Treebranch

Thanks Kirves.

Dude if you practice that and train hard, it's not impossible. Do you guys even know how to do standing locks? JohnnyS you have some good points. I just want to clarify something. NHB fights are the closest thing to fighting a trained fighter with a limited amount of rules. A street fight is still very different, because you can't watch previous footage of your attackers fights and train for that. Comparing it to reality is just silly.

I think you are all biased, and it's obvious why. I not saying Gracie didn't do great things. He and his family have produced a great grappling art. The difference is you guys are Gracie fan boy's and I'm not. So I'm trying to see things objectively. I don't care who Kimo or Gracie are personally. I've watched that fight at least 4 to 5 times and in my opinion, I think Kimo could destroy Gracie in a street fight. You can disagree, you have that right. Fact is Gracie couldn't continue after fighting Kimo and Kimo looked like he could easily go again. There was only one thing in my opinion that saved Gracies hide and that thing was Kimo's stupid pony tail.

O.K. the UFC and NHB is the Holy Grail of the Martial Arts World. There never has been and never will be anything more effective what we are seeing now. Everyone since the creation of Combat fighting were just fooling themselves thinking that their MA's work. I guess we should just do away with any form of MA's that hasn't proven itself in the ring or that has been represent there and lost. UFC is absolutely the real thing. It is reality not a sport at all. These people go in there and are literally trying to kill eachother. Did you know that NHB fighting has less injuries than football and soccer? Yeah, those fight are real. They are death matches? Yeah! That's what they are. Man have I been fooled by all those MA's out there teaching useless techniques to CIA and FBI and who know's how many other law enforcement agencies have been bamboozled. What a wake up call.

What would be the drastic differences between these to Schools? I would be very interested to hear from someone who actually studies Koryu. http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~jimgould/ohistory.html I think this is a pretty good explanation of Budo Taijutsu or if you like Modern Ninjutsu. Read it and let me know what you think.

He helps instruct, but I'd have to ask him. Gracie won the fight with the rules and starts and stops that don't happen in real life. Yeah, I'm guessing. Come on be honest he would have got rocked by that monster in a real situation.

Yeah, I know what you are saying. I'm not talking about Bujinkan, I'm talking about Ninjutsu Ryuha did they exist before the Bujinkan? Or do the Koryu have Ninjutsu Ryuha in them? I hope this is clearer. Check this out what do you think? http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~jimgould/ohistory.html

I don't know bro, I think you're limiting yourself. Remember Kimo and Gracie? If they had been in the environment we are talking about Gracie would have been destroyed. So how do you know if someone is hiding a weapon in one of their hands and waiting for you to close the distance so they can gut you? Be very careful of being so over confident about sacrificing yourself to the ground when you don't have to. I have friends that study with the Machados and man they are hard headed bro. My friend weighs 160 and I weigh 230, most of the time I just relax and move and he can't do anything. I'm just playing with him. If I start throwing strike as I move he's done. He says I'm too big for him.

Hey Reklats do me a favor. Next time you're in a standing position and you have a good distance from your opponent and he tries to shoot in on your legs, step back on a 45 degree angle. See what happens, look how open he'll be. Also when you are in clinch with someone give them a little smack and watch the way his body reacts. If his back bends backwards step into that space you created and throw him. If his back bends forward kick the supporting leg closest to you and throw him forward. Do you guys cover balance points or triangulation? I think you would find a lot of good stuff in Budo Taijutsu that might surprise you. The principals of how to move and how to take someones balance are more important than the techniques, but they kind of go hand in hand. Also never stop moving when applying a technique, flow with it. Any pause is enough for someone to be able to counter it. If you have good flow, most of the time they won't even know what happened.

Not necessarily true antichem. Did you see that lawyer who was shot at close range and survived. Some old guy with a revolver wanted to kill him over some kind of money dispute right outside a court house in Van Nuys California. The victim got out of the hospital that same day. This person wasn't even trained in anything and he survived. He was shot something like seven times. He used a tree and danced around the tree to avoid the bullets. Bdaze isn't Taijutsu awesome?

TJS, you don't even really have to get the lock on perfectly and many times people can tolerate the pain. The real key to making any throw or lock work is taking the other persons balance and taking advantage of it. Also, I have to say I've seen at least 30 NHB fights on video and at times you can see these guys hold back sometimes. They often are being very sportsman like. I think if these guys wanted to kill eachother and really break bones these fights would look a lot different. Don't you think?

So are you going saying there was never any Ninjutsu Ryu in practice in Japan during the Warring States Period?

Click your heels twice and say " There's no place like home."

TJS you are right, but there is a way to deal with wild punch. Wild punches come from around or down the middle. So distancing can aid here, but more importantly moving offline then closing the distance strike-take balance with strike-clinch-takedown in one flowing movement. Elbow, fists, head, forearms, open hand, shoulders, knees, hips, and whatever else you can strike with all come into play to make the takedown easier for you. The important point I'm trying to make is, if you can take a person down you don't necessarily need to go down with them.

Look the reality is that if you are being attacked by more than one person that really know what they are doing, you will probably need a weapon of some kind to equal the occasion. You don't display the weapon, you keep it hidden and use it if you have to. The other thing is that you can train for multiple attackers and there are certain tactics that are very helpful. Are they fool proof? No, but nothing is. Yes there are MA's that teach this stuff and I've been in that real situation and here to talk about it. You position yourself in the right place and things just happen. O.K. now you're just be silly. I don't believe any of this crap so don't think I do. If you believe that you can be effective at moving efficiently on the ground, why is it so hard for you to believe that you can't learn how to move effectively on your feet? Also, with good grappling the locks and holds happen with your body movement, Right? Good grappling isn't a test of your strength. All those locks and holds you are doing come from Jujutsu and some come from Kodokan Judo. The way GJJ people train is more important than the art they teach, which is great. Just know that if you train realistically with most any true Combat MA you will be able to handle yourself in most situations. Let me pose a question to you. If all fights go to the ground and that's where you automatically take the fight, what do you do when there is no ground or not enough space to go to the ground? For example, you are standing on sharp rocks or there is broken glass everywhere, or you are up high where you might fall off and die? What then? Also, if you can't take me down what how are you going to be effective?

See the problem is that the same way you use your body on the ground can be done from a standing position. Many of the lock and hold done in GJJ can be done standing as well, the key is their balance. Also, you can move to places where they can't punch you effectively. You're going to get hit whether it's standing or on the ground. I think you just feel more comfortable there and that's cool. I just think that now that you are developing a strong base of ground fighting work on your stand-up skills and learn how to take someone down without sacrificing yourself. Like I said when I have the time and money I'm going to take up some ground fighting. We do quite a bit of it in class, but there is so much more to MA's than just being able to destroy someone. I also think GJJ has a lot of room to grow into a complete MA and maybe someone besides the Gracies will take to the next level where is no need to cross train with it. I think learning how to fight with weapons is very important especially when there is more than one person. There are ways of fighting with objects that will aid you in controlling someone.

If you move too early it might track you. If you move too late, well you know what would happen. If you move at the last instant they think they got you and you are really in a good position to do what you want if you know what to do from there. Timing is so important in any fighting art.

What do you did I used to? Hehehe. No I never liked the stuff. Anyway, thanks for listening. I thought it was kind of interesting.

Reklats believes: Well maybe you just prefer that to the other. It may seem ineffective to you compared to the other, but can it be you just did not learn it correctly? Or you just weren't that good at it? Or you just don't have the patience to learn it? You can't just think that every fight is going to be the same and end up on the ground, that's not very realistic. There's way too many factors to account for in a real situation and you are risking way too much by automatically going to the ground.

Yeah, that's cute. Anyway it's not a good combat system by any means. It is ground fighting, probably the best. You can't run away in combat or you will be considered a coward and be executed. BJJ is good in the ring because it's limited and works well one to one. If you train one to one, you will be good one to one. If you train one to one and mulitple, you will atleast have a better chance than someone who doesn't. By the way most Combat Systems teach weapons along with the hand to hand, BJJ does not. It is not a complete Combat System, it is only part of a whole. That's why NHB fighters mix it with stand up arts, hence MMA. Sorry, but this is in no way to discount the specific effectiveness of BJJ or GJJ. Have you studied any other MA besides GJJ? If not then I would like to discuss this with you after the fact. I haven't had the time or money to study GJJ, if I did I'd add it to my repertoire. http://www.geocities.com/bnyd/page6.html Read more about Takamatsu here on this link.

Same thing. GJJ could use more stand up skills in it. I don't see why they don't evolve and include strikes and kicks and stand up grappling that doesn't require you to go to the ground. It is mostly groundfighting which only one aspect of fighting.

Not when your busy grappling on the ground. Get real dude. GJJ is designed for the ring, that's all. Is it good?, yes. But there are better more realistic fighting arts out there. In real life you have to worry about the possibility of other people getting involved. Especially when you are beating the crap out of their friend or bother. So are you saying that never in the history of mankind that one man has never survived a fight against 3-4 people? I'll give you the name of a man who has, Takamatsu Sensei.

Yeah, there are no katas in wrestling.

My point is if you are on the ground, how can you run if you need to? Star Wars sucks by the way.

Kempo is to believed to come from a Master from China who went to Korea and was then brought to Japan where most of they fighting arts were referred to as Jujutsu.