Drunken Monkey

well, maybe not phone booth. sometimes you wanna take a little step backwards to pull them into you....

i don't buy into the 'wing chun not good in the ring' argument. if you take out the core principles and apply them correctly, there is no reason you can't make it work. wing chun is about intercepting things that enter our gates then hitting over/under when we have control or when we see/have an opening. it doesn't matter if the thing is an arm or leg we will deal with it. i don't see how being in a ring changes that. unless of course by 'in the ring', you mean having rules imposed on us.

well, that's kinda the point about the term 'kung fu'. it is all encompassing. it is the name for the art/skill/time devoted. when we say you have good kung fu, we are not saying you have good moves. rather we are acknowledging the many hours you have spent practising the little details of your art.

oooh, which part of essex?

yep. just two halves. and well strickly speaking, it's one movie just split into two easily digestable parts so kill bill vol2 is NOT a sequel...

whoa... like i said, he just recounted his experience. would you rather he make statements without even trying? * * * i've sparred against a couple of tkd guys, both from different schools. one guy i can pound into the ground because he can't keep me outside of my comfort range. i can see lots of things that he is 'doing wrong' according to how i see things. but then any tkd guy can use YOUR points and turn it into an argument when it wasn't meant to be. i mean, it's obvious that if the tkd guy was better then he would've been able to keep my out of my range. the point is, it doesn't matter whether the other guy is good or not because this wasn't about whether the guy was good or not, it was about what he saw when he sparred against a wing chun guy.

or how about the more obscure ones like the god of fermentation (can't remember the name...)

we have a triangle step in wing chun. imagine you feet being the two points on the base of an equilateral triangle. to triangle step, you only move your feet along the sides of the triangle. you would move one foot to meet the other, then move the same foot forward to the third point of the triangle. the point of this is taht it allows you to 'step around' to the other side of their centre as well as advancing into them (using an arrow walk to finish)

i should add that there is also the view that by 'external', they mean pure form without regard to breathing and application of strength/energy/position etc etc... what i mean is, the 'internal' aspects is sometimes seen as the things (and the hard work) you cannot see when you watch a form. * * * there's a little story about two wudang brothers. one would spend long hours everyday doing the stance training, breathing excecises (or if you like, aerobics), footwork etc etc. the other would only learn and practice the forms.

i know... must be a friend of sano's.

like i said. the words shaolin and do (or more precisely tao as in taoist) would not be used together.

but you haven't explained anything yet. you made a statement that if you don't know what 'jeng' is then even if you have spent i don't know, 9 odd years doing kung fu, you aren't actually doing kung fu. and you can describe it. if the things in the article is what you call 'jeng' then 'jeng' is simply body mechanics. in other words, you use more than just the muscles in your arm behind your strikes. you used the distinction that 'jeng' is what makes kung fu different from kickboxing. but refering to the article, it seems like kickboxers (as well as almost every other martial art) uses similar principles. in that case all martial arts is kung fu (which strictly speaking, is true). still waiting to see the word.... anyway, who's your teacher? the one from taiwan that is.

sano. all he talks about is wrestling, tekken, dragonball and how he's going to beat everyone in some kinda tournament.... but never anything about his karate.

y'know what, maybe i should just ignore all of the crap opps i mean, all of the posts that kid puts up.

i'm going to be honese here and say that i just don't like how breakdancer (formerly know as whitemanwithchineseaccent) posts. go read the first post of this thread again and tell me how it sounds to you. * * * anyway. y'know, i never thought of using the word 'radiate' before. good one. anyway, like i keep saying, it is always hard to translate from chinese to english as a lot of the 'words' are actually descriptive as opposed to being pure noun. take the the two characters for banana for instance. the first simply means fragrant. the second is a descriptive word for a type of fruit/vegetable. only by having the two together does it mean banana. * * * back to this. 'fa' ('faat') means radiate/expend/release 'jing' means subdued/given/presented i'm not too keen on 'explosive power'. it (and breakdancer) kinda suggests that it is a move or something that defines what kung fu is. i'll say again. it isn't the move itself, rather the result of moving in a certain way. if you look at the second part of that quote, what he describes is basically using your turned stance to add more torque to a strike. nothing mysterious about it. it is pure body mechanics (like the guy whose article he pointed to describes). you can't call the move itself the 'fa jing', rather it is the outcome that has added 'fa jing lik'. make sense? tell me if i'm getting confusing... back to how we treat 'fa jing'. when we move (especially when training) we aim to use as little strength/energy/force as possible, apart from whatever is required to hold and maintain structure/position. when we reach out or retract, we still try to use as little as possible until the very last moment; the last 6 inches we like to say. it is the 'stillness' before the 'rush' that defines our 'fa jing'. 'fa jing lik' is supposed to come from nothing. (hmmm, beginning to see where 'explosive' fits) like i say, maybe he and i are talking about two different things. i'll ask again, show me the character and i'll tell you what it is.

c'mon, be fair. all he did was recount an experience he had. i have to say my first time with a boxer was probably worse than that... even now, i have a severe range problem but i guess that's cos i'm only little.

yes but he's talking about guys knocking each other out. kinda hard when you don't hit to the head... i know there are good things about full contact. just as i understrand there are good things about semi contact and light contact sparring/drills. got to be honest here, just wanted to see if that kid could actually form a half decent argument about anything.... but then my point still stands. even if you get to hit full strength without gloves and whatever, isn't still a bit misleading because there are still so many limits imposed on the fight? especially not being able to hit the most useful target. i say, wear some protection and let the guys hit where-ever, however. might not have the same effect but then at least they will be using the moves that might save them if they need to.

so what are you talking about? jing, ging, or jeng? in any case, the word 'jeng' (assuming we are talking about the same thing) doesn't really mean anything without a prefix or suffix. by itself it is simply 'subdued' (closest thing in english). 'fa jing' which stold gave away to you means fully 'subdued energy'. tell me, which one sounds like what you hear? just to confuse you some more, there is actually two possible things you are trying to talk/boast about. one means 'release energy' the other means 'calm energy' anyway, tai chi does not use jing, is it kung fu? lee gar kuen does not use jing, is it kung fu? pheonix eye does not use jing, is it kung fu? the article was written by a guy who know mantis but it he didn't mention anything about 'jeng'. like i said, he was describing body mechanics. as i have said before. if what he was talking about is your 'jeng' then i concur that the kickboxer is indeed doing kung fu because he does use his mind, body and energy in his strikes. i still say, let me see the word you are failing to talk about. if your 'teacher' is from taiwan then he should be able to write it for you. scan it. put it up. let me read it.

born and raised on cantonese. a bit of mandarin cos the guys in my aunt's kitchen only speaks mandarin. and a few things in hokien (from one of my floor mates in uni but mostly it's how to curse at people...) as for 'fa jing'. it is a complicated thing, how chinese works i mean. technically, 'fa jing' isn't the name for a movement, it's more like a name for A WAY of moving. or if you like it is the name of the result of a way of moving. make sense? in case you're interested, the second section of the sil lim tao is called 'fa jing'

you know, for someone who supposedly does shidokan, you don't talk a lot about karate....

so what good is it being full contact if you are not allowed to hit the most useful target?

if you look at them rules for u.s shidokan, full contact, bare knuckles does not allow strikes to the head. in all types, there is a limit on where you can hit. it may be 'full contact' but where you make contact is limited... make of that what you will. as for the otehr two things you mentioned. i'll have a look when i don't have better things to do.

that's exactly what i mean. a lot of wing chun guys just don't have experience outside of their own training hall. and it's a well known fact that we don't like boxing jabs. it's not uncommon for us to enter tracking the first jab only to walk into the following one.... well i have anyway (thanks michael). could just be that i'm crap.

actually in cantonese, it's 'mo dong'. and if you're going on about how it's pronouced then it's more like 'ging' (g as in get) no. 'fa jing' means release/expenditure of energy/strength/force. explsove power would be 'bao ja lik'. just because i'm chinese does not mean i know anything about kung fu. in fact i know absolutely nothing about the subject. which still seems to be more than you know.

er, no. fa jing = release/expenditure of energy. it isn't the name of a strike. are you trying to argue about the chinese language with a chinese guy?