IcemanSK

During my time in an ITF school, I found tul to be very important, as you point out. While the instructor I had was not a reputable guy (as I found out some years later) he brought in a high level ITF instructor (now master) for seminars. My instructor couldn't care less about tul, so he brought in this other man. This other man would go over each tul in great detail with us. I always got the sense that ITF folks took patterns very seriously.

The goalpost gets moved. Sometimes I move it, and sometimes others move it. Students, instructors, Seniors, juniors, jobs, spouses, people we feel we're in competition with (whether they know it or not), etc. Like outside the training hall, the world changes around us. And if we ourselves don't change as others have different expectations for us, we'll constantly be at odds with those around us. Like an adult student who refuses to test for BB because they don't want to have greater responsibilty, but who rather "just train." There's always a learning curve and/or growing pains with goalpost movement. The hard to remember is that there is always something positive we can learn or we can contribute to in the new place.

There are a few young Korean masters doing breakdowns of Kukki-TKD Poomsae techniques on video lately. For those who are not Kukki-TKD folks, this is a bit of a novel thing for us. For a long time, Poomsae weren't really considered as important as sparring. And in the past 15 years or so, precision of technique has been the focus of study. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q2HGPNd80o

Here's another applications video based on KKW Poomsae. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152700013047253&set=vb.207615097252&type=2&theater

FWIW, I'd thought I'd share my observations of the role Poomsae has played in Kukk-TKD in the last 30 years. Or at least my experience of it. My first instructor had no direct connection to GM PARK Hae Man (as my current one does) so that, I'm sure colors my experience a lot. Had I been connected to GM PARK then, I'm sure Poomsae would have been taken more seriously. For us, and many other schools in the early-mid 80's, sparring was everything! Poomsae was less important to say the least. There were no seminars on Poomsae...no standardized way of doing them. The one thing everyone seemed to agree on was Koryo. It was the one Poomsae that students concentrated on more than others. It fact, in my experience, no matter what BB rank one was, it was the Poomsae one performed (or was asked to perform). I remember buying a Poomsae book by GM Pugil Kwon in around 1986 (it was written in 1984) and it was the first time I'd even heard of Keumgang and Tae Bek..let alone seen them performed. I did know anything about higher rank Poomsae (Pyongwon etc.) until much later. My understanding (I was in an ITF-style school at that time, so I'm not sure), is that Poomsae began to be standardized in the late 90's when Kukkiwon added their "Instructors Course" for foreign (non-Korean) instructors and pushing the importance of the Instructors Course for Korean masters abroad. As a result, the value of Poomsae increased in the eyes of Kukki-TKDoan around the world. There has been quite an evolution of the importance placed on Kukki-TKD Poomsae in my experience in the last 30 years.

Walking stance is a hard stance to gauge properly. This description is from the Kukkiwon website. Hopefully it helps. Ap Seogi-Walking Stance Stance of taking one walking step forward The width between the two feet is about the length of one walking step and the center of gravity remains in the middle with the trunk in an upright position.

I enjoy the endurance aspect of MA. I was told that folks figured I'd give up after 6 months. 30+ years later, I'm still around. But teaching (or developing) endurance is a gradual thing and we must build in additional motivations along side "I got through another tough class!" otherwise our schools will be more like "The Lord of the Flies" than a place where learning and growth occurs. Most folks who train do not wish to only focus on their training. Training helps us with the rest of our lives, it isn't the central focus for most students. We need to balance both the ideas of train hard to endure and train because we enjoy it and it helps us on our journey outside the training hall.

Here are some applications of techniques found in Kukki-TKD poomsae (both Tae Geuk & Yudanja).

Keumgang is a deceptively difficult poomsae. BALANCE is challenge of this poomsae. In competition, the one-legged Hakdari seogi (Crane Stance) are held on one leg for 5-6 seconds. When GM PARK Hae Man (one of the designers of the Tae Guek, Pal Gwe & Yudanja poomsae) teaches it, he says, "from the beginning to the end of the technique, you should balance for 10 seconds. Twelve is better!" So, from the point one begins to raise their foot off the ground, until the block is finished should be 12 seconds! A real challenge. When I took the Kukkiwon Foreign Instructors Course, the instructors of the Course emphasized the importance of the BB student with this form by saying, "One can tell a BB students entire TKD ability by seeing the way they perform Keumgang & Tae Guek Yuk Jang (6)." In the six years since I took the Course, I've found this to be more true every day. I work on both especially hard.

Exactly. Teaching is a hard business. Not everyone can or should do it forever.

What a great question to consider. Thanks for asking it. The way I would have answered this 30 years ago, is quite different than I'd answer it today. If my first master told me that I could fly if I jumped off a roof, I would have tried it. When he sold the school and moved out of state, I was crushed. The second school where I trained was run by a guy who had a great deal of trouble telling the truth. My next trainer became a good friend. I was at his bedside when he died of cancer at 42. I named my dojang after his school in his memory. A few years later, I sought out a new master to run my school under. I found one of the most genuine and kind grandmasters I've ever met. He died last year of cancer, and now his wife (equally as wonderful), now runs the organization. The one thing I've learned is that my training, is bigger than all of these people in my life (both great and less so). I love my Art, and training. I still have goals that have surpassed many of those who trained me. My first master now teaches golf in Hawaii (not TKD). He's so pleased that I still train. I have no regrets training with anyone I have. I've made life-long friendships in even bad training situations. Honestly, I hope that someone has/will look at me and say, "he pushed me to continue in my journey." I think that is the point of this whole thing.

That's a great version of "Old Koryo" done by the daughter of GM Shin Chul KANG (the man who introduced TKD to Iran). She is very talented. Old Koryo was rarely done for a very long time, but has made a comeback in the last 5-8 years. GM CHUN & Master Cook's book can take more than a little credit for that. The version of "new" Koryo shown is wonderfully done. The tiger claw is referred to as a "knee break." The target of the technique is above the knee cap. In my 30 years doing Koryo (the "new" one), there have been many changes (eg. I learned a "dynamic tension" ready stance, to the "breathe in, breathe out" way it's done today), it's still my favorite poomsae.

I can't wait for the black belt forms discussion. *grabs popcorn*

I see the position you're in as quite exciting. You have an opportunity to spread your wings and learn something new. And how new is totally up to you. You can stay in very familiar territory (a stand-up striking Art in Shotokan) or very different in Aikido &/or Kendo. There is no bad choice. Just asking yourself how much you want to change from your comfort zone. All my best to you.

I do like Hwa Rang. It's a fun form. It's a difficult form to perform well.

Well said. Among Koreans, the question asked is never, "what rank are you?". But rather, how long have you trained. Assuming one may be less than honest about rank they don't talk about is odd to me. It's more often the case that someone may not have the rank they talk about often.

USCDKA.com

I like the ATA's idea with jumping and flexibility-necessary kicks at Brown belt level. It makes sense to require those at high gup-level rank. In Kukki-TKD poomsae, there's a spinning crescent kick to a target in Cheonkwon (7th Dan poomsae), and two jump side kicks in IL Yeo (9th Dan poomsae). It seems to me, that one should need to do those kicks at lower, (younger) more flexible ranks, shall we say. In Tae guek Pal Jang, the jump front kick in technique #3 is actually two different kicks. It's very subtle, and most Kukki-TKD folks miss it, but the right foot movement is also a kick as well at the more obvious left foot kick. When done as shown here, it's not an easy thing to accomplish. It's much easier to see it only as a left foot jump front kick.

They update the numbers often (I'm guessing quarterly) & I think it's neat to see how they change. One thing that's not well known in Kukki-TKD is that one must travel to Korea to test for both 8th & 9th Dans. One cannot test for those Kukkiwon rank in the States (or anywhere outside of Korea). *A side note* The lone 10th Dan listed is the late Grandmaster Edward B. Sell (my late instructor) who died last year. 10th Dan Kukkiwon is an honorary degree, usually given posthumously, to 9th Dan holders who have done exemplary things in the advancement of Taekwondo. There are less than 20 people given this honor. Two men who have received this are still living. 1) International Olympic Committee Chair Juan Antonio Sammarach (sp?) 2) Dr. Un Yong KIM, first president of both Kukkiwon & WTF.

I'm not sure where my head was at. I meant to reference TG Chil Jang in my comments, not Pal Jang, as I did. In my mind I was talking about TG 7 (Chil Jang). Forgive me. Too many kicks to the head. I might need to pick up a copy of GMs LEE & Kims book.

In both Pal Gwe & Tae Guek Pal Jang there are several combinations of techniques. That's why there more techniques than the book counts. Several combinations are counted as one. One's balance is tested quite a bit in Tae Guek Pal Jang from the opening bar. Cat/Tiger stance with a rear leg front, slide back into the same stance with an inside block. This is a good poomsae of both grace and power. "The Complete TKD Poomsae" book by LEE & KIM I'm sure is good. GM LEE is an amazing man, and the former head of Kukkiwon. He LOVES poomsae. GM Sang H. KIM also put out a DVD of Pal GWE poomsae that is an excellent learning/teaching tool under his Turtle Press publishing company. Look for it on Amazon, if interested.

http://kms.kukkiwon.or.kr/usr/club/club.do?level=2&contCd=005&nationCd=101&divisionCd=&engNm=UNITED+STATE+OF+AMERICA&subCnt=52&lat=37.09024&lng=-95.71289100000001&zoom=4&page=1&orderBy=&rowsPerPage=10&pagesPerIndex=10&continentList=005&nationList=&method=pageList Sorry folks.

Sadly, there was also the "magic plane" in the 60s-80's where folks would get on the plane in Korea as 2nd Dan and land in the West (usually the US) as 4th-5th Dan. Rank would magically be added enroute. That happens a lot less no-a-days, however. Another issue is that many older Koreans have Kwan rank, but not Kukkiwon rank (or not sufficient to test their students. ie. 4th Dan or above KKW to test students to 1st-3rd Dan). There are more than a few fake Kukkiwon certificates out there given by Korean as well as other nationalities. Here's a breakdown of Americans who actually have Kukkiwon certificates. Unfortunately, the number who have been told and who believe they have them is much greater.

I was a 16 year old brown belt when that came out. It motivated me to train then....and it still does today. You're in really good company

I was a huge Chuck Norris fan. We went to see "Forced Vengeance" in a theater, then went across the street and I signed up for Taekwondo classes. More than 32 years later, I'm still a Norris fan. I got a chance to meet him once. He is a nice guy.