still kicking

I would like to win most valuable tournament competitor, winning golds in kata, kobudo, and kumite, in the 80 and up division -- not now, when I'm old enough of course! Actually, with the increased levels of health and well being that can be provided by MA's into old age, combined with advances in medicine, I think it is quite possible that there could be enough competitors to make up such a division. In truth, I will be very happy if I can just still be in it at that point, but I do like the idea of competing at that age, just to show that we can do it! If I don't win, I'll just have to train harder.

Once when I was training in our organization's home dojo in Hawaii (a rare occurrence), there were also about 6 visiting students from Japan present. They were all wearing white belts, and stood at the end of the line. As soon as we started training, though, it was very obvious that they were some degree of black belt, they were very skilled, not to mention humble and respectful. So that is my limited experience with training with Japanese people (as opposed to Japanese-Americans). It was also a good lesson on the importance or lack of importance of what belt we are wearing. If you are skilled it will show.

Except sometimes people put food in their mouth because it tastes good and they like it or maybe just because it's there, or maybe because they are depressed and lonely and it fills them up. Maybe for a combination of reasons, or different reasons at different times. Not to nit-pick, but concrete thinking isn't really a defense mechanism, it's a cognitive limitation. I don't think people are demonstrating concrete thinking when they say they train for fitness or self-defense or whatever. Since you seem to be interested in psychology and philosophy, you probably know that projection is a common psychological phenomenon, i.e. seeing in others things that are actually in ourselves. and then you say I enjoy analyzing things myself, to a point, but maybe some people really do want to just train for self defense, and sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

OK, I'll take a stab at the question (pun only partially intended). My reasons for training are the same as many others have said, fun, fitness, friendship, love for Japanese arts and culture, having a better chance to defend myself should the need arise. One thought I also had, only partially formulated, so don't laugh... when I am doing the hard and fast and powerful techniques, it's sometimes like I am fighting with everything that has ever angered and frustrated me, yet I feel peaceful inside. Like my body is doing the fighting and my mind is totally calm. Which kata is that, calm within the storm or something? I also want to think more about what it is about the aesthetics of Japanese arts in general that is so appealing to those who are passionate about them, (knowing others are practicing other MA's), but for me there is something in the Japanese arts that completely draws me. Don't have time to go into now, though, because I have to leave for class!

Martialart wrote: Four year old 6th dan, ha ha ha. Maybe they should just give them 10th dan at birth and save everybody a lot of trouble. (I know you were slightly exaggerating, right?)

Blade96, I hope you are not also kicking open glass doors!

Martialart, I just reread your original post, and you mention that there really are no other options in your area. In that case, perhaps your best bet is to grit your teeth and stick it out, so that you can get your rank and start teaching and grading in the way you think it should be done. Also, my bad for assuming your instructor was male. As a female martial artist myself, I should know better!

Martialart wrote: I don't think it is true that "no parent" would stand for it. I'm sure there are other potential students or parents who are turned off when they see the low quality of black belts, and will go somewhere else to train. If parents are informed of the standards and reasoning behind it ahead of time, they can choose whether they want their child to have quality martial arts instruction, or just have their "boy-king" wear a meaningless black belt, which, as others have said before, can easily be purchased at any martial arts supply outfit anyway. In my opinion, the instructor is selling himself short to think that this is the only quality of student he can attract. I don't know how big your town is, and maybe you feel that this is your only choice for now, but I wonder if in the long run it will bother you to be associated with this organization. It's a tough position to be in.

DWx wrote: Don't kick them out, but how about not promoting them until they measure up! Even young kids can learn what is expected, and that they have to measure up if they want the belt.

JAKEHE3078 wrote: Busted! OK, back to work.

Martialart wrote: Ummm... actually, they do. I can think of several in my area, including the school I train at, that would fit this description. It sounds like you have had some very negative experiences with MA schools, but don't give up, good ones are out there.

I have been thinking of giving my teacher, when it seems appropriate, a framed calligraphy of the kanji for "gratitude".

You know you're a martial artist when you ask your boss at work a question, he gives you an answer, and you say "hai". This actually happened to me yesterday. I was so embarrassed -- he must think I am really weird. Oh well, at least I didn't bow!

e_p, I think todome means because they'd all be dead. In my style, Shito-ryu, we spar medium contact, similar to many Shotokan schools, I think. Whether or not this will be useful in a "real fight" I don't know. My opinion/assumption/hope is that combining this type of practice with use of full power against the bags, and developing control over how much power you use in each situation, will result in some kind of effective response if needed in a self defense situation. Bottom line, knock wood, I've never been in a "real fight", and hope I never am. I enjoy the budo aspects of karate very much, and do think being able to "fight" is integral to it. Maybe if I sparred full contact regularly I would be better able to defend myself, but it seems paradoxical to me. I am interested in defending myself so I don't get hurt, but sparring full contact multiple times a week pretty much guarantees I will be hurt! Plus, it would be difficult to explain all the signs of battering at work. As Sensei8 says, nothing will please everyone, so it's a good thing there are many styles to choose from. I just can't resist saying... that saying about pleasing everyone really cracked my up, and reminded my of a kids' program I used to watch "long ago" -- I don't remember which one. It always ended with this saying... "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool mom!"

Chitsu, when did you start taking Car Park Jutsu? Or did you create that one yourself? I must say I am intrigued.

Witherspoon1987 wrote: Huh??? Oh, right, you're the one with the girlfriend who had a Bugs Bunny gi! Well, you didn't say she was 5 at the time. Awww, that's really cute.

Lupin1 wrote: Ha ha, I know that is a big no-no at many places, and I do understand it. I do think there is a happy medium between being a "belt chaser" and someone who is just going for a workout without any drive to get ahead, though. The thing is, even though I think my teacher is great in many ways, she would be the first to admit that she just doesn't think of some things. In some ways I don't fit the normal mode (in many ways, actually, but I won't get into that). I had already worked my way through all the ranks in our system, but it was so long ago that when I came back 4 years ago I was told that I'd have to do it all over again, which was OK with me. I was also told that we were no longer doing regular testing/evaluations, and my teacher right out admitted that she often didn't pay too much attention to when people were ready to be promoted, so if I thought I was ready and she hadn't said anything, I should just ask. I will spare you all the angst I have gone through over the past 4 years. What it comes down to, who wants to ask to be tested? It feels like having to beg for a date or something. I am now one of the training members serving on the board of directors at our school (non-profit), and feel very involved in issues of the well being of the school as a whole. I am particularly interested in issues of retention. Many people come and many people go, I know that is normal in any school. However, it seems to me that even though some people don't care about rank at all, in most cases people benefit from having the structure of regular testing, and being able to measure their progress. It's not even an issue of being "almost ready" at testing time, then having to wait 3 more months. When I first came back, there were people in the mid ranks (6th-4th kyu) who had been at the same kyu level for more than a year! I mean these were people who were training 3-4 times a week, and doing well for their level, but there was always room for improvement, and no set testing date. In my opinion, this creates a lot of unnecessary stress and anxiety. When it's a given that it's normally an 8-10 or more year trajectory to get through the ranks no matter what, then at least you need the little comfort of knowing when you are going to have a chance to try again. Jeesh, a person can only take so much. Of course we are all primarily motivated to just improve and deepen our karate, but come on! Anyway, I think things are going much better now in the school as a whole. With regular chances throughout the year to go through a formal evaluation, if you don't make it one time when you are hoping to, at least you know when you will have a chance to try again. I will also say, even though we are quite hierarchical and traditional on the floor, outside of that my teacher is very approachable and open to feedback as to how things are going and I really appreciate that. DWx, the way your school does it sounds great, as far as having testing and class going on at the same time, but we don't have enough room to do that, so evaluations/class is the same thing. Your system sounds very organized. The main thing, in my view, is to be thinking about it as a school, so the students know that their progress is important to you. So, we have another evaluation coming up at the end of May, and I am totally not expecting to get promoted yet this time, so it will be fun to just perform and see how everyone else is doing.

There are only 2 local tournaments we compete in, plus 2 that are out of town and some distance away. I try to do the 2 local tournaments, but have gone to a few of the away ones as well. We only support tournaments that are traditional and well run, which tends to limit the options quite a bit. Which I must say I am glad of, because I definitly have mixed feelings about tournaments! Every time I go to one, the cynical side of me questions once again why I am putting myself through this, which after all comes down to 8-10 hours of boredom interspersed with a few minutes of extreme stress, but for some reason I keep doing them. On the plus side, I do enjoy supporting other students from my school, which adds a few more good minutes, but mostly, above all, it's because of how much it improves my training. I think that many people who compete will say this, but I feel that training for a tournament focuses me so that I make as much progress in a few months as I might make in a year otherwise. Plus, there is always the glory of collecting new hardware. Still, it is really stressful and especially on a nice sunny day in spring it's sometimes hard to justify. You get better at taking care of yourself at tournaments, listening to music, going outside for walks, whatever, but the trick is to not be gone when they call your division, which has happened to me, and sensei was not happy, you can be sure of that. Many people in my school don't compete at all, it is optional, except in the year or two before black belt testing. Then you are supposed to do most of them. We have another one coming up next weekend, so I hope it rains.

I was wondering if all you sensei's (and others, if you like) could speak to the question of how you schedule testing. In the school I train at, we have "evaluations" rather than testing per se. The reasoning behind it is that everyone is expected to be in it, not just people who are ready to move up, and it's a chance for the instructors to see where the school is at as a whole, and also for individuals to get written feedback on their own performance. If you are ready to be promoted at that time you will be. I think it is a good system overall, but historically, scheduling has been an issue. When I used to train at this school "in the old days" (many, many years ago, children, let me tell you how it was) -- anyway, how we used to do it was to just have quarterly evaluations on Saturdays. Then when I came back, which was a bit over 4 years ago, they were doing it differently. I guess it's a sign of the pressured times we live in. Most of our adult students are juggling demanding professional careers, sometimes families, with high schoolers who have their own very demanding schedules. It was not working out for people to have to give up a whole Saturday every quarter. (I'm not sure why, I wasn't there. Most people train on Saturday mornings anyway, but maybe by noon the fam is making demands.) So then they started a system whereby Sensei would let you know individually when you were ready to be promoted. You would pre-test in one class, getting closer scrutiny, then a week later you went through a regular demanding class, performing some of your stuff individually. This system could work, I thought at first, but quickl realised the difficuly. She just didn't seem to think if it much, and if one of us screwed up our courage and asked, she would normally say 'You're almost ready", and be working with us on various details we needed to fix, then sometimes finding ones that hadn't been there before, so we had to keep work on them. I found this system to be overly frustrating, so made a proposal. My proposal was that we would test in class, quarterley, on 2 consecutive Tuesdays and Wednesdays, which is when sensei teaches anyway. This seems to work a lot better, and I was wondering how other teachers do it? Do you ever set up a time that is completely out of training time, or just run it in a regular class. Thanks for your help.

OK, you are named, Blade96 thought of the question first. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to post inappropriately or anything, I just wanted to open the question to traditional Japanese karate practitioners in general. I thought that maybe if people thought it was a question pertaining only to Shotokan practitioners, they might not read it if they practiced another style of TJK. Thanks for introducing the question, Blade96, I liked it.

My interpretation of what Lowry is saying, Toptomcat, is that yes, natural cotton was used because it was cheap and durable, and where the "simplicity and naturalness" applies is in just leaving it as is, and not trying to add something to it. Anyway... Lowry goes into a lot more detail, discussing clothing or the lack thereof in ancient Japan -- apparently before cotton was invented the clothes were made out of hemp, or for poorer people, a type of mulberry paper, while the rich wore silk, of course. Lowry does have a mind for great detail, sometimes more than I care to know, but usually fascinating, in my view.

This topic was originally posted as "A Question for Shotokan Folks", but I think the question would be of interest all traditional Japanese karate-ka. I had never really given it much thought as to why white gis are "traditional", I just thought it was "what it is". When someone asked the question, I got to wondering, and figured that if anyone had researched the answer it would be Dave Lowry. In his book "In the Dojo", (a great resource on etiquette and the various hows and whys of Japanese MA's), there is an entire chapter entitled "The Uniform". Lowry points out that actually, the early karate pioneers wore either regular street clothes, or more often, were practically naked and wore only loincloths. The karate gi was derived from the judo uniform developed by Kano, to make it more "marketable". (I guess college students didn't want to train naked). Anyway, on pages 42-43, Lowry says "Keikogi* are white because it is the natural color of the cotton of which they are made and so it is both cheap and reflective of a certain spirit of simplicity and naturalness that is consonant with the values of the budo. They are white because they have always been so, and tradition, while it is not sufficient a rationalization for all institutions, is nevertheless a powerful factor when it comes to the matter of arts like the budo. There is no coherent reason for the introduction of other colors to the keikogi other than to satisfy the dictates of changeable fashion or to address the wearer's need to express his whims; therefore, it is important not to introduce them." * Keiko = practice The conclusion is, apparently, that Japanese tradition says don't change anything unless there is a good reason! Who determines what constitutes a good reason is, I suppose, debatable.

I don't think it's just Shotokan, but pretty much all traditional Japanese karate, no?

1987witherspoon wrote: In my school we wear only white, always. If we were allowed to choose, I wouldn't mind black. Red and blue, maybe I could get used to it, but Bugs Bunny??! I don't think so!! On the other hand, it would be hilarious to have a dojo full of cartoon characters sparring each other. Would Bugs Bunny beat Porky Pig? How about Wile e Coyote against the Roadrunner. The possibilities are endless.

Kuma wrote: That's about it, I agree. But again, IT'S NOT MY FAULT, THEY MAKE ME DO IT! joesteph wrote: I remember you saying something about this in the past, joesteph, and I just wanted to say that I'm glad that you have found something that works for you. That is awesome! I think that people who have found a martial art that they love, for whatever reason, are really lucky. We might have to search around to find the right one to fit us for our goals and where we are in our lives, but it is the love of martial arts that unites us in these forums. I really appreciate everone's contributions.