TangSooGuy

Well, TSD is definitely a good choice for punches, kicks, and weapons, although the weapons taught will vary from organization to organization and instructor to instructor, some TSD systems being very light on weapons training, actually. As with anything else though, the best thing to do is to go out and actually watch the classes at each of the schools and find the best one for you... I teach at a YMCA and am continually amazed at the number of parents that simply sign up their kids at the beginning of the month without checking into the class at all first....

the 'usually practiced as a sport' part would be completely wrong, and the 'oriental' part is misleading, as there ARE non-asian martial arts, just not ones that are as well-known. I would venture to say that martial arts are 'usually' NOT practiced as a sport.....

Well, I teach TSD, not TKD, so I don't know the rules for every specific tournament, but 'red' and 'blue' don't generally refer to the color of the gear you wear, in my experience... I allow mystudents to get whatever color gear they want. It really doesn't bother me.

When a new student from another style (or even another organization of TSD) transfers in, I am very up front with them, that regardless of what rank they have earned in the past, they will have to wear a white belt initially when training with me. I do this for a number of reasons, one of which is to avoid any potential problems that having them wear their old rank might cause. The chief reason, though is to check the degree of humilty and desire they posess. If they really want to train with me, they will be willing to wear a white belt for a little while. If they refuse, then they didn't want to train all that badly, and chances are good that they would have quit after awhile anyway. When the time is right (this will vary from person to person) they will be evaluated and brought in at whatever rank they have earned in our system, regardless of old rank. It may be equal to, lower than, or even above the old rank (although above would be unusual) I am a 4th Dan, and I expect no less of myself. If I were to start training in a new system, I would have no qualms about wearing a white belt.

I can't agree with you about the 'dedication and sacrifice' issue. I don't own a studio, or have 25 students, yet I feel that I am no less a 'master' of my style. I've been in my system since 1981, I attend numerous association (https://www.TSDMGK.com) events each year, train with my instructor on a weekly basis, teach for him whenever needed, sit on dan test shim sa boards several times a year, ran a full time studio before I graduated college, attend our 5 day Kodanja shim sa each year, etc... Just my opinion. Yes, I am in WTSDA...and the 4 stripes thing is a recent thing that all new master's candidates must go through, and like I said, IMO, a mistake, but I still stand by my association on the whole nonetheless. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone else's rank or status either, just illustrating that 4th Dan, and even 'master' mean different things in different systems. Nor am I saying that any one way is better than another. In our association, you cannot reach master rank unless you are chiefly responsible for the development and instruction of a new batch of students. I'm not asking you to agree with it because I do understand where the system breaks down, nor am I trying to say that you are any less of a 'master' than I am, just that the requirements are different, and I am aware that 'different' /= 'better'... but what can I say, it works for us, and it does have its benefits. In point of fact, from your post, you have been training 4 years longer than I have, and there's probably a lot I could learn from you. There are also a lot of 3rd Dans in our association that have been training longer than I have who I have tremendous respect for. Some would say it is wrong that I have passed them in rank, and they may have some good arguments to make that case. However, the fact remains that in our system, technical skill and even amassing great amounts of knowledge isn't what gets you to master. Nor is teaching for someone else, as I did that for several years...you have to take charge of your own group of students, and be ultimately responsible for their development. You basically have to become a martial arts 'parent'. Now this is way off-topic, and I'm probably typing myself in circles...let's just say I don't completely disagree with you and I don't refite your right to the master title, but I don't completely disagree with my association and its standards either. If you care to discuss the ay it works further, I'd be more than happy to, and you can send me a PM here at any time.

I can't agree with you about the 'dedication and sacrifice' issue. I don't own a studio, or have 25 students, yet I feel that I am no less a 'master' of my style. I've been in my system since 1981, I attend numerous association (https://www.TSDMGK.com) events each year, train with my instructor on a weekly basis, teach for him whenever needed, sit on dan test shim sa boards several times a year, ran a full time studio before I graduated college, attend our 5 day Kodanja shim sa each year, etc... Just my opinion. Yes, I am in WTSDA...and the 4 stripes thing is a recent thing that all new master's candidates must go through, and like I said, IMO, a mistake, but I still stand by my association on the whole nonetheless. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone else's rank or status either, just illustrating that 4th Dan, and even 'master' mean different things in different systems. Nor am I saying that any one way is better than another. In our association, you cannot reach master rank unless you are chiefly responsible for the development and instruction of a new batch of students. I'm not asking you to agree with it because I do understand where the system breaks down, nor am I trying to say that you are any less of a 'master' than I am, just that the requirements are different, and I am aware that 'different' /= 'better'... but what can I say, it works for us, and it does have its benefits. In point of fact, from your post, you have been training 4 years longer than I have, and there's probably a lot I could learn from you. There are also a lot of 3rd Dans in our association that have been training longer than I have who I have tremendous respect for. Some would say it is wrong that I have passed them in rank, and they may have some good arguments to make that case. However, the fact remains that in our system, technical skill and even amassing great amounts of knowledge isn't what gets you to master. Nor is teaching for someone else, as I did that for several years...you have to take charge of your own group of students, and be ultimately responsible for their development. You basically have to become a martial arts 'parent'. Now this is way off-topic, and I'm probably typing myself in circles...let's just say I don't completely disagree with you and I don't refite your right to the master title, but I don't completely disagree with my association and its standards either. If you care to discuss the ay it works further, I'd be more than happy to, and you can send me a PM here at any time.

Just curious, what is the difference between 4th dan master rank, and 4th dan instructor. We don't have that. When you test for 4th dan, if your instructor approves you can also test for Sa Bom. Also, I don't agree with not letting people progress beyond 4th dan if they don't own a studio. I know many people that are excellent kodanja members that don't own studios. In fact, in my dojang there are around 12 kodanja members, myself included, that are just students. Well, once upon a time there was no 4th dan instructor rank, only 4th dan master, and you couldn't progress past 3rd Dan unless you were a studio owner ( a studio owner is defined as anyone running there own school, out of a YMCA, health club, or commercial, etc who has 25 or more registered students) We got to a point where there were a lot of 3rd Dans who could not progress due to this requirement, and teh association decided to implement a 4th Dan rank which is 4th stripe on the black belt, but not the master rank, which is signified by a central red line. It was a mistake in my opinion, and a temporary patch on a problem that will arise again when there are large numbers of 4th dans who cannot test for master rank. I used to believe as you did, that it was an unfair requirement, until I actually went through the process. i actually had to move across the state to start a school because there were too many in the area I was in. However, having been through the process, I see why it is the way it is. Master rank is reserved only for those who are willing to sacrifice and dedicate at least some portion of their lives to the art and to perpetuating the art through instruction. It's not a perfect system, and it may be in need of revision, but I understand why it is the way it is, and I accept it.

anyway...back on topic...it's a good technique, and effective when done right... It's actually very fast, so any negative effect of spinning is pretty negligent. I've twice minorly injured someone unintentionally using this technique, just because of timing... in both cases, my partner was advancing in while I spun at the same time. One I caught in the face and gave a gushing bloody nose... the other weighs almost 300 pounds...I caught him in the temple and he went down like a ton of bricks... Both times I pulled the technique after makig contact, as we wren't full contact sparring.... If I hadn't pulled it, the results probably would have been worse. So yes, I believe in the effectiveness of the technique, but the timing has to be correct. It's not a technique that should be used just for the sake of using it. Like any other technique, the situation and timing play a big role.

I've seen people break two boards doing this technique, and personally have broken one doing it, although i've never tried more. it's really not as hard as you might think, and as was said, has to do with driving power from the hips, rather than the shoulder and arm. it can be very effective in clode, but generally isn't going to produce as much power as a fully extended strike by the same person that is executed properly. ..and don't expect to be punching through the tops of any coffins with it if you happen to get buried alive .

I guess it all depends on what 4th dan does in fact represent... I started training in 1985, got my first Dan in 1989, 2nd Dan in 1991, 3rd in 1994... 4th....2003. official 4th dan master ranking...this year I didn't s top training at all during that time either...it's just that 4th Dan traditionally meant master rank inour system. If you aren't contributing heavily to the art, association, etc, you don't test for 4th Dan. If you don't own a studio, you don't get 4th Dan master rank, ever, and you can't progress beyond 4th dan instructor. The tsting process is also a minimum of 2 years for 4th dan, 3 years for 4th Dan master. You can't even get to be a 4th dan in our system unless you are least 22...and that's pushing it. Basically, it all just comes down to set of requirements. I don't have a problem with the idea, I just have a problem with the public perception that all dan ranks are created equal. They aren't. My 4th dan may have been a lot harder to attain than someone else's, and may have been easier to attain than someone in another system. ..as for the kids thing...I don't have any....but if I did, they would train if and when they were ready for it. i wouldn't force it upon them, but I do think it is valuable for children, and would definitely pass on the values, and make sure they had some basic understanding of awareness and self-defense.

Tiger, Wood, Yang

this is really too hard to even get into, and would require a thorough post that I just don't have time to write up right now...maybe someone else will... In my experience, though, it all depends on teh dojang. You could go to a TKD school and a TSD school and find that they are so similar you couldn't tell the difference...then go to another two schools and find that they are worlds apart rom the first two. Speaking in ridiculously oversimplified generalities..... TKD tends toward being more sport oriented, while TSD tends towards being more self-defense oriented, in my experience. Many TKD systems have tried to eliminate anything Japanese or Okinawan in their systems, while TSD has not (or not to the same degree)... Note that this is, as I said, a ridiculously simplified generalization, and can't be considered true in all cases... There are outstanding self-defense oriented, traditional TKD schools, and there are watered-down, sport-oriented, "McDojo" TSD schools... It all depends on the individual dojang and instructor.

I currently teach out of a YMCA, and am building up a solid student base there. My hope is to eventually start up in a second YMCA or community center, and one day to have a full time professional studio.

Before I moved to start my own club, We used to clean the entire school after every black belt/ instructor's class, as they were usually the last class of the day... it was also a way to keep the black belts in check , to let them know they wren't " all that".... I also remember one tournament where at the end of the day, the Grandmaster passed out Garbage bags to each of the 3rd Dans in attendance, and basically said "go clean up"... it's a good lesson, and one that often isn't taught enough....

If anything, I'd sooner believe that swimming is better exercise than running... it seems like your using more muscles in swimming...I know I'd rather run a mile than swim a mile any day.....

Frank Dux is probably one of the biggest frauds in the martial arts community, who has never been able to back up any of claims. Bllodsport is a good enough movie for what it was- completely mindless with some decent fight scenes thrown in...but don't take it is being remotely historicallly or bigraphically accurate.

Actually, Pat Croce is currently a Master in Tang Soo Do. http://www.de.psu.edu/news/#croce If your interested in TSD in philly, I recommend checking: http://www.wtsda.com/regions/Listing.asp?region=8 and checking to see what is near you. If you're interested exclusivly in Pat Croce's association, you're going to have to look into Amkor, which i'm not as familiar with.

Well, not knowing what you'e looking for, I'd tell you that your best bet is to go out a visit as many schools as you can in your area, watch some classes, and talk with instructors, then decide which is best for you. That said, if you're at all interesred in Tang Soo Do, I know a ton of instructors in the Philly area. You can send me a private message here at this board if you're interested in visiting any of those schools and checking them out.

depends on the dojang and the instructor. I won't lie to you, there is a certain emphasis on kicking, but I definitely incorporate plenty of hand techniques and grappling into my curriculum as well.

Look at his instructor... where do you think HE got it from? All joking aside, I think there are some very real situations in which walking away from a fight could be more harmful in the long run. Especially in a psychological game where someone is trying to establish dominance over you. Think of prison or school (in some places this isn't too different.) In some cultures, walking away from a fight is a sure way to be viewed as a punk who can be walked on. Would you rather put up with that, or put it to a stop at the beginning? This is NOT the same as fighting to merely protect your ego. I'm talking about a fairly rare (for most of us, probably) occurance. Agreed. A prime example is actually the bullyingthat many kids face in schools. Kids are repeatedly told to walk away while the bully makes their life miserable. There are times you have to stand up for yourself. It's really unfortunate that so many schools today have developed a no tolerance policy tat punishes both the kids in the above case, though. The teachers aren't allowed to protect students physically, and now students aren't allowed to protect themselves, either.

you know what...this argument gets really old. I'm not picking on you, nor am I saying the 13 year old in question earned his black belt. I am saying that age really isn't that big of a limiting factor. There are plenty of 13 year olds out there that have legimately earned their black belts. There are probably way more that haven't earned them, but that's more a symptom of the McDojo syndrome than the age itself. People just don't give kids nearly enough credit. McDojos will create a plethora of undeserving young black belts, but young black belts are not automatically an indication of a McDojo. Yes, most adults probably could defeat a young black belt by overwhelming them with sheer size and stength, but again that is a just a symptom of false confidence brought about by poor teaching methodologies. A young black belt should know that they will have to adopt different strategies when dealing with adults, if they are taught properly. Sorry this is a bit off topic, but it always gets me a little worked up when I see people making blanket statements about young martial artists. is their an epidemic of young black belts that don't deserve their rank? Absolutely. Does that mean that a young student CAN'T earn a black belt in the correct environment? Definitely not.

For a different perspective on the rank issue. I start anyone who transfers in from another system at White belt. I let them know up front that after a period of time, they will be evaluated and given whatever rank they have earned in our system, but they must start at white belt. I do this primarily to see if the new student is more concerened with their rank than their training. I'm a 4th Dan, but if I became a student in any of your studios, I would fully expect to wear a white belt.

I'll go a step further and say it was terrible. The best martial arts in the entire movie was when she jumped on the hood of the car.... terrible, terrible movie....

What's even funnier than you saying that is that it sound just like something your instructor would say.... ...all in good humor, folks...with a touch of seriousness, but mostly humor... anyway, the whole purpose of learning martial arts to so that you don't have to fight...unless you absolutely need to. "The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities. It is best to win without fighting. ". -Sun Tzu "The only rational purpose for mastering violence is to abolish it." -Larry Hama

Sorry, i like Sidey, too, and frankly he'd be smart enough to get the heck away from the Hulk, or use something else to his advantage to help him win... but if we're talking about an actual one-on-one fight...the Hulk walks away with it.