TangSooGuy

Personally, I am torn on this subject. I. too hate to see black belts handed out to kids liek they mean nothing, but I think this reflects a problem more with the mentality of the instructor giving the belt than with the idea of teaching children martial arts. Personally, not only do I think children should be allowed to learn martial arts, I think we as instructors have an obligation to teach children who are willing and able to learn. Please note the "willing and able" part of that statement. I will NOT award a child any belt, even a 9th Gup, unless they have shown a willingness to work for it, and a genuine drive to improve themselves. Instilling those values alone is reason enough for me to teach children martial arts. I am a believer that the martial arts to help to instill a certain level of morality, confidence, and discipline if they are taught correctly. Now, awarding chldren with belts simply because mom and dad have paid, or teaching clasess like day care, or allowing students with bad attitudes to progress through the ranks is just plain wrong. I'm sorry to say it, but in my classes, kids who aren't willing to work, or to show respect to their elders (regardless of rank), just don't stay around...it's simply too hard for them, not because we make it so they can't succeed, but because they are unwilling to do what it takes to succeed. I tell my youth students that until they show that they are willing to learn from me, I can't and won't teach them anything. Now, the physical/defense side of things. It's not practical to tell a young child that they are going to be able to defend themselves 100% of the time against a full grown adult. My students are made aware of that by having to defend themselves against me (I am 6'3", 200 lbs.). I let them do pretty much whatever they want (with some limitations of course), along with the stipulation that they cannot apply this much force against other students. Sometimes it just doesn't work for them, but sometimes it does, and let me tell you, there are times where 9 and 10 year old kids have actually hurt me enough that they could have gotten away in a real self-defense situation. In this day and age, I will give these kids any advantage they can get. Maybe they won't succeed, but they'll be far better off than if they had never had any training at all. I always teach awareness first, and always teach them to get away, that being their number one priority. I'm babbling a bit, but I feel strongly about this. I think the problem is that we set expectations for kids too low. We talk down to them, and teach down to them. Kids surprise me every day with their intelligence and ability. If you set expectations high, they will meet and exceed those expectations, so you can keep setting them higher. I don't think the problem lies within the kids themselves, but rather within setting our expectations for them too low, and in turn lowering our expectations of ourselves. EDIT: I, by they way, started training when I was ten, and am now thirty. I have never stopped training along the way. My training has shaped the person I have become, and without having trained as a child, I'd probably be much fatter, much lazier, and way more socially inept. I would have been insulted as a child if someone told me I did not have the mental or physical capacity to learn the martial arts. My instructor never talked down to me, and I am indebted to him for that.

I agree that you should definitely tell your instructor. Chance are he'll know you have experience just by watching you. That kind of thing is kind of hard to hide. There's no reason the class should have to know, but you definitely need to talk with your instructor. He'll want to know why you're interested in training in another art, and will want to make sure that your attitude to approaching a new art is correct. there will probably be a feeling out stage for you both, but as long as you keep an open mind and an empty cup, and he does as well, there really shouldn't be any problem.

Werll in response to the Bill Klase/ ToraSamaDo question, I found this website: http://www.atkarate.com/shihan.php which states that he earned his BB in Shotokan and Judo "by 1966". My organization doesn't even have a tenth dan, but if it did, it would be 2020 at the earliest before someone who got there first Dan in 1966 would be able to test for tenth Dan. Now, I'm not trying to flame anyone, nor am I trying to call anyone's credentials into question. I'm just pointing out why so many people here automatically raise an eyebrow when someone claims to be a tenth dan. Every system and organization has a different set of requirements, though. I will say that I was not able to find anything negative posted on the web about ToraSamaDo, or about Bill Klase, so I for one won't say anything negative about someone whom I've never met, nor about a style to which i've never been exposed. Again, I'm simply trying to point out why the doubt has come up.

Depends on the situation really. If your tuition is already high, then you might have something to complain about, but frankly those fees are actually pretty low. Some reasons that your instructor may need to charge for testing include: 1. Belts cost money. If the monthly tuition isn't covering it, that money has to come from somewhere. 2. If you are part of a larger organization, that organization may charge the instructor for processing and certification. Again, that money has to come from somewhere, and isn't always covered by tuition. 3. Do you have to break at your testings? If so, does your instructor provide the wood? Wood is getting to be very expensive, and cutting it is very time intensive... 4. Does your instructor ever bring in outside guests to sit on the panel? If so, it is correct protocol to take care of all the guests' expenses while they are visiting. More money that has to come from somewhere... 5. On a more philosophical level, is your rank and all that you have learned with it worth what you have to pay for it? Frankly, if someone offered me millions of dollars, but the catch was that I had to not only give up my rank, but all the knowledge that came with earning it, I'd never take them up on the offer. Just something to think about. Often testing fees can be a rip-off. If none of the above is true for you, AND your tuition is already pretty high, then maybe you have something to be a little bit upset about. However, in my experience, testing fees are often justified as well. It bothers me when people just assume that simply because an instructor charges for something, that automatically means that he is out to get you. I charge $40 for testing, because I HAVE to. All of the above cases are true for me, and in addition, I always take my testing panel out to eat afterwards. You may say that my students shouldn't have to pay for that, but I'm inclined to disagree. The testing panel is serving the students by being there and helping them to learn some valuable lessons through testing. I don't make any money off testing fees, but I do have to charge for testing. I would not be able to provide a test that is run nearly as well or provides anywhere near the positive experience I strive to make it if I did not charge these fees. Let me say that I am not trying to pass judgement on you, as it is possible that you are getting ripped off, depending on other factors. However, $20-25 is a very low fee for testing. I know schools that charge in excess of $100 for every test, on top of over $100 each month for tuition. It is those schools that tend to make me cringe a bit, and not the ones where the instructor is simply trying to make ends meet.

I dunno, I've never had much luck finding a uniform that fits right... I'm 6'3'', with an abnormally long torso, and long arms, but all things considered, my legs aren't really that long for someone my height. I have to buy a 6 in order for the top to fit, and they're still stoo short for me sometimes, but then the pants are way too long. basically, i need a size 6 top annd size 5 pants... oh well. anyway, the length of your top sounds okay to me. I'd rathe have one that is a little too long over one that is too short any day.

yeah, there are some interesting dynamics here. many people have said you shouldn't start a school until you are a 4th dan. In my association you can't get a 4th Dan Master Rank unless you have started and maintained a school... "school" being defined as any club/organinized dojang, through a YMCA or whetever else included, with at least 25 students having been registered with the Association. It's all a matter of pereception, I guess. On one side, there is teh viewpoint that you shouldn't be teaching until you've elarned a great deal about the martial art you are studying, which is valid. The other viewpoint is that you shouldn't achieve high ranking status until you've proved yourself as a teacher, which I think is equally valid.

Yeah, it's pretty intense... and from I've heard, your instructor did pretty well himself...

Well, I am back, I am sore and tired beyond belief, and I honestly don't think i could ever capture everything that happened and went through my mind this weekend. We trained for two days straight through, morning to night, and the testitself startedat about 10 PM Sat night. The test concluded between 1:30 and 2:00 AM, and it was after 3:00 AM before I was in bed that night, then back up for some more relaxed (mostly mental) training early on Sunday morning. I didn't get much sleep , but it was more than worth it. I felt like I did well at the test itself, but I will find out for sure in a couple of weeks. I messed up my sword form once, but did it again and it felt solid. I think that overall I was prepared, so there really wasn't anything that threw me for a loop, although it was a long and tough weekend, and I am feelingthe after-effects now The most humbling part for me was having the opportunity to watch more senior masters test for higher ranks, and seeing how much I truly still have to learn, even after all this time. I received several nice compliments from some of the masters on the test panel after it was over, so that is encouraging. More than anything, though, I learned a tremendous amount to bring back and share with my students, particularly regarding forms. Anyone who thinks the techniques in forms have no practical applications hasn't met some of the masters I had the opportunity to watch and work with this weekend. There was some truly amazing stuff that will force me to look at my forms even more deeply that I had been over the last couple of years. I think I'll actually need to reflect on it for a few days before it all starts to sink in. All in all, it was fun. If I was successful, I'll be promoted at our World Championships in July, and if not, I'll do it all again next year. I'm fairly confident that I performed very well, but I don't want to be overly confident until I receive the "official" word. Thanks for your support, everyone! It has been an experience I'm sure to never forget. It will be very nice to be able to just train a nd learn from the senior masters next year, though, without the pressure of testing (provided that I did, in fact, pass).

I study Tang Soo Do, and more specifically, am part of the World Tang Soo Do Association.. ..and Radok..Good Luck to you as well! It's been awhile since I was 1st Gup (equivalent of Kyu in Korean systems), but I still remember being there, and we all have to go through that process.. You are moving rapidly towards your 1st Dan, and that is a tremendous time of learning..soak it all up and enjoy it!

Well, the time has finally come, or at least that's what they tell me. After 20 years of training, and having undergone 2 out of 3 years of a three year testing cycle, I will be testing for my master's belt this weekend. I leave for Alabama tomorrow for about three days of training prior to my test on Saturday night...and have to be back at work on Monday I'm thinking I'll be pretty sore...hopefully I won't have anything broken though..last year there were some broken ribs and a messed up ankle... To tell the truth, I'm looking forward to it, but even after having been through something similar the last two years, I'm still a bit nervous. If all goes well, though, I'll be promoted in late July. This is a bit of a frivolous post, I'll admit, but I'm trying to get as much positive energy as possible going my way. Last week I was misearbly sick with Strep Throat and an infection that spread through most of my system, so I'm hoping I have that fully kicked by this weekend. I'm just glad it didn't decide to hit me this weekend. I can use as many good thoughts as I can get, though... This is the culmination of a lot of work, and I definitely need to thank my wife , my family, and all of my instructors past and present for getting me this far...in a lot of ways it's like becoming a white belt all over again. Anyway, believe me when I say if I can do this, anyone can. I tell my students that the only difference between me and them is thatI've been around longer. So, if there is any advice I can give, it would be pretty simple: just keep training. Don't give up. Sure it get's tedious and aggravating sometimes, but no one ever said it would be easy, and nothing really worth doing ever is. OK, enough babbling... just had to vent out some of that nervous energy that's been building up....

I have one of Cabne Masters Canes...It really is extremely nice, and I give them a strong recommendation.

Most I've ever done is two...but I've seen up to four... I don't generally try to do more than two ever since I saw a guy blow his knee out attempting to do three....

Agreed... I also strongly recommend "Kodo: Ancient Ways" by Kensho Furuya

Sorry I should have been more clear- there really isn't any pratical "application"of technique or anything like that. I was looking at it more from an instructor viewpoint, and there was a lot of practical advice and stories, as well as a few sections which described sone drills that I was able to take back to my class and use. It's really more an ouline of how a Martial Artist should think and act, and while their are minor points I disagree with, on the whole I think the book is correct in its assertions.

Overall, I happen to think it's a great book, with a ton of good advice, ranging from the philosophical to the practical. There are times that Morgan comes off as a bit arrogant, but I think overall the good far outweighs the bad.

In terms of speaking in generalizations, a lot of what has been said is right on the money. However, the truth of the matter is thattoday there is so much variation within the two styles and how they are taught that it is almost pointless to compare them. You could run into two schools, one TKD and one TSD, that essentially teach the same thing, then pull in another TKD school that is completely different, and a fourth TSD school that is still different. I think the main thing about TSD as I study it is a willingness to embrace past traditions, even when it means accepting Chinese, Japanese, and Okinawan origins, and incorporating them into a Korean system. A lot of TSD doesnt do this, but a lot of it does, too. In my experience, there is generally more emphasis on hand techniques and grappling in TSD as well, but again, this is not alwys the case, and many TKD schools will have these components incorporated into their curriculum as well. Thee truth of the matter is that I believe, fundamentally, all arts are the same when taken to their highest level. It's the path to getting there that varies.

I run a club at a YMCA right now, which is a great way to get started. I fully intend to do it full-time one day, but let me tell you, if you're in it for the money (not suggesting you are), you're going to have a lot of disappointment along the way. I know some people who make a good living off it, and even some who have gotten to be what you might call 'rich', bu only after a ton of hard work, and in some cases literally living in a car because there was no money.... I think your best bet is to head to college first, get a degree, get a regular job, and start a school part time out of a YMCA, health club, rec center, etc...build up a student base first. Once you have enough students to cover the basic monthly expenses on a building, you can start loking commercial, but I'd still keep up the regular job awhile. In my experience, you need about 100 students before you can start looking at going commercial full-time. In some places it may be mre, in some places less. That's my plan, at any rate... The only other option is to get some start-up capital first...which can be considerably difficult as well...and then you have to pay it back, with interest...

Well, I agree with you to a point- learning martial arts from books and tapes without anything else is not the way to go. However, they can be a supplement to training with an instructor, if the instructor approves of what is being shown in the book or tape, and may be especially helpful to some beginners who are having difficulty remembering things from one class to the next. Too often, though, people try to learn from the book or tape at the expense of learning from an instructor, and all too frequently, the people making the tapes or writing the books put out low quality stuff in the attempt to make a quick buck, so you have to be very discerning in your choices. that's just my opinion, though...

I can do about 50 good ones, without cheating, with my face nearly touching the ground on each one, but after that, I'm beat, and my arms aren't much good for anything... most of the time though, I see people do "cheat" push-ups...frankly I'd rather see my students do ten good ones than 100 cheats....

Well, in my experience, I've never failed a test for a belt, but it is possible, and I've seen it happen on many occasions. Usually, there is more leeway at the lower ranks, as was said, and much more is expected at the senior levels. More often that not, people will pass the test, since for the most part, instructors don't (or shouldn't, anyway) let people test who aren't ready for it. There are instances, however, when there is just something missing, that students will fail tests. There are any number of reasons why it may happen, but for the time being, I'll leave it at that.

Some are good, some are bad. I really don't think you can generalize one way or another. I happen to belong to a fairly large organization, but I've never had anything but good experiences with it. It provides us with a standard curriculum and testing requirements, numerous training opportunities with highly skilled martial artists, well run tournaments that are for the most part free of the political crap rampant in most open tournaments, internationally recognized certification, a network of schools and instructors that provides with an opportunity to train in most places (vacation, moving, etc), a true extended family of which I'm glad to be a part, a training program for future instructors, knowing that there are qualified black belt instructors from other schools in my area that can cover my classes if the need arises, and the list goes on and on... Sure there are political issues that rear their ugly heads now and again, but for the most part you can avoid being involved in them. Our Association was recently awarded non-profit status actually, so it's not always about the money...and they stay out of the day-to-day operations of member studios, unless there is something horribly wrong happening. It costs me a whopping $50 a year to register my studio, and I'm a lifetime member, so annual membership fees are non-existent for me... There are fees associated with being part of certain Instructor's classes, and for annual Instructor certification renewal, but they are minimal, and truthfully, for me the benefits to myself and the opportunities for my students FAR outweigh any negatives that might exist.

Seems to me you'll pay a heavy price in joint wear for a kick with limmited uses practicing enough to get and stay profficient with this kick. Not to mention the othr injuries you could sustain in just trying it. But, I suppose, if it's worth the risk to you then go for it. Who knows, if nothing else it might get you on a magazine cover someday. Well, it is considered an "advanced" kick, so there is that...and I guess it all rolls down to how often you practice it, and if it is causing you any pain. I can do the kick now without any real problems, but I've been stretching since I was 10 years old, and have been doing that particular kick for somewhere around 17 years...

The opposite direction from the kicking foot, or even behind you...which contributes greatly to the stress on the knees, hips, and supporting ankle. It's a very hard kick to do if you're coming into the martial arts with limited flexibility, and some people's bodies just won't let them get this kick into 100% correct position no matter what they do. I've seen a lot of black belts get through defenses with this kick, and you actually can produce a lot more power than it might seem. Foot gear does limit it's effectriveness, I will admit that. I don't suggest doing it TOO often, though, as to do it 'right', you're basically pulling every joint and tendon from your hips down to your ankles in directions they really weren't meant to go...

Well..I belong to the same association as tommarker, so i do this kick, but I've also heard it called a reverse or inverted roundhouse, so yes, it's the same kick. I've found it's very good for sneaking in under someone's defense and penetrating to the abdomen, as most people just aren't expecting your foot to come in at that trajectory. i also like using it combination by using the same foot and fliiping it over into a traditional high roundhouse kick. The first kick tends to bring their hands down, and the second pops up quickly to the face. It's a tricky combination, and could be murder on you if you have bad knees or hips, so I don't suggest everyone trying it, but I really like it.

I've only had the opportunity to do this a few times, but it's actually a great tool. It's also good to go over the tape with an instructor, so you really can see what areas you need to work on. The only draw back is that you'll often think your technique felt much better when you were doing it that it looks on the tape...but in the end it will just make you that much better.