Drunken Monkey

and what's that supposed to mean? that we're talking about the same thing? you say that punching air reduces power. i say it doesn't. can't be any more different, can it?

but you are talking about burgularies. i was talking about the minority out there who are psychologically compelled to commit murder, rape and abduction. in my opinion, it is these people that are the more dangerous because you are not aware of their presense. they could be your next door neighbour. anyway... i'm way off the topic... sorry guys. simple answer to the original post. no. in my opinion, arming oneself with a gun is a logical step in self defence. we already have knife/blade techniques and learning how to use a gun is simply the next step.

no. i never said that punching air helps power. you said that punching air actually reduces your power. that is what i disagree with. you say that when punching air, you slow down your punch. i argued that you don't because your target is way before your full extension i.e your arm is still accelerating whilst hitting past your target. i said a long time ago that you need to do both because neither one in isolation works your punch fully.

as us chinese say: 'boil water'

i'm gonna have to be honest here and admit that i have no idea how karate or tkd is taught or how they train.

it's a family thing.

and then there's the fact that most people put there see blocks as being used in isolation. it's like the guys out there who ask you to try and block all of their attempts to hit you, not realising that the simplest way to stop the hits is to hit him...

i mean, the fact that he MIGHT get shot wouldn't prevent him from doing the things s/he is compelled to do. admittedly, shotting the guy would probably prevent him from repeating the act.... and if the first shot doesn't do it, try again i guess.

that's called taking it out of context. read that first line of my post again. you asked how to be a better fighter. i gave an example of something not regularly mentioned in a martial art class. if you actually read the post you would've spotted that. ozaru used the term secrets so i used his term to cover these things not often talked about. like i say. what do you think is going to make a better fighter; the guy in your class that runs 20 miles a week, does a two hour ciruit training session every other day, as well as practising forms and techniques every afternoon? or the guy who turns up to one class a week, no outside training, no regular exercise?

i got that bit but then that also depends on the driver. like i said, i take treebranch's post to refer to hitting a bag. i can see us going in circles for a long time... to keep it brief. the end point of a punch is not the contact point of a punch. therefore, your arm is not slowing down as you hit your contact point.

ok, new reply from a totally different perspective... martial arts are supposed to offer/provide you with an advantage against an opponent, right? if both parties are equally trained then it is even. if one party is untrained then he is at a disadvantage, in which case, whether or not he is a threat, he shouldn't be dealt with so severly, right? if the untrained guy is armed then the situation has changed. like it or not, the trained guy is now at a disadvantage if only because he now has to be more aware of the weapon (as opposed to a previously controllable opponant). if you look at things this way, even if you have trained in martial arts, it doesn't mean that weapons are not needed in order to protect. in fact, if you took martial arts to protect (i.e to gain an advantage) then to retain your advantage in an armed society, it makes sense to arm yourself. after all, even in the magical, mystical times of ancient china, no trained unarmed man chose to take on an armed attacker, even an untrained one. (old chinese saying: swords and knives have no eyes) which is exactly why they had weapons training; in order to gain an advantage against other users or that same weapon.

i think you'll find that in his example, the pad equates to the bag... it sounds like you have taken the end point of a punch done in the air to be the 'hit' point. the target is set before your arm is at full stretch. it follows that your would not be slowing down before you have made your hit. just to offer a counterpoint, i'm going to say that punching a bag is the one that is more likely to limit your power because you get used to not having to work once you have hit the bag. i.e you actually stop the punch once you have made contact hence no follow through. also, hitting a bag doesn't work your rechamber which is just as important as your outward punch. when you are hitting a bag, you let the impact/recoil do half of the work of rechambering your punch. punching in the air forces you to do all of the work, all of the time, which in the long term, is better for your punch/technique. and please explain again how punching in the air slows your punch down? using words like 'internalise', 'force' and 'power' in the same sentence might sound good but it does not make an explaination.

or you could persuade them to install windows xp, that should slow them down for a while, then cause them to waste time looking for new drivers for all of their old hardware...

sorry about this but... yes he might get shot but it wouldn't prevent him/her from doing the act. the problem is, this issue is way too complex. if guns are banned, there will be problems. if guns are mandatory, there will be problems. problems all round which is probably why it might be better letting the people choose whether or not they want a gun.

buy why on god's earth would they want to do that? kinda destroys the anime spirit. y'know, a lot of people hated the fact that it turned into a dragonball fight scene.

cars bad example. makes no difference in a straight line sprint. both cars will be going flat out and slowing down will only occur after they have crossed the line. anyway, you don't mentally stop your punch. your punch happens to get stopped by the thing you are hitting. whether you are punching air or punching air, you have a focus point. with a bag it is 'easier' to focus a punch because you know where it is going to get stopped. when punching air you pick an imaginary point and aim for it. in both cases, you are accelerating (or at least try to accelerate) your punch until you are past that point.

well airbags kill people usually because they are not sitting 'properly' in the car... anyway. i do understand the paranoia relationship. just a little uneasy on the examples used for the comparison. another thing is well, the kinda of people who commit the serious crimes repeatedly are often not of straight mind. you could say that some are compelled to commit the crime (because of psychological reasons). everyone owning a gun isn't going to stop the serial rapist/murderer/child molester from doing the things that he feels like he needs to do...

well, it might be worth mentioning that sitting on your * all day eating junk,watching tv before going to your ONE 2 hour martial arts class every week will not a good fighter make... secrets are things not told to people. think about what you don't talk about when you talk about training. a lot of the kids i speak with tend to only talk about moves/forms/techniques and seem to have little regard to the other aspects of training. sometimes i think the true secret to being good is in the NON martial art training. how often do you hear people talk about their latest running session where they managed to shave off another few seconds on their best times? how often do you hear people talk about jogging for an extra half hour? how often do you hear people talk about the many sit-ups, push-ups, pull-ups, crunches, thrusts, skipping etc etc...?

grab is usually over commited and leaves to vulnerable to wrist locks (if the opponent is good) as it's the thumb wrapped around the wrist that gives them the leverage. we train with a 'half grab' without commiting the thumb (but we do have a grab and drag type move later...) it also allows our covering hand to 'fly' up when it is needed without worrying about a/our grip. we only need to control when we are finding a way to hit. once we hit, we continue hitting and the 'grab' is no longer needed. from here we use our elbow/forearm position to cover their arms. in short, we don't think it is neccessary to grab completely as our aim isn't to hold down their arms; our aim is to hit them in the head.

i get your point but you seem to have missed mine. i was saying that you can't compare seatbelts as a device to protect and guns/knives as a device to protect because they are fundamentally different. a seltbelt, even when used to protect does not aim to hurt, injure or kill. a gun or knife when used to protect can and probably will hurt, injure or kill. i'm not saying that guns/knives and their owners are out to hurt people.

nah, he changed his name... um, in case you guys missed it i was 'from the ground up' before. anyways. not really pushing it away. and we don't really grab (well, the thumb isn't involved in this bit so not a grab). we try to use their body position or arm position to cover themselves. kinda like tie them up with their own arms. the most basic example i guess, is when they've crossed their arms, we would (aim to) pin downwards so that both of their hands/arms are controlled by our one hand/arm. make sense?

breakdancer. from grasshopper to praying mantis... anyway. trapping is just the 'pinning/covering' action when you block/parry an attack then use other arm to control/press it into a useless position. really bad explanation. it's what wing chun guys do a lot of drills in. y'know, intercept - control/trap/cover/push/pull - hit.

i thought seatbelts were there in case or a crash and there to limit the injuries in the event of a crash. it is totally passive and does not cause injury to people (at least not on purpose). a gun or knife however, by the nature of it's creation, is designed to hurt. i don't think you can compare the two. the fact that their applications in situations are thematically similar does not mean that the two ARE similar.

so what good is hard punches if you have no combo or rhythm? like i say, you need ALL aspects of training. martial arts training isn't just about the moves. if all you do the moves and neglect basic health and fitness routines like running, jogging, swimming you are only doing half the work.

well going back to the statistics thing (and my towards them). you gave three examples where you have seen the video. using your three sources, that's a 100% 'lose' argument for wing chun. but then that's only three videos. the first one is suspect (that's the one with the little clip of two guys slapping arms together, right?) as for the other two, i'll have a look... as for verbal accounts, there are many stories of wing chun guys taking on the world in hk back in the day but i don't take these to have much credit because i wasn't there and nor have i spoken to people who were there that is not connected with the wing chun schools.