sojobo

What are the 7 wards? Sojobo From a 1300s manual on sword and buckler fencing from Germany, the 7 wards are basic offensive and defensive postures that techniques come from. I am aware of the Fechtbuch manuals - mainly because one of my students is an expert in medieval combat. He has a very enviable job as he is a Knight at the tower of London - I kid you not. I will ask him about the 7 wards when I see him next, but tbf - he would be first to say that what is written in books is no substitute for what is borne out in the field of battle. European Medieval combat has been “rediscovered” and re-pieced together by enthusiasts. This is different to Japanese Bujutsu where the actual practice of it has never ceased. Sojobo

What are the 7 wards? Sojobo

As with many things, there is “Iai” and there is “Iai”. As my instructor would explain, "Iai" more literally means to adapt to ones environment - and I think that is the more important lesson that is being learnt from its practice - in terms of a modern day application. Yes, it was important that the base principles and stratagems remained constant and transmitted across all disciplines. Failure to do so would be pretty terminal. In Japanese Bujutsu, such martial teachings are referred to as "Sogo Bujutsu" or comprehensive fighting systems. The reason of course why hoplologists like Draeger latched on to Japanese Bujutsu (as opposed to the theory or writings behind medieval European fighting systems), is due to the fact that they are still extant and practiced / communicated in exactly the same way there were 400+ years ago. It is more of a primary source in this respect. Sojobo

My guess is that it is technique and mental resolve. My style of karate does not tend to feature it - apart from some groups you dust it off for embu. Referred to in Japan as Tameshiwari (wood test), it draws some parallels with Tameshigiri (test cutting (with a sword)) which I have done with my Koryu group. The original purpose of Tameshigiri was not the test the swordsman, but to test a new blade. However in more modern times it has become a way to manifest ones skills. Given that a karateka's weapon is his/her hands then I would suggest that Tameshiwari is a test of one’s technique both physically and mentally. On the re-breakable vs natural wood debate – I’m kinda with Sensei8 here. As I say – I don’t do breaking, but I can understand (through my Tameshigiri) the added dimension of a “natural” target each time as opposed to one that you have broken several times before. After you have broken something once, the mental barrier is gone – where as every natural wood board is (potentially) different. Sojobo

It's not bad Bob, it's just that it is hard enough to understand / realise this stuff in the dojo, let alone over the ether. Sojobo

It's interesting as the Wado version (Wanshu) does not drop to the knee. The knee bends but it is to facilitate the movement into gyaku neko ashi - dachi (reverse cat stance) which is needed to avoid the kick. This type of movement features a fair amount in our senior paired kata - where we move off the attacker’s line but also rotate our body to avoid the strike. This is followed by irimi (entering technique) where we move into our opponent to neutralise them. This is why perhaps that we do not bottom out the knee as it inhibits your ability to move efficiently on the counter movement. Sounds like you think like a Wadoka Bushido man. Sojobo

That’s a very interesting statement. I have no real frame of reference as XMA is still very much in the minority here in the UK. Isn't it likely though, that even if these XMA guys started in a "traditional" dojo - it (the Dojo) was probably one that leant away from the hard core traditional and more toward the sport / display stuff? Either that or the clubs they trained with didn't have enough to keep them there for one reason or another. Isn't XMA very lucrative for some of these top players? Sojobo

I would only attempt to train Makiwara with the guidance of an experienced person. You may hurt yourself otherwise. It is not like a Jane Fonda workout Vid - you can’t learn this stuff safely without an instructor. Sojobo

Did you mean that they probably would NOT have done XMA?

I don’t know how it is in the States, but we have no "officially" recognised NGB (National Governing Bodies) of Karate here in the UK. We have several that claim to be, but none are. Reference the insurance thing. Here in the UK all we have to do is to demonstrate that we operate safely - have a first aid qualification and have a suitable certification within a group that allows you to teach the martial art in question. Now there’s the thing, if there is no recognised NGB – who issues the certification? This is why more and more groups (and individuals) are gaining NVQ (National Vocational Qualifications) which are generic sport coach qualifications recognised by the Government - however the sad thing about this is that you can have instructors who have the paperwork to start an MA club but don't actually know much about the MA they are teaching!! I've seen both ends of the spectrum - great martial artists who really know their stuff - but probably had none of the qualifiers to get an insurance policy - as well as the most qualified (from and insurance point of view) instructors who haven’t a clue really about the art they are teaching. Sojobo

Hi FortuneCookie As Bushidoman suggests, it sounds like you are thinking of the Makiwara, however it is bit of a misconception that they exists to harden ones knuckles. Training Makiwara is more about engendering things like correct distance timing and mechanical body alignment. Sojobo

I definitely view Iaido and Western Swordsmanship arts as historical Martial Arts. I do think that the concepts you learn in them can apply to present day, even if you only find a stick in your hands to defend yourself with. There are definitely better, more modern weapons with which to defend oneself with. I would agree - although I am not sure quite how the Iai that I been taught would work out with a stick. But, I can see perhaps how the principles of movement could be viewed as beneficial albeit from a educational viewpoint - in terms of engendering good focus and body mechanics etc. Ah, but it does. XMA techniques are based from many basic techniques and many basic kicks. They are just put in a different context. Not sure - as a kick without combative intent or purpose is not a martial technique (irrespective of its tenuous origins) - it is just a movement and in the case of XMA - trained mostly for the judges and the crowd. Sojobo

If your instructor no longer teaches karate - how are you learning it? Sojobo

Yes here: http://www.shitokai.com/cyberacademy.php The extensive glossary section will help you with the terms also. Sojobo

I posted this recently in the thread entitled define Effective. It may help: And thats why I voted other - as I consider what I do as Budo and why I started. Sojobo

You are welcome Jeffrey. Roberto is a friend of mine. He also has some great dvd's Here is a link to his website: http://www.wado-ryu-book.com/wadoryu-karatedvd.php Sojobo

There may be another end result; that's fine. Along the way, though, the aquisition of Martial Skill in a timely manner to allow for effective self-defense should be the core, as you mentioned. Self-defense should always be there. I think we agree there, perhaps. Well bushido_man96, I think we are nearly there lol. I would say that "martial technique" should always be there, as "self defence" implies something a little different. I guess for the sake of Sensei8's thread, we will have to call a truce - and anyway, maybe this sort of stuff is better realised in the dojo (or even better a cold beer after ). Sojobo

Granted, all martial arts have at their core the study of a martial skill - be that ancient or modern. However; the end result of studying a martial art does not always have to be the acquisition of self defence skills (in the modern context). When I practice Iaido, I do so with focus and intent - and of course martial technique (no point otherwise) however these skills alone would not allow me to defend myself in a pub brawl (unless I had my sword with me lol). But that does not mean Iaido is not a martial art, because it is a specific martial skill that one has chosen to study. No, because XMA has no basis in real martial technique (ancient or present day). Sojobo

Hi Jeffrey, I am not sure what grade you are in Wado (or what group you are with) but this may be of interest to you: Taken from Roberto Danubio's Book Wado-ryu Karate-do - Budo in Wado Ryu Karate: "Budo is a term used to describe those martial arts methods adopted from Bujutsu (warrior arts, term used for all Samurai martial arts methods), existing under the aspect of "the way", (Do). The lethal Bujutsu combat techniques have been developed over centuries, however, it was only after being combined with the Zen philosophy in the beginning of the 17th century that they achieved an ethical content, thus becoming Budo (the way of the warrior). Do is a principle of Asian ideology, the term originating in Japanese Zen Buddhism. Do can be translated as; way, path, maxim, teaching philosophy, direction, principle or method. At the centre of every Asian path there is always the practicing of a skill. However the goal is NOT the acquisition of any particular skill, BUT the expansion of one's own potential and the search for and development of one' own capabilities and opportunities. Training Goals As in other martial arts, the training goal is NOT the acquisition of self defence techniques or the self satisfaction derived from exhibiting superiority over someone else. In Karate one strives to utilise one’s own capabilities and opportunities through the use of technique (waza). To achieve this one must first learn self awareness and the ability to think, and one must practice not to expend energy, but to transform it through movement." Just thought as a Wadoka (and the fact the Wado and Budo are indelibly entwined) it may interest you. Sojobo

At what stage is a Karateka knowledgable enough to be able to decide whether something ineffective? Also, how do we know whether it is the technique or the person that is lacking. I often see students doing kansetsu (joint locks) incorrectly. When I show them the correct way their eyes light up (well they usually yelp a little first lol). Point is, if that had gone unchecked and the student had not fully learnt the technique, they might decide to drop it - thinking it didn't work. So to answer your question - how do we test it - by doing on each other - Kumite Sojobo

Indeed, and this is where the student needs to be patient and above all trust his sensei. He/she may not be able to give the student the answer on a plate but "should" have been in that students shoes as it were and therfore know how to guide. Sojobo I have no problem with these concepts, as long as there are concepts and preparations in place and taught by the system that make self-defense more attainable in the student's experience with the system. Any system that takes 10 years to make one able to competently defend oneself is not doing what it is supposed to do as a Martial Art. You seem obsessed with martial arts only being about self defence. Self defence is a facet of some martial arts teachings and a by-product of good training in many cases but it is just that a facet. For many it is not the overriding reason to study Martial Arts and doesn’t need to be imo. But to each their own. Sojobo

The good instructor will always do this imo. It kinda goes without saying. Sojobo

Couldn't open the vid where I am (copyright issue), but I don't think anyone was serious about the "because I said so" thing. Sojobo Check this out,then. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Milgram_shock_experiments Some people do tend to place a sensei in a more than human role and follow without question. Too many questions can be annoying and disruptive, and small children should be taught to be obedient, but a teacher should be able to give an answer to valid questions. When I get some punk saying "that won't work", I show the that yes, yes it does. Rather unpleasant. But when asked how or why does that work, I should be able to answer. With respect, I think it is quite easy to explain why "kansetsu waza" hurts. However, try explaining to the Punk why he should first train many years of "Nairiki no Gyo" (internal flexibility and strength building exercises used by Koryu Bujutsu like Shindo Yoshin Ryu for example) so as to be able to get himself in a position to be able to efficeintly apply that Kansetsu waza in the first place. Difficult. Are you with the Bujinkan? Sojobo

Couldn't open the vid where I am (copyright issue), but I don't think anyone was serious about the "because I said so" thing. Sojobo

Indeed, and this is where the student needs to be patient and above all trust his sensei. He/she may not be able to give the student the answer on a plate but "should" have been in that students shoes as it were and therfore know how to guide. Sojobo