still kicking

Oops sorry, "him", you said it was a him.

Blade96 wrote: What, another cat??? A cat toy? Some catnip? Every time I go into the pet store I end up spending way too much money on cat toys. I agree, something for the cat would be good for a cat lover, but choosing what is the hard part. Maybe you should get him/her some whiskey, and catnip for the cat.

Sibylla, I don't know where you are located, but I think in the U.S. it is illegal to ask about religion. Why would they possibly need to know that? Strange. Maybe it has to do with what days of the week you are available to train. At first glance I definitely like the solution proposed by mr_obvious -- "religion = violence" However... it is likely you would be pegged as being a smart alec with those kinds of answers, and that could be bad. I'd be really interested in what you find out, if you decide to ask, about why they want this kind of information!

The black belt is STILL learning just like the white belt... I figured that's what you meant, sensei8. I guess my eyes were reading faster than my brain, too!

sensei8 wrote: Wow, thank you for saying that, sensei8, that may well be the best post I've ever read. Once I won at pool when I had never played before, because I was too naive to be afraid, and everyone in the bar wanted to play me. (After that I got creamed.) But it was a good lesson in "beginner's mind". I so appreciate what you said, because too much of the time people are so busy trying to prove something, perhaps feeling that any defeat is a sign of their worthlessness, and really, if a white belt can show us the gaps in our defenses or whatever, we should be grateful. It takes a certain amount of confidence to be able to feel that way, though. That's the paradox, I think.

sensei8 wrote: This whole topic exasperates me, I will admit. Even though you are far above me, sensei8, since I am but a nikyu with 10 or 11 years total experience, (4 and a half currently) from what I have observed in our school/organization it is different from this. It always drives me nuts when I hear, "shodan is just the beginning", since I really don't think that's necessarily true. Where I train, I would say that Jukyu-Yonkyu would be beginner level, Sankyu-Shodan-ho would be intermediate level, and Shodan and up is advanced. The thing is, past shodan nobody cares that much about rank. Even though what you test on is rigidly codified for each rank at the organizational level, what you are allowed to learn and practice is much more flexible. Thus we have brown belts who are working on many of the black belt kata, and shodans who have been black belts for years and continue to learn new stuff when we go to the main branch, and refine and deepen their understanding of applications and of how to teach the curriculum. Then there are other schools that have nidans who are still sucking their thumbs, for cripes sakes. I think this speaks to what ps1 said, to the effect that advanced techniques are just basic techniques done better "with better timing and more strategically employed", I believe was the direct quite. Yes, there are more advanced kata and a few more sophisticated moves, but really, even the highest ranking people in our organization are doing the same stuff as the lower black and sometimes brown belt levels, just better. So as to the original topic, is 1st dan enough... my opinion is that, in some cases, yes it is enough, as long as you keep training and learning from very experienced people, and no, it is not nearly enough if you are learning in a sub-par school. We are comparing apples and buffalo here! Just my 2 cents worth.

sensei8 wrote: Yes, but it's a good thing, otherwise we would have no need for these forums to argue about (discuss) it all!

Sibylla wrote: Why is it that sometimes the most obvious things aren't obvious? I think I have been pushing too hard, and you're right, I do need a break. This morning I am skipping class, and doing web searches on fitness clubs in my area, with the idea of taking a month or two off from karate and just doing fitness stuff. I have been training pretty much without a break for more than 4 years, and it's just too intense sometimes. I probably won't even do this, but it gives me a bit of a mental break just to know that it's an option. As far as "testing" -- it is an all school "evaluation", but it's testing as well. In other words, if we are ready to promote at that time we will, but everyone is supposed to be in it regardless of whether you're ready for the next rank. I know I'm not ready because people normally stay at my level for 6 months to a year, and it's only been 4 months. Plus I think I just need improvement before moving on. I totally know what is expected of me, it's just that it's a rather gruelling process and I don't feel like doing it. This is not a good attitude, I have never felt this way before! But anyway, either I will do it or not, in the end it's not all that important. Thanks for the words of wisdom.

algernon wrote: Oh algernon, you are so wise. Martialart wrote: Kick them out, no. Fail them at their gradings? Not allow them to grade? Yes! Without integrity and high standards, in my opinion, a martial arts school is worthless.

Wow, that's beautiful, and I don't usually like bugs.

OK, I guess they would be called gloves. Sparring mitts? The puffy vinyl ones.

I couldn't figure out exactly which one to check for the poll. I wear a mouthguard, fist pads, and instep pads.

So, I am trying to figure out why I get so nervous in testing situations. Of course everyone does, to some extent, and some amount of nerves helps us do better. I remember reading interviews with some very famous actors or performers who said they still got stage fright and got sick to their stomach before a performance. I don't have it quite that bad, but I think the problem is that at some fundamental level, if I am feeling good about where I am at in my karate, and think I am ready for the next level, and my teacher doesn't promote me, I just feel worthless. I sometimes feel angry, humiliated, disgusted -- the feelings can be very intense. It has gotten better in some ways, but on the other hand, the expectations become much higher as the ranks get higher, so it's kind of a receding horizon in terms of being relaxed and comfortable. What seems to help me the most is to tell myself to take my time, be in my body, and breathe. (The taking my time thing refers to kata performance, because I tend to rush things when I am nervous. I do not try to take my time in sparring or most other things). I am trying to focus on these things in class this week, getting ready for next week. Wow, I wish I could be some kind of enlightened Buddha-like person, who was not concerned with how I looked to others, or "rank" or social status or wanting approval and respect from others. I am not there yet.

Relax, you say! Ha ha ha ha ha. Sorry, I got carried away!

Martialart wrote: It seems to me that the elephant in the room here is that whatever you think about rank per se, in my opinion it is essential to have highly skilled dojo mates to train with in order to improve. Whether I am called shodan or godan or whatever might not be important to me, but continuing to improve my skills is important. In my opinion it would be impossible to do that without being surrounded by people who are training at a high level.

DWx wrote: Good point, I think I have to revise what I said before about wanting to keep advancing through ranks to keep sharp. We have several 1st dans who have been training for 15 or 16 years, and aren't intersted in ranking higher. I think it's partly because it involves travel and costs money, but maybe mostly they don't think it's important. When we train at "headquarters", they don't segregate the bb's by rank, it's just a matter of what you know. I do think training for rank can make you train harder, but there are other ways of motivating yourself, too. It's just crazed how much of a big deal it all becomes sometimes. (rank, I mean)

Lupin1 wrote: And... a first degree with 10 or 15 years of experience probably knows a lot more than a nidan with 4 years of experience. Some schools see black belt as "just the beginning", for others it requires 10 or more years of rigorous training and a pretty extensive knowledge and ability to teach the curriculum. It seems to me the issue in the OP's case is lack of quality of other students to train with. I also agree with what someone else said about often the higher dan levels are more about years of experience and contribution to the art than pure physical skill. Even though, hopefully, the skill is there, but it would seem normal to me to have a 5th dan instructor who was very good but doing more teaching than training these days to be beaten by a younger shodan. That doesn't mean the 5th dan isn't warranted. All of this is to say... when you are training in a school where you question the abilities of your peers and maybe teachers, perhaps a certain level of defensiveness about rank is warranted? It reminds me of one of my cats. When I am playing with them and the other one catches the ribbon toy faster than him a couple of times, he will sit back and lick his paw, as if to say "I don't care, I'm not really trying to catch it anyway" (which I think is hilarious, by the way). For me I think it is important to keep progressing through ranks because it drives me to improve more than I would otherwise, I think. But of course it has to be a rank I respect and that means something to me.

So, next week (Tues and Wed evening) is testing and evaluation time again. We all get evaluated, which means... you participate whether or not you are ready to test. I just made 2nd kyu the last time (4 mos. ago), and am totally not expecting to get promoted to 1st kyu this time. I still have 4 more weapons kata to test on before I can test for shodan-ho, so there's no hurry to get to 1st kyu in open hand -- if there ever is... a philosophical question, I suppose. I usually love participating in evaluations when I am not expecting to get promoted. It's less pressure, and frees me up to just to my best. I realize that ideally it is always that way, but come on, when we have already gone through one or more tries at the same level, it's hard to not let the pressure build up. Anyway, this time, honestly, I just feel really tired. I was even tempted to just sit this one out -- make an excuse that I am sick or something -- though I have never missed one before. I think it's important for me to be there as one of the higher ranking colored belt students, but really, it sure is a strain to go through those. Oh well, it's all good practice for the shodan-ho and shodan, which take place in our organization headquarters as opposed to the home dojo. That's still a couple of years away, and at least I'm playing to a friendly crowd. Maybe I'm just sleep deprived right now.

I just passed my 3rd kyu kobudo test, on Tsukken Shita Haku no Sai. Up until now, I have only had to test on the bo and the sai, but now I am working on the kaibo (eku/oar). The first kaibo kata we learn is Kaibo Ten no Kata. I think I will like it, but I sure am getting bruises in some strange places. One thing I can see that will make it harder to master than the bo... you have to have the flat part facing the right (correct) way, whereas with the bo, obviously, all sides are the same. Does anybody have an opinion of the relative difficulty of learning the kaibo compared to the bo? In any case, I do love weapons, and am looking forward to learning a new one!

Toptomcat wrote: I don't know, it depends on what you mean by "public", and "serious" too, I guess. It seems to me that demo-ing what you do is a good way for any school to attract new students. I personally am not in favor of the flashy fake performances, but different strokes and all that. If what you mean by serious martial artists is people who want to spar hard, you could try universities or other situations where you might find such people, as opposed to in front of a toy store, for instance.

Toptomcat -- maybe it would entice the demographic you want to attract?

GeoGiant wrote: Oh, I get it, so it's not just another tournament. I think anyone would be upset and disappointed -- even if you can do all of your events, having to deal with it gets in the way. Even so, I'll bet you will get through it one way or another. Let us know how it goes!

Oh, man, that's really too bad, GeoGiant. I hope you are able to doctor it up enough tonight to be able to compete tomorrow. On the other hand, there will be other tournaments, and there's no sense causing yourself permanent damage. Good luck, whatever you do!

He he, hey Jake, does your father-in-law ever beat you? I hope so, becaue I'm always for the underdog.

Blade96, I'm sorry this is going on for you, but this is exactly the kind of thing I meant when I was responding to another post you made some time ago, i.e. you can't get bogged down with emotional issues and expect to survive long term in karate! Believe me, I know! It does not matter who likes who, who is a favorite, who snubs you, -- sometimes beyond that, who is dating who, and on and on. In my opinion, it has to be -- just train! From my observations, not counting people who drop out due to apathy, more people drop out of training due to various emotional and relational disturbances than due to learning frustrations. That is part of the training. Just show up and don't worry about who likes you or doesn't like you, you are there for yourself and your training, nothing more and nothing less! (Not trying to sound like a wise old sensei, I'm not, just an experienced student who has seen it all.)