggling with it a bit. In Kata, a punch “IS” a punch. In Bunkai/Oyo there may be extrapolations. My instructor often says "Kata is Kata and Kumite is Kumite". Oyo / Bunkai is the bridge between the two, but when learning and performing kata a punch should be done as a punch. Again this is where “Shu-ha-ri” comes in. Shu - Embrace the kata (ie do it exactly as it says on the box). Ha - Diverge from the Kata Ri - Discard the Kata Through this process, the practitioner uses the kata to evolve - the result (hopefully) being automatic/instinctive Kumite. But throughout the process the Kata remains constant, it is the blue print of the Ryu as it were that is ready to be picked up by the next student and so on. Sojobo

Out of interest, what style of Karate do you train in? sojobo

There is nothing hidden in "Kata" per-se, the form is the form - you perform it exactly as you sensei tells you to. Application, Oyo, Bunkai etc., is something else. It's where Shu-ha-ri comes in. Very important part of realising "kata". Sojobo

Yes!! All kata IS literal - in terms of movement - that's what makes it kata. To go beyond the "Omote" takes training and understanding of the broader art - and that's where a good sensei comes in. But at its "Omote" level - all kata IS literal. Sojobo

As a martial arts historian, I have real problems if I can't obtain hard facts or source material. Whilst the internet has a lot of rubbish on it - if you know where to look it is a great tool. Sure, I understand that some groups simply don't have a want, or need for one, but if you can't at least find something about the school, or its teachers on the web - I would be deeply suspicious. Sensei8 falls into this category - I like what he says - but can find little to substantiate his training record - short of what he tells us here. I feel sure there is more to it - but I just can't find it - and that would put the brakes on for me. sojobo

Is running a martial art? sojobo

I think what you are describing is a way to physically (and mentally) condition yourself. Granted, that is all part of being a martial artist, but it doesn't make what you are doing a martial art - or you a martial artist by doing it. Sojobo

No, a martial art is a fighting art. Back-up skills and trades don't fall into that category. I do understand where you are coming from, as many Koryu schools of ancient japan taught battlefield stratergy, signaling etc, etc, but these were part of a bigger picture and they still had that something that Parkour and dancer don't Sojobo

With the greatest of respect to bushidoman, he knows 4/5ths of sod all - as my old man would say. And that is a compliment btw. sojobo

Nahh, you're missing the point. The guys doing parkour do it for entirely different reasons. Ask yourself... What is the difference between a martial artist and a dancer? On the surface - nothing, but there is something "huge" that makes the difference... do you know what that is? Answers on a postcard to... Sojobo

LMFAO - It's a major no from me. and seriously.... Are you being serious??? Sojobo

Perhaps when you come down, Bob, you can show me this kata. In TKD, we do a form that seems to have a "back to the wall" theme, called Po Eun. We do it at 2nd degree black, though. I do think Choi might have pulled some of Niahanchi for it. If you're ever in blighty, I'll teach the the Wado-ryu version also. sojobo

He did, read the references to noru. Hi Ueshirokarate. Noru is kinda like riding a technique. It's origins are probably more sword orientated, but in essence - as a thrust comes in you run it through rather than pushing it off. Does that make sense to you? sojobo

That's sad imo, if that's what or why (re)getting black belt means to you. sojobo

Otsuka said it was "very deep". There is no doubt that during his training time with Motobu Choki - he was exposed to some very important lessons in terms of understanding what was underneath the surface. In his book, Ohgami sensei says that practicing it developes short powerful movement (as opposed to large techniques that are too slow). It trains the core muscles of the body (some may even say it trains the tanden) - but in this respect its practice delivers far more than technique. Otsuka trained in Shindo Yoshin Ryu (Koryu Bujutsu) before he trained Karate. The school has solo kata they called Nairiki no Gyo and these are designed to manifest core strength through correct movement and stability etc. I’d put money that Otsuka saw similar potential in Naihanchi kata and perhaps that’s what he means by it being "deep". Like Ueshirokarate, I don't, and never have, bought the "back against the wall” theory - I think it’s one of those urban myths that has been developed mostly by us here in the west. Sojobo

shimata-dachi... wow, haven't heard that expression for a while sojobo

Ok You asked, Here is a very interesting essay (that you've probably not read) abouth Naihanchi. It is written by Tim Shaw a senior Wado sensei, but he also details some excellent history. http://www.wadoworld.com/history/naihanchienigma/introduction/introduction.html [edit] be sure to click on the "next" at the bottom as it is several pages long. Sojobo

Nothing in karate early history is "fairly well documented", including what you just said. There are those who believe that the Pinan Katas are a broken down version of another kata (chanan). What you stated is just one theory. If we were going back into the 15th and 16th century then you are correct. Itosu however did his stuff in the 19th and 20th century and that is fairly well evidenced. I said broadly speaking - I was aware of other influences such as Gojushiho and Chiang -nan, but these were minilmal by comparion. sojobo . If you have documentation that disproves what I said in the last post, please share it with me. I am a voracious reader on karate's history and am not aware of anything other than quoted opinions on Itosu's creation of the pinan's. One school stating that they are the chanan kata broken down into five seperate kata's, the other school stating he adopted techniques he knew from elsewhere and softened them for younger students. That said, I do hope we can continue the dialogue thus far, keep the thread on track and back to technical application of the pinans to real world fighting.I'll PM you some details so as to keep this thread on the straight and narrow. Sojobo

Nothing in karate early history is "fairly well documented", including what you just said. There are those who believe that the Pinan Katas are a broken down version of another kata (chanan). What you stated is just one theory. If we were going back into the 15th and 16th century then you are correct. Itosu however did his stuff in the 19th and 20th century and that is fairly well evidenced. I said broadly speaking - I was aware of other influences such as Gojushiho and Chiang -nan, but these were minilmal by comparion. sojobo

Well, I never said it was a strike either - that is one option. In Wado pinan however (whether block or strike), it is done a tsuki (thrust) not a harrai (sweeping) block. sojobo

Itosu is famed for creating the pinan kata for children’s schools, so that karate could be safely and easily incorporated into the school systems physical educational programme. It is fairly well documented that the pinans - broadly speaking - are bite sized pieces of Kushanku. Sojobo

So... how is it done at your club? Researching kata is easy these days (well if you know how to navigate through the tons of crud on the internet) - but "realising" kata is an entirely different thing. Weren't your earlier posts about understanding how others made kata work for them? Sojobo