IcemanSK

I would say it's like earning a college degree, or (forgive me the comparison) being a Marine. "Once a Marine, always a Marine." Being a BB is a benchmark accomplishment, of which you can always be proud, and is something you've earned. Say I get a degree as an English major at 22 year's old, and then go on to sell insurance & forget what I learned in school. The degree doesn't get taken away from me, despite my rust on the subjects I studied. It doesn't take long for our couch-sitting, Cheeto-eating selves to lose our abilities, flexibility, power, speed, etc. But we have still earned the belt. No one would suggest it's a good idea to compete (or pick a fight in a biker bar) in the Cheeto-eating state. Yet, the rank remains because it was earned. My first master no longer teaches MA, but he does teach golf. This change in his vocation doesn't change a thing in how I treat him. He has earned his rightful place as my senior & will always be.

A few years ago, I when to judge a BB test at a friend's school. As Kukkiwon-style TKD goes, it was pretty standard. But when he gave the belts to the students, he said something different. He told each of them, as he tied their belt on, "this belt ties me to you." He did not say, nor did he mean, that the belt ties the student to the master. But rather, the belt tied the master to the student, forever. This was nothing I'd heard any master say before; although I've heard it said in a different school since. Later, I asked him about it. While he didn't tell me exactly why he says, he seemed to be a bit of a melancholy way of acknowledging that they may not train with him forever, but that he will never forget THEM. As an instructor, I can certainly appreciate the thought that I will always carry a student who reaches BB in my heart. Instructors/masters, what do you think of this phrase (or expressing it somehow to new BB student)? What do you think of the phrase in general? Does giving someone a BB tie you to them? Have you ever heard of this in your own (or another) MA tradition?

As frustrating as things like this are, there really isn't anything to do about it. But the real issue is to not let it get to you or allow it to get you down. Like life outside the training hall, some people think they should "get ahead" by cutting corners. It's easy to get down when you are doing it right the hard way, & other's don't. In reality, what other's do with their MA journey is on them. Koreans don't ask what rank someone is. They ask, "how long have you trained?" When I keep that in mind, my perspective came into better focus. Keep training & working through your own MA journey. You future is very bright.

I'm sorry for your loss.

I absolutely see your point. I see your point as an extension of mine, however. "Brown belt is close enough (I don't need to, don't want to....go farther)." Thanks for that insight!

I hate to be a downer (and I don't want to be) but I was thinking about students that leave & stop training. I've talked with many people over the years who've told me they "used to train." When I ask them at what rank they stopped, more than any other rank, "brown belt" seems to be the answer. I spoke with a friend, who has been teaching since the 70's, who told me his theory. He said, "there seem to be a barrier at brown belt that some folks can't imagine themselves crossing over into BB. They want to forever say, 'I was almost a BB," but not reach that step." Do you find this to be true? Is reaching BB a mental/emotional/physical hurdle that many can not cross? What can be done to combat this for our students?

June 2006, when I tied a new yellow belt onto the waist of a student in my own school. It still never gets old!

I'd recommend EosinPanther.com They have great belt made in the U.S.A., if that matters to you. I've used them for years & love them.

I was 14 & fascinated with MA. I bought MA magazines & inhaled every page. My folks went to an auction & a free week at a TKD school was part of a package they were high bidders on. My dad being quite an ingenious guy, asked the other folks who had also had a week of TKD as part of their packages if they wanted them. None did. So my buddy & I each had 3 weeks of TKD. 32 years later, I'm still training.

That's not always the case, imho!! Physical reason(s) might force one off the floor. Emotional reason(s) might force one off the floor. And these two considerations might not allow one to train ever again. Yes, sadly that does happen to many people. Dealing with loss, especially of our own abilities as we age, can be devastating for some folks. For some, that can be an impassible barrier that they never conquer. I was born with Cerebral Palsy that affects the use of my right hand & leg. When I started training at 14 in 1982, my physical learning curve was huge. 32 years later, I'm still training & teaching. Like most of us, I've had MA heroes that I've looked to for inspiration. They've fueled my workouts during the hardest times in my training. A few years ago, I learned a lesson that I never expected. For a few years, I trained at a boxing gym where a friend also ran a TKD program. Every day, he'd show up with his then 8 & 10 year old sons in tow. They came straight from school, a quick bit to eat & then to train 5 nights a week. Four years ago, I got an email from their dad saying the oldest was going to be a student at West Point, & I had a part in that. He said that his boys often hated training back then. But he pointing me out to them & told them, "see, that's what dedication is. You show up, and you work hard every day." The oldest graduates from West Point later this month & the youngest in a Sophomore there as well. I was one that they looked up to, and I didn't even know it. I think if we can shift our focus from "what motivates me" to "who can I motivate?" it can breathe new life into our experience.

I figure if the best gymnastic coaches in the world is Bella Karolly, a guy who has never done most of the things he teaches these kids to do, I plan to teach until I can no longer walk on the floor. I will be able to contribute to the teaching of my tradition to future generations.

I've seen said video; solid!! I smiled watching it because I felt for them; I've been there, many, many times myself. And yes, that's what I'm/Hombu is expecting from all ranks, and even more so in the upper Dan ranks. I've failed my share over the years; Dai-Soke was a taskmaster with no ambiguity whatsoever!! Some of my fails happened to me before the exam wasn't even close to being half way completed!! "YAME...SIT DOWN!!" Not a good feeling. My thought is as long as expectations of what "it" is, then the goal can be achieved. If it's left as a nebulous thing than no one can. While it wasn't defined in the film, the hachidan candidates seemed to know what it was they were trying to accomplish. I was under a master once who was always vague as a way of showing his dominance & control over students. I don't mind the bar being set high. In fact, I welcome it. But unless one can see the bar, it's a sad game & a power trip. I applaud & encourage your continued striving toward the mark, sir.

There is a documentary film, I believe called "Haichidan" about several men testing for 8th Dan in Kendo in Japan. Its fascinating to watch. Many of those testing had failed this test repeatedly. It seems the testing judges were looking for a certain "something" from those testing. A very few had "it," while most don't. They will try again at the next exam. Sensei8, I don't know if this is the kind of thing you're expecting or wondering about in an upper Dan exam. But it's what I thought about when I read your OP.

The issue I see with someone who teaches but doesn't train is there enough money involved to keep that up for very long. If someone doesn't love MA enough to actively train while they teach, there's nothing else to motivate them to keep a school open. Far too many keep teaching until they're near financial ruin (out of love for their Art) than continue to teach because the money is too good to give up. Are there out of shape folks who teach MA? Of course there are. Way too many. But that, too often is an issue of diet & other exercise apart from the Art in which one trains. Too many folks (whether instructor or not) eat as if they're in their teens with great metabolisms & don't get enough exercise outside of training. The older one gets the more one has to get the heart rate up in a way that MA training doesn't usually do. The fittest instructors I know are foks who run, bike or swim regularly, too.

I'm not sure what I have to add is helpful or not. But here goes. I've heard the phrase, "Your first 5 Dan ranks are for for you, but the next 5 are for others." I take that mean, the last 5 are for what you give back to the Art & your students. While being able to perform one's Art is large part of rank advancement (even at the higher ranks), I'm not sure what one does for the greater advancement of the Art can be completely divorced from rank advancement. Some Americans might look at it as "sucking up" to one's instructor, but I cannot see how having a strong connection to one's instructor is anything but vital to one's advancement in rank. To put it another way, why would an instructor promote someone to 6th-9th Dans if that student wasn't an important part of the organization? I'm a Kukki-Taekwondo guy. People can go to the Kukkiwon and test for BB rank. In fact, 8th-9th Dans are required to go test at Kukkiwon. Yet, even testing there, one has to have the recommendation of a higher ranked person in order to test. No one tests alone or on their own merit, but in connection with others. Rank is always tested & not just given at Kukkiwon. I guess I don't see it as an "either rank is on your physical abilities or its political," but rather an both/and type of thing where both physical ability & what the tester has done for their instructor/organization.

Personally I think someone filmed them at a demonstration and jumped to conclusions. The WTF has a creative forms division for competition therefore there is no need to add these to the traditional divisions. I think they were in the planning stages because there was discussion about it at the 2009 Kukkiwon Foreign Instructor's Course that I attended. Somewhere on Youtube there is video of someone else doing one of them as well. The Kukkiwon has had a lot of turmoil in the past 5+ years. (Several presidents have come and gone. Including one that resigned after 2 months stating that he couldn't make any headway with the Board of Directors). That alone could be a possible explanation as to why they never rolled them out.

My lineage in Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan is: GGM LEE, Won Kuk Founder GGM UHM, Woon Kyu GM PARK, Hae Man GM Edward B. Sell me

When I was in my early 20's & an assistant at a school, I would have said, "a 16 year old brown belt with limitless energy and curiosity." Now, as 40-something school owner, I'd say a student of any age willing to step out of his/her comfort zone and trust the process of training. These students, rather than the former, come around a lot more often & they're much more fun to teach.

Because you're a Taekwondo student, the word sensei is not usually appropriate, since it is a Japanese term & Taekwondo is a Korean Art. The Korean term is Sa Bom. To address a specific teacher, we'd use the honorific "Nim." I would describe myself as a TKD Sa Bom, but if I were referring to another person I'd refer to them as Sa Bom Nim. Like in Japanese use of sensei, the person's name would be said before the title. "That is Jones Sa Bom Nim." But Mr. Jones would refer to himself as Jones Sa Bom. Does that make sense?

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, these poomsae never made it past the experimental stages. They were never rolled out to the general public. They are DOA as far as I can tell.

Well said!

I train in my backyard on a heavy bag & do poomsae work. Only my one neighbor can see me. He has trained in the past as well. He doesn't seem to care. I occasionally train during down times (when no one else is there) in the YMCA's aerobics room. It has mirrors that help me evaluate poomsae. I wear t shirts with my school logo on it also, as a way to advertise my school. Having said that, I keep a relatively low profile about my training. It's not much of a topic of conversation outside of training. I don't discuss it with those who don't train.

Mat time is a HUGE part of these programs, as I understand them. Usually training several hours a day in more than one Art. As far as folks adding this to their list of accomplishments....C'mon, martial artists NEVER pad their own stats to make themselves better than they are. Well according to an 11th Dan black belt I know, anyway.

I also agree that it seems to pigeonhole the recipient of the degree quite a lot. I've met a few folks with such degrees from Korean schools. They are certainly excellent MAists, and their schools are doing well. As much as the intensive study of MA would be in a university would be exciting, I'm not it would be what I'd want to bank my future on. I would think a masters of business administration would be a better idea in order to help with the business aspects of running a school.

Here's another program at a school in Wisconsin USA. http://www.auusa.org/ I had a friend who worked on a master's degree there, but didn't complete it due to family obligations. He liked the program while he was in it. As far as rank related to the degrees offered, they were separate in his case. He was already 7th Dan Kukkiwon (Taekwondo) when he started the program. His rank would not have been affected as a direct result of him finishing. He told me he was doing the program to become a better instructor. Kukkiwon does make unique exception for graduates of Taekwondo B.A. programs in Korea. If one begins a TKD degree program as a 3rd Dan, they are eligible to test for 4th Dan upon graduation.