wildbourgman

ps1, Don't feel like you're alone, I had only trained shotokan and when I started Shorin Ryu this was discussed. I thought it was a bunch of bull at first, but after a little research I found it's supposed to be a much better way to compound and focus pressure to the point of impact. Now your point of impact has to be correctly picked and accurately placed. Lyoto Machida has at least a couple of knock outs on youtube using toe-kicks, after seeing that I was a believer.

I agree with mal103, there are plenty of techniques in karate that can fill the gap that people feel they need to go to BJJ for. I know alot of sport karate styles have deemphasized these techniques but they are available.

I was going to start a new thread but this has been talked about a bunch already. I want to express some things that I've been seeing but didn't want to start a debate. I come from a Shotokan background originally and I now also train Shorin ryu. I see that Shorin Ryu has more aspects of a fuller fighting style, but I think it also has some weakness in todays society especially in the west. The first thing is that my Shotokan experience was hard training with fewer techniques that we worked on over and over until we were very sharp. We didn't do alot of bunkai, little to no tuite, and were very ridged in many aspects until you became a higher rank. Over 24 years after my last Shotokan class, I'm in a new town as an adult now with no Shotokan and I'm wanting to get my kids into Karate. After a bunch of research I find a Shorin Ryu school with a great instructor. After watching the first few classes I notice that many of the students technique looks rather weak and they seem to forget what they have learned. Well now that I'm also training there I have come to see that one of the problems is that Shorin Ryu has so many more techniques that are practiced along with weapons. It appears to be very difficult for students to get sharp and hone there skills because they don't have the repetition. The kids class for example ranges from beginners to blackbelts 6 year old to 16 year old and it's one hour two times a week. Not trying to get into a which is better debate, but I can see one of many reasons the Japanese didn't get the whole Okinawan package. It's alot of information to digest and then to try to have it become muscle memory and a fighting instinct in this day and age, I don't know.

I'm happy that the last two folks know what I've saw and I appreciate the reponses and explanations. Thanks!

Does anyone have a resource that directly correlates katas of different systems and their different names for each style along side the equivalent kata name in different styles. Such as Naihanchi-Naifanchi-tekki and what styes that use each particular name.

I hope to test under Mr. Mikami before he retires. All of my other certificates have his signature it would be really nice to get another one 25 years later. One of my problems is I work in the oilfield so my training is either alone or sporatic in a dojo. I'm trainging Shoring ryu with one or two classes a month of Shotokan. I hope the technique variations within Shorin Ryu don't affect me testing in Shotokan.

I understand andyn and I don't worry about the variances of the different katas on youtube. What did kind of concern me was the fact that I don't want to re-learn something for a rank test and have my muscle memory fight me because of years of practing this kata one way. So it wasn't just any youtube variation on any old kata, it was this particular video it was a specific organization attach to the video and also this specific kata. I've seen various Karate Federations make official changes to katas and techniques and I thought that maybe I was seeing one on that clip. After a little more research and discussion I'm not as concerned as I was when I created this thread. Thanks!

Well my problem is a lack of cardio work and continuous karate training for the last 25 years. I was never the best in point kumite or even light contact sparring when I was in the best shape of my life, but I wasn't horrble either. My problem is I still think like I'm 16 years old, my reflexes aren't real bad at all, but I can't spar more than a minute or two without being very winded. Now in a real fight I wouldn't be trying to throw as many techniques trying to impress a judge. Getting back to the topic I would focus on my opponent and basically go with my Shotokan background and try to utilize one counter attack or a short sequence in order to end it fast. In my shape I have no other choice for a real scenario. I still have some power, timing and technique, but less speed and poor cardio. I'm not running away that's for sure. That's another reason I'm real interested in getting to know Shorin Ryu tuite, just another tool in the tool box. I'll probably never really need it and I hope to keep it that way.

For me I have to focus on breathing, because my cardio is horrible. I can block alot of attacks and counter well, if I don't have a heart attack first. I need to take the time to get my cardio right. In a way I'm very dangerous to anyone that attacks me on the street, because after I hit them with a few very strong techniques I'm probably going to collapse and they will be charged with my murder. I guess I'll have to warn people "please don't attack me it's not worth 20 to life".

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gG5JScqpdtg/TOLNloyHOOI/AAAAAAAAAR8/x2qmfyxCGBE/s1600/Bassai+Dai.jpg I don't know if this will work, but on this diagram I'm watching right hand placement between move 4 and 5. Gary it's very fast I wish I knew how to run you tube in slow motion.

I don't think anyone knows what I'm seeing. Let me try to clear it up. What I'm seeing is that between what's normally the fourth move (chudan soto uke) and the fifth move which is a chudan uchi uke (mid level block from the inside outward) the karateka is adding a gedan barai. The fifth move is one move before the scooping block. Every other youtube clip and everyone I've ever seen do this kata (in Shotokan) does not perform it this way. I don't have a problem with it it's just new to me. Am I the only one seeing this?

I also think many styles just de-emphasize some aspects of training. For instance there was abundant tuite in Shotokan, but I rarely had any training in it except for kata bunkai explanations from time to time. When I train in Shorin Ryu there is certainly more tuite training than in Shotokan, but no-where what it could be. I see that alot of old Dojo's are now crossing over into offering some BJJ, primarily because it's a hot commodity. The free market dictates BJJ growth because of it's recent MMA success, so praticioners are learning and teaching it. My view is that if my Shotokan and Shorin ryu examples actually dedicated more time to tuite it could compete with BJJ (to a certain extent) without actually having to offer BJJ at the same dojo. Now as far as comparing BJJ ground work with in depth karate tuite I may be way off base, but I might be closer with Japanese Jujitsu and karate tuite training. What I took a long time to get at is that many styles have well rounded techniques and training available, but we follow fads just like everything else in our modern fast paced civilization.

Gary, it's so fast. His right arm goes to a down block and right up into uchi uke. It's a distinct separate movement. I wish I had the capability to take a snap shot. I see what your saying but he's not just crossing or even crossing a little lower than most people he's emphasizing the down block for a fraction of a fraction of a second. I'm not really concerned about it anymore I do think it's a neat addition on his part. I am curious if that being done anywhere else in the JKA.

Guy's look at the video again. I'm not talking about the scooping block. It's before that about five moves into the kata. It's so fast you almost can't see it happen. It's around the 15 to 16 second mark of the video. I've never seen it anywhere else. It's amazingly fast. Yes, I was in associated with Takayuki Mikami's group, Mr Mikami tested me all the way to 1st Kyu when I stopped training at a dojo in the late 1980's. I've been away from training for many years. I had moved away from any Shotokan dojos when I decided to start training again, so I found the closest style and most traditional dojo I could in my area and that ended up being Shorin Ryu with a really good Sensei. Well one weekend I decided to see if I could re-learn my Shotokan kata's so I used Kanazawa's old video's on you tube. Then I hatched a plan to try to start working toward my Shodan in Shotokan and I found an old Dojo-mate of mine that now has his own dojo. I now work with him as much as time allows as well as Shorin Ryu. I was a little freaked out because I pretty much have Bassai Dai down and then I saw that variation on you tube. I just want to make sure that's not something new that I will have to learn.

I was watching a youtube clip of a JKA karateka performing Bassai Dai which I'm going to have to perform for my Shodan test eventually. I'm just getting back into Shotokan after many years so there are a few minor changes that I've learned about from my Sensei. While watching the clip I noticed that on roughly the 5 move of the kata there was a gedan barai right before the Chudan uchi uke. I've never seen that before. Is that new or just a variation by the practioner? I couldn't get the link to work but if you search the title below it should pop up. The move is about the 15 second mark of the video. Bassai Dai JKA Shotokan Karate @KarateZine

Chris I was in the same boat, your story reminds me of myself except I was 16. I just started driving, dating, got a job, started playing in a band, and my father had gotten laid off from his job and we really didn't need to pay for karate dues. Over the years I could have restarted my karate training but I didn't, I had a lot of hobbies and excuses. So I moved away from my home town and then decided to start training again except the style that I was in was nowhere near my new home. I found the closest style I could find with a real good Sensei and now I'm trying to also train in my old style once a month with an old classmate of mine that has a club three hours from my new home. I also now have severe neck and back problems and no cardio. I work a 14 day on and off schedule and I'm in my old hometown for about 10 hours prior to flying to work and that's when I train in my old style. I also own a small working ranch and have a wife and kids. So I went 25 years when I could have easily got back into training, I had time, health, and proximity but I had too many excuses and many were legit. Now I'm older, overweight, working a full time job, own a ranch and don't live close to my original style of choice. I don't miss a single class. So that was a long way to say push through it now if you can and you'll be glad you did.

I need to know how to stretch my old brown belt and gi that I wore when I was 16 and weighed 135 pounds. Over the past 25 years it all must have shrunk. I can't even tie a knot with the belt and the gi makes me look like a sausage. It's crazy how that phenomenon has affected my clothing over the years.

I have another way to think about kids ranks and ranks in general. I'm a beginner in Shorin Ryu and I'm going to a small Shorin RYu Federation tournament soon, I hold a 1st Kyu in Shotokan that I quit actively practicing when I was 16 years old. I'm 41 now. Well I started relearning and practicing my beginnner Shotokan katas and I'm going to perform two of them in the tournament. I'm also going to take part in kumite. Under what level should I enter the tournament? Beginner, Intermediate or advanced? Physically I'm not advanced in anything except age, but I'm not truely a beginner or intermediate. I don't care about winning or losing, but I don't want to look stupid. My plan was to try to talk to the tournament director and let him decide what would be fair I just want to have fun. Any thoughts?

He's 1 st Kyu and around 13 or 14. He's going to move from Louisiana to Fort Hood Texas when school is out and his father is willing to travel two hours to bring him to the nearest Kenshin Kan Shorin Ryu club until school starts again. After that he's not going to be able to make the long drive during school days.

I think the young man would really like to get his blackbelt in Shorin ryu first before trying other styles, I wish I would have done that years ago. He's going to make a push to try to accomplish that endeavor prior to moving but I don't think he's going to make it. It's crazy because I couldn't find any place in the area that I would instantly direct him to just from extensive internet searches. I was looking for Shorin, Isshin, Goju, Wado, Shito, ETC and nothing that jumped out at me. It seamed to me that around an old military base you normally find an extensive range of martial arts styles to pick from. There were a bunch of Korean styles and MMA stuff in the area but I'm pretty sure that's not this fellows cup of tea and not going to help him reach his black belt in Shorin any faster. So we are still looking.

I have a young classmate in Shorin Ryu that has achieved his 1st Kyu and his father is getting stationed in Fort Hood Texas. He's trying to find a Shorin Ryu club as close to Fort Hood as possible. I've been all over the internet and can't find any Shorin schools even close. We've dicussed him possibly going to Shotokan which is about the closest style to Shorin Ryu available in the area. If anyone knows of anything in that area that is close to Shorin Ryu please let me know.

I'm a new guy here but my take is that one thing that I had overlooked is that beginner Heian katas in Shotokan are taught as somewhat advanced Pinan katas in Shorin ryu as you get closer to black belt.