still kicking

That's really interesting, DWx. Although I had been aware of weight bearing exercise being important for bone strength, I wasn't up on Wolff's law. I wonder if making contact with pads on also has some positive impact on bone strength, even if not as much. This discussion has really gotten me thinking about the issue of levels of contact. Obviously one of the things we work to develop, as we improve and advance in rank, is control -- hitting the target we are aiming at as hard as we want to and mean to (mangled grammar, I know). There seems to be quite a bit of variation between different styles, and between different schools within the same style. Even within the same school, what to one person seems to be a reasonable amount of contact, to another seems way too hard. If the goal is to stop just short of serious injury, in some cases that might be discovered only in retrospect. Maybe it's mostly a matter of knowing yourself and your sparring buddies. In any case, I think it's kind of hard to reach agreement on this topic, knowing that there are people from all kinds of styles and philosophies on here, but it's fun trying.

Forgot to mention... Tiger1962 says: I totally agree with this! It amazes me how often at the top levels in MA, principle # 7 (in our school/organization) gets neglected; that is, "I will train with the spirit of humility". While there are many senseis/instructors worthy of great respect for not only their skills, but also their character, I think it's sad that there are so many, all the way up to heads of major international organizations, whose need for power and control seems to increase over time rather than decrease. What's up with that? How can we expect little white belt kids to live up to that, with this kind of behavior? Rant off.

sensei8 says: Yes, but on the other hand, it probably wouldn't occur to me to ask in an initial interview if I would be required to do pushups with curry powder in my mouth in order to obtain a black belt. I wonder if it was mild curry powder or super hot curry powder, that might make a difference.

I should probably just let this go, but I am stubborn, I guess. The thing is, we do spar with a fairly decent level of contact, I think. For brown and black belts we use what I would call medium hard contact to the body -- hard enough so if you're not built up it will hurt -- and light contact to the face and head. We do not use any chest protectors, but it's that bone on bone thing that is so painful, and I do not see the point, so I like to use shin and forearm pads. It turns out that in my little episode last week, I got some "regular" bruises on one ankle and forearm, which though painful at the time was no big deal. Now they are just greenish purple reminders of how much fun I was having. However, on the other side, which is actually the lower outside part of the shin, just above the ankle, I may have a bone bruise. It is still extremely painful to even touch it, though I iced it a lot the first couple of days. Even if not a bone bruise, whatever it is is definitely more than just a regular bruise, and though even if not permanently disabling, is definitely slowing me down. I haven't gone in for an x-ray or MRI, since whatever it is I know I just need to go easy and take ibuprofen, but it might take a while. In any case, even if it is a sign of general wimpiness, this kind of pain bums me out because it could have been prevented. But I'm trying to have a good attitude. Anyway, I will now stop arguing with you, Bushidoman.

bushido_man96 says: I'm not sure I agree with this, but I'm not sure I disagree, either. (Nothing like sounding wishy-washy.) Mostly the way I look at it is, I don't generally go around looking for a fight, on the street I mean, and with any luck I will not have to actually fight to defend myself at all, or very infrequently. I'm pretty sure that if I were attacked I would not mind getting bumps and bruises, or even worse on feet and legs, hands and arms, in order to protect vital organs. But this would presumably be a rare occasion, as opposed to several times a week in class! I do see the point of being accustomed to taking a little pain now and then, but somehow that seems to come with no effort, even with pads. Of course one can never know how they will respond to any particular situation until they're in it, but from what I know of myself and basic psychology and physiology, when you are under attack you are very ramped up and somewhat oblivious to pain. At any rate, it's a good topic for discussion, but I am much more to the side of preventing permanent injury that will be a hindrance to my training. Or maybe I'm just chicken. Oh well...

Twistkick kid says: WOW.

Isshinryu5toforever, I am sure you are right about more experience helping, and believe me, avoiding getting those tender parts hit is a big priority. As I think about it, I think part of the problem when doing set drills, where you have to do a particular attack, is that you are forced to do a technique that you would probably not have done in a sparring match. In other words, if the instruction for that particular drill is to do mawashi geri off the back leg, the defender knows it is coming and so I don't really have an opening. Especially when the defender is much taller, with mawashi geri it is hard to get it coming around from the side. In a free sparring match, I am not going to attempt that unless the opponent is open, obviously. I guess I like the drills better where we have a choice of several attacks. Oh well, it's all good training, but next time I will be using the pads!

Last night was a special training, and the fun part was that we got to practice running sparring matches, as in tournament sparring/calling points. That was the fun part. Before that we did a lot of line exercises and sparring drills, and for some reason I got extremely banged up. It seemed like my timing was really off, for one thing. But it was also because I usually use shin and instep pads, but because it was so hot and it was just drills and not free sparring at first, I decided to go without them. First I collided with an elbow with my right ankle on mawashi geri, and it swelled up into a big goose egg. Then the next time through I got bashed on my left ankle, and that side swelled up as well! It made me wonder if there is something I can do to toughen up the non muscular parts, i.e. maybe if I don't use pads at all it will make those parts tougher? Or maybe they will just get bruised all of the time. Anyway, I got through free sparring OK by avoiding mawashi geri, then we did a little kata, then we went home, then I got out the ice packs. Ahhh.

There is a student in our school who trains with several major challenges, including sight impairment (blind in one eye and limited sight in the other), partial hearing impairment, and various learning disabilities. I also think she is the most inspiring student in the school. Even though her skills physically are still not that good, after 3 years -- she is frankly uncoordinated and slow to learn -- I have never seen anyone more determined and tenacious! Especially after hearing her talk about all of the extra measures she has had to take, such as having to map out the dojo in her head so she doesn't crash into things, having to be on the colored part of the mat because on the white part everything blends together, challenges trying to hear what sensei is saying, and because of sight impairment can't read lips, etc. Wow! She is at class all the time, and just does not give up. I will say this, there is definitely no impairment of spirit!

JusticeZero said: JusticeZero, I see your point, and agree with you as far as the endurance part. It's just that I tend to think it would show a certain disrespect for my body, to willingly and purposely undergo training that would lead to "serious injury". But maybe I'm just an unmotivated slacker wimp. Seriously, though, it seems to me that going through this kind of endurance exercise would be great, with more moderate contact. Maybe that would somewhat detract from what was proven or demonstrated, but in my mind it would be more than compensated for by the fact that I wouldn't have to train for ever after with some kind of chronically disabling injury. To each his/her own, of course.

Sensei8 wrote: Interesting topic. When I shared it with a few of the women in my karate dojo yesterday morning, one of them said that a woman would never need to to that. It does seem like a particularly macho thing to do, but it is fascinating and impressive nevertheless. We use only light to medium contact in our school, which I think combined with bag and mitt work at full contact is fine preparation for real fighting, if it came to it. I did have a bit of confirmation of that once, when I strange guy coming up some stairs behind me grabbed my butt, for some inexplicable reason. My response was to spin around and roundhouse kick him to the head immediately. Though it was only medium contact, at least it surprised him and gave me a second to get ready to go all out if need be. But that was just one incident. In any case, I guess what it comes down to is that I am ambivalent/undecided what I think about the wisdom of even trying this "feat", but lean slightly to being against it because I think it's foolish to abuse and injure one's body to such an extent. I don't think I see the point. At the same time, I totally respect the desire and willingess to test oneself to such a degree. It's just that I'd want to preserve myself to fight another day, if possible. Maybe that's why I don't practice a full contact style.

todome wrote: Todome, I took the liberty of quoting you in the Testing and Promotions thread, since it seems to me that's where it belongs. Sorry you didn't make it this time, but I hope you are not discouraged. Your comment brought to mind something one of my 8th Dan iaido senseis said, after some students had tested without getting promoted... "Don't worry about it, I've failed hundreds of times". He said this with an attitude of humor and inner peace -- I mean he is 8th Dan after all, so he did manage to get promoted enough times. Obviously the idea was to just keep training and don't give up. In iaido I am still quite the beginner (less than a year), and haven't even tested yet. I don't care about rank in iaido right now, for several reaonse, one of which is that I know I'm not very good yet. Karate is a different story, however. In my karate school we have quarterly "evaluations" rather than "promotion tests". The idea is that it's a time to evaluate the school as a whole, and how we are doing, and if people are ready to be promoted then they will be. I think part of the idea is to take some of the pressure off about "testing", since you can go into it without necessarily expecting to be promoted. This works only to a certain extent, depending on your personality, driven-ness, and etc. At intermediate levels (4th kyu up to shodan) it's normal to take at least 6 months to a year to move up, so I find that I'm not upset if I don't get it after 3 months. If I don't get it at 6 months (assuming I've been training hard and frequently), I do get upset, and if I don't get it after 9 months I am distraught. Of course I'm not even shodan yet, and after that it takes longer. But the point I'm trying to make... yes, there is one... how can we get through these times of discouragement, when we have been training hard and are very disappointed about not getting the next rank? I think it becomes easier and easier to say that rank doesn't matter the higher rank we obtain -- at least that's been my experience -- but it can be almost devastatingly disappointing to not pass when we expect to at times. I think it's because it seems like a reflection of our teacher's respect and esteem, or the lack thereof. I am wondering what people do or say to themselves to get through these times. Any thoughts?

sensei8 wrote: Or you could drive without a license, of course. Perhaps that would be more parallel to cutting ties with an association and continuing to train?

Sensei8, you have the best stories -- though so far nothing has topped the one where you tried on your Dai-Soke's belt!

Thanks, Sensei8. Yes, it feels great! The best part is the renewed sense of energy and committment for training. I am especially feeling a strong desire to refocus on basics and basic kata, so that I can be a good example, and eventually a good teacher, to those "under" me. It's fun!

I wasn't sure whether to post this here, or under "Internal Arts". I think it fits under both equally, but anyway... In light of dealing with a recent promotion test, I have been thinking a lot about the issue of performance anxiety. Right before the evaluation my teacher gave me an article on the subject, which really helped. The article started with an example of an international tennis champion who "choked" in an important competition, and ended up losing when it had seemed like it was in the bag. The article goes on to discuss implicit vs. explicit learning, basically muscle memory vs. thinking about it, and the different parts of the brain involved in each. What it brought up for me, is how to find the balance between just letting your body take over, vs. being mentally focused and cognizant of each move. And what happens when you are "in the zone"? It seems to me it involves a balance between the two ways of being, and presumably the two parts of the brain involved. More importantly, I guess, is how to make it happen, but I guess if I knew the answer to that I could bottle it and get rich. Right now I am only talking about kata performance, since I think fighting or responding to attacks is pretty much automatic, or an aspect of "implicit learning". If you have to stop to think about it, it's too late. In any case, it seems to me that no matter how many millions of times you have worked on a kata, you would never get to the point where you would perform it with the same abandon of, say, dancing to reggae music. I remember watching an Olympic figure skater on tv, before he was about to perform, going through his routine in his head and talking to himself about each move, reminding himself of details all along the way. This was someone who was way on top of his game, and was not just leaving it to "muscle memory". What I try to do when performing kata in a high stress situation -- tournament or testing/evaluation -- is to find a happy medium. First, of course, practice it a gazillion times (or so it seems), trying to implement all of the feedback I have been given. Then when performance time comes, I just tell myself "trust your body", "take your time", but still stay mentally focused and "talk myself through" the main sticking points. This is the best I have come up with so far. Of course it is hard when there is a lot of energy running through your body, usually because we are attached to the outcome. so it helps to remember that I am doing this for fun, I am incredibly fortunate to be able bodied enought to be able to train at all, and the like. I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts about how you deal with performance anxiety? Thanks.

Well, I did get promoted after all! The testing/evals was on Tues. and Wed. evening, but I've been a little too wiped out to post before now. The thing is, I was not really expecting to be promoted, since I just got 4th kyu 3 months ago, but on the other hand, just objectively speaking, I felt that my karate skills warranted a higher rank. As I have gone on and on about before, the disturbing part for me has been questioning my teacher's judgement, not just the little issue of wanting the status of a higher rank. With this promotion I feel much more at peace that they really are open to seeing people as individuals. Yes, it still generally takes a very long time for people to promote through the ranks, but the reason I stay is that it is very good training. Being a lower rank does not hold you back from what you can practice, so it doesn't matter in that regard. I have checked in to a few other karate schools while questioning some of the policies in my current school, and I think I am in the best place for me. One school I looked into seemed to promote people too fast, and their brown and black belts did not look up to snuff to me. There is another school that I respect a great deal -- we meet their students in tournaments a lot, and they have great attitudes, great basics, and etc, but seem to be a little more generous with getting people ahead. However, the school is a 15 mile drive across town. I can't see doing that drive several times a week, as opposed to less than a mile where I am now. Anyway... as for specifics of the evals... I felt really good in my standing basics, moving basics and combinations, 3-step and free sparring. As far as kata, it's always so hard to know because even one little spot where you don't strike quite as strongly as you might, or not having your elbow pulled tight enough, on and on all of the myriad details that we work to perfect all the time, can be enough, seemingly, to keep you back. At least that's what they say, but maybe it's just that they don't think you're ready for other reasons, and tell you you need to fix those details before you can get the next rank. At any rate, I felt that the overall performance of both of my kata was strong, but in one there was a very slight but important moment, right at the end, where my cat stance wobbled a bit, but sensei gave me credit for the fact that I didn't show it on my face, and quickly pulled it together. I just want to say thanks for all of your support. Near the end of Wed evening, before I had found out the results, I was thinking of going home and posting on here to report on events (which I turned out to be too tired to do!). I think I would have been OK with not passing this time, too, but of course it feels better to get it! The point is, it helps to know that regardless of outcome there is support and encouragement to be had!

You may be right, Ninjanurse. It's just that it feels like a bit of a catch-22 situation sometimes, i.e. passively submitting to what feels like injustice is not how I live my life in general. However, on a positive note, my teacher has always been open to discussion. As long as the injustice is only about inequities in ranking, and there are so many positive things, including some excellencies in teaching, I think you are right that I have to just stay open and learn and be respectful. I am working on it!

I've been thinking about what I just wrote, and wanted to add something. It's really not that I'm just a belt chaser, thought that might be that's how it sounds. I think it's just that in our school getting a black belt is such an onerous process -- much harder than it has to be, in my opinion -- that it's hard not to have a lot of energy on it. When I was training in this school before, we still had "high standards", but people generally made black belt by 6 or 7 years. Of course those of us who were unusually talented, not to mention humble, made it in 4 1/2. This seems more reasonable to me, allowing for 4-5 days a week of training. It just makes me feel cynical when it seems like it's a lot faster to get it in most other schools -- what does it all mean? I would love to be above it all, but I think it's only human to want recognition for your abilities, when you work so hard. Oh well. I can't help but think that most of the people who say "oh, rank doesn't matter, what's important is that you enjoy the training", already have their black belt. It also makes me sick how important it becomes, it really is kind of disgusting sometimes. Thanks for listening to my rant.

I'm testing for my next rank this week, which would be 3rd kyu/brown belt. Right now I'm kind of depressed and anxious about it. First I should say that in our school we do quarterly evaluations, where everyone is expected to participate, and if you are ready to be promoted you will. I just got 4th kyu 3 months ago, so I am mentally prepared for not getting it this time. From reading other postings on these forums, it seems like our school is ridiculously slow to promote people, at least at the higher ranks. We have people who train 3-5 times a week who have been green or brown belts for years, but there are always more details to fix. It typically takes at around 8 years for teenagers to get to shodan, 10 years or longer for adults. That's training 4 or 5 days a week for most of that time, so it's quite intense. Anyway... The reason this is bothering me.. if anyone has read my earlier postings on the subject... is that I used to train in this school years ago and had reached shodan, but it was not on the books because my previous teacher had split with the organization, blah blah blah. Dojo politics -- sigh. I didn't mind starting over, and felt that I should, since I had been gone for so long. I have actually worked through the ranks quickly, compared to how my current teacher does things, having reached 4th kyu after 3 1/2 years. This is on top of my previous 6 1/2 years, though. Even though it was 20 years ago, the basics and kata were stored deep in my muscle memory, and once I was back in shape things came back to me amazingly well, to me. Objectively speaking, I am performing at a much higher level than many of the brown belts above me. I know this sounds obnoxious, but it's true. My teacher's position, though, is that rank is not in comparison to others, but is to measure our own improvement. I agree with this to a point, but in my view it also has to be somewhat in comparison to others, or it becomes meaningless. I mean, taken to a ridiculous degree, you could have someone new coming in who was performing at world champion level (not likely, I know, but I'm trying to illustrate a point here), and you would promote them more slowly than anyone else because they had so much ability. Then someone comes in in a wheelchair, and you give them a black belt because they are able to stand up! Well maybe this is a silly example, yet in a way is not far from how our school seems to operate sometimes. I know that the proper "karate attitude" is to just do my best, take the results, whatever they are, with equanimity, and keep training. That's what I aim to try to do. I'm just afraid in advance that I will be very angry if I do well and don't get it. It's really not just about ego, that's a small part of it. The real issue is that it makes me question my teacher's judgement and the basic fairness and integrity of the process, which I have before. I have, at several times since my return, considered leaving the school for this reason, but always seem to come down on the side of staying. I love the training, we are known for being a really good school, and it's like a 2 minute drive from my house. But I can't stand feeling that my teacher is unfair and inequitable in ranking judgements. Well, sorry for the long post. The evaluations are Tues and Wed evening. My plan is to go through my kata at a slow and easy pace numerous times tonight, and in class tomorrow night, along with other light workout things, trying to integrate all of the feedback I have been given, but mostly to be relaxed and centered. Then to meditate and work on my attitude. After all, being a green belt for another 3 or 6 months would not be nearly as bad as being nuked by a hostile nation, for example. I've got to keep it all in perspective. But as I already said, the hard part is questioning my teacher's judgement. I guess I am not yet to the point where I can just train there without doing that, or just train there and accept that I don't always agree with my teacher's judgement. Maybe that's the goal. Thanks very much for reading my long rambling post.

If I didn't have karate I would do another martial art. Since I already do iaido I would increase that, and maybe add aikido. If I couldn't do any martial arts at all? I would probably stay home and watch TV and drink too much. I'm not saying that's what I hope I would do, but I might. All I know is that I have never found an activity that I became obsessive about like MA, and all of the other forms of "exercise" I have tried have been a chore rather than a joy. So I hope I never have to give up MA!

For Shito-ryu practitioners, I would recommend shitokai.com. They have videos of many Shito-ryu kata, as well as a lot of other useful information. I practice Shito-ryu, though it was interesting to me to see that even though it's the same style, the way they do kata differs from our school, sometimes a lot, but sometimes only a little. Differences aside, I have found this site to be very useful when I have just learned a new kata, and am trying to memorize the gross motor movements. When it comes to details, not so much, because there are often great differences, but it's helpful at the beginning, and there's a lot of other useful stuff on their website as well.

Unless you want to.

To me the point of breaking in a belt is not so I can look cool and like I've had it for a long time, but for simple practicality. Usually we recycle colored belts and you can get a used one, but for one of my colored belts there were no used ones available in my size. The new one was so stiff that I literally had to keep on retying it throughout the class -- like every minute or so! This got really frustrating, so here's what I did. I took it home and tied up up in a ball of knots, then soaked it overnight in cold water, then let it air dry. (This required some preplanning, as it took a couple of days to dry.) This helped a lot, and then I did it again the next week when I had a few days between classes. Then it was nice and soft, and stayed tied throughout the class!

I had been begging one of my sensei to teach Jion, because I love it, and finally I got my wish. (For some reason I seem to particularly like kata that come in sets, i.e. Jitte Jiin Jion, Rohai 1, 2, and 3, and the Bassais). Speaking of which... recently in the advanced class they taught a new kata, Matsamura-ha Bassai. This is another variation on the Bassai kata, and is considered to be more advanced than Bassai dai or Tomari Bassai. I went through it with the others, and learned the basic movements. Then I thought, "this is crazy". I realized that I had 4 other relatively new kata to work on -- Jion, Bassai dai (not totally new, but I think there is a lot to it), and 2 bo kata, Rohai no kon and Sakugawa no kon syo. There are only so many training hours available, after all, and I would rather focus on these others. But it was a little bit hard, because the other green and brown belts are working on the Matsamura kata along with the black belts. The funny thing, though, was that I told my sensei that I wanted to focus on the more basic kata, and then was feeling kind of proud about how humble I was being to pass up the opportunity to work on this really advanced kata with the other advanced students. I don't know, I just think it's funny to be proud of being humble. But maybe some of you know what I mean.