delta1

From another thread: Two Canadians talking there about the same common type fight. Hockey is a big sport up there in the frozen north. Where I live, wrestling is a big sport, and it is common for one guy to try to take it down if he's getting thumped. I've also lived in many places where football is the big sport, and you'd see guys just go at it, trying to bash the **** out of each other. Same where boxing is big, even untrained fighters tend to bob and weave and hook and jab. People tend to mimmic what they see. So, I'm thinking, does the predominant sport in your area seem to effect how fights tend to play out? How about other cultural influences- say wearing of cowboy boots makes kicks a common effective weapon? Just a thought.

Yes, charges are common. No, stand up fighting is not useless in a charge. Footwork, evade and counter. I love chargers, they give you all that commitment and momentum to wotk with. Pushing, sucker punches, sneak attacks, weapon threats and attacks, and grabs are other common ways to start a fight. One guy might get your attention while his buds get in position to cut you off or surprise you from behind. Generally, fights either start suddenly or with an attempt at intimidation and buildup of anger/hostility/courage. But there is no one, or even most reliable script for how it will start or how it will go.

TKD Chosen One, I'd have to disagree. A lot of women tend to have, and keep, better form than the men in sparing. Men can tend to try to just out muscle or out bludgeon their opponents. Women, who are generally not as strong, depend more on technique and finesse to do the job. Add to that generally better ballance and flexability, and a deviouse nature (sorry gals, but you know it's true ), you'd do well not to underestimate them.

All of the above, plus the runner. Not just a retreater, or a defensive sparer, but I mean a runner! Who lets people like that in a martial arts class, any way? Or, how about the guy that everytime you spar wants to stop the fight and lecture you on how "That is not legal! That would get you disqualified in a tournament!" Who cares? And, let's not forget the guy that has to give it that little bit extra before he lets you tap out, or "forgets" that hard kicks to the knees are not allowed in sparing, or ... . Fortunately, these bad partners are not the norm. I have to agree with the old cowboy who, when told "It takes all kinds," replied "Nah, it don't take all kinds, we just got all kinds."

Think of knees and elbows as in close strikes and kicks. Elbows especially can add flow to your assault. Instead of just withdrawing your hand after a strike, follow on in with an elbow. Same with a punch that is intercepted incorrectly- collapse the arm and convert it to an elbow strike. Instead of just crescenting around behind his leg for a sweep, kneehis quads as you step behind. Getting a knee up into his mid-section can keep a grappler off you enough to let you work. There are infinite ways to use knees and elbows. Find a style that teaches the use of elbows and an instructor that knows how to teach it.

In my region of Washington State, TKD is by far the most popular.All of it is non-traditional- in fact, I don't even know where the closest traditional TKD school is. In my narrow little part of the state, you have a choice of TKD, or a different flavor of TKD. FMA's, if taken as a whole, would be next most popular. A lot of TKD schools also teach some kind of FMA. The one I'm with does Modern Arnis. When you get over toward Spokane and into Idaho there are a lot of different martial arts, including some very good Kenpo and Kempo schools. (I really want to move back to Spokane! ) The Seattle area as well has a good variety of martial arts, especiallysome really good CMA's. (Forget moving there for anything. ) I'm not too familiar with Wenatchee, but I do know they have an instructor there that is a living dictionary of FMA's- Mr. Jeff Brae. They also have Qi Fighting Concepts, Sifu Joseph Simonet's organization- definately world class.

How did you get injured? 'Racoons eyes' is one sign of a basilar skull fracture, so if you've had any major trauma I'd see a doctor. But, I had a friend who got hit in a fight so hard he got two black eyes, and he did not have a basilar skull fracture. He was a lot uglier for a while. If it is just a bruise, then deep, hard massage is the only thing I know to help move the discoloration out quicker. But, by Valentines day...? Try the cucumbers, then at least if your girlfriend gets hungry ...

Random jumping drills (a la the Pink Panther movies) are fine. So are other awareness drills. But, the real chaos starts when combat is engaged, whether a surprise or not. The way to train for this is to pad up, glove up, get in close and mix it up. None of this 'tag sparing', or hold him off with a few kicks. Get in close,where things happen fast, and hit hard. Learn to take the hits and still function. AND, for a real dose of chaos and awareness, NOW is when the instructor should jump in and thump you! Enjoy!

Well, my two cents (from the most junior TKD practicioner here), I refuse to jump. First, my knees won't take it. But more important, when you jump you give up your base. Not a good thing, in my book. I've seen too many ma's look real good going up, but they splatter when they land. No, thanks.

First what is necessary in a fight is will. You have to be willing to put yourself in harms way, and be willing to do seriouse harm to another human. Fear, while it can debilitate, can also give you this will. A lot of what the reality training courses do is teach you to harness and use fear. Same with the adrenal dump. You also have to get over a lot of moral training that is generally wrong. "Thou shall not kill" and "Turn the other cheek" has been pounded into most of us all our lives. And, I'll say flat out that 99% of the preachers, teachers, and others who throw this drivel at you don't have a clue what they are talking about. The first passage is more accurately translated as "Don't commit murder", and the second was for the specific purpose of showing restraint to win converts, not for someone punching your face. So, the first requisite is that something has to be triggered in your brain that takes you out of this complacent, civilized mode and put you into a combat mindset. Second, you have to have intent. A hard defense is ok, but you won't win anything unless you intend to do dammage. They say that most soldiers experiencing combat for the first time shoot to miss. You may have the will to face your opponent, you may even be willing to hurt him some. But in a seriouse fight, you have to have the intent to take him out before he takes you or someone else out. Next, you must have some skills. Not just the ability to strike, anyone can do that. You need to strike effectively. You also need to do it in the chaos of a fight. Huk Planas said "Expect chaos, train in chaos, thrive in chaos." The person who does that will probably win. All of this can be studied and trained for. So, no, you don't have to actually go out and look for trouble to learn to fight. Some people can do this naturally, for others the situation may be sufficient. But I'd say if you are training for self defense or to use your arts in some capacity, you need to train for these skills as much as for the actual techniques.

kotegashiNeo, that is true. And the grapplers don't tend to sit back and extend their punches either. What I found when I tried this with a fair grappler was I had to modify the technique some- instead of the parry across I tried to get under and behind his elbow and grab and pull in. Then get something with the other hand and pull as you arch onto one shoulder and knee him with the opposite leg. The effect is not unlike a wrestlers bridge. You aren't out, but yuo've loosened his seat, took some of his ballance, and have a little room to work. I still really want to work this with a good grappler, someone who really knows what he's doing. But for the average street encounter this technique stands a good chance of getting me back where I want to be- on my feet! Glad you enjoyed the other TOW's.

Everything in it's own time and place, and you are the only judge of what's right in any situation where you are assaulted. To quote Mr. Parker, "It's not who's right, but who's left." I think the main point here is that you stand a far better chance of resolving any situation to your favor if you catch it early, before your opponent strikes or you are forced to take seriouse action yourself. And if it is truly unavoidable, "forewarned is forearmed."

I can't stand it any more! Whether TKD is or isn't karate has nothing to do with whether anyone is a commie or not. That someone embezzled money has absolutely nothing to do with what we call anything (unless we are calling the embezzler a crook). And of course long term Japanese occupation influenced local culture and arts, but it didn't completely change the language. Not that the history and politics isn't interesting, but let's keep this in perspective. TKD in the USA is called karate for one reason- MARKETING. Name recognition! To get people with money in the door so you can get them to willingly part with some of it. In the 50's and early 60's when exotic martial arts were first gaining popularity, there were really only three kinds of Oriental MA's here: Judo, Karate, and "whaaAAT?!?" That's all anyone knew, and even now this general ignorance persists, with the exception that TKD has also become a generic term, in many peoples minds interchangable with karate. Sort of sordid, ugly, and dissapointing, huh? I know, it cheapens the experience for some. But, there it is. Commerce, enterprise, the prostituting of art for filthy lucre. A brand on the soul of every... aah, never mind.

ninjanurse, I was thinking somewhat along those lines as I read the original post. The fight starts long before a strike is thrown. It started because someone decided to harm someone else. Someone got in harms way. Someone was not aware, or did not recognize the warning signs. Someone did not diffuse, or let a situation escalate. The fight is on as soon as you interpret his intent to be hostile. Catch it early enough, you may be able to deescalate. If not, there will come a point where you dang well should get in the first strike. But the fight started long before you took his head off with your anything but weak or ineffective 'first strike.' You want his friends to know that you do know your business and have the will to use your skills to full effect.

10 Step Program for Getting Your Own 'Style' 1. Pick a system. 2.Learn it completely and as well as you can. 3.Out of what you've learned, pick what works best for you and really concentrate on that. You now have your own 'style'. 4. Continue to learn in your system. 5.Learn from other systems, maybe even learn a complete system. 6.Out of what you've learned, pick what works best for you and really concentrate on that. Your 'style' has improved. 7.Teach your system to others, forgeting about your personal 'style'. Congratulations, your 'style' is getting good enough that you can re-evaluate and improve it. 8.Challenge one of the Gracies, or maybe Frank Shamrock, to a match. Or maybe walk around East LA at about 10:00PM, shouting racial slurs. Now, you know how good your 'style' is. 9.Pick a new system. 10. Repeat steps 1-9. Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

Whos fault any of it is is irrelevant. Your school has different standards, and he doesn't meet them. Droping to an appropriate grade is to his advantage and yours, and the rest of the students as well. He gets the instruction he needs to move on, and is not a brown belt stuck in the begginers group to do it. You deal with him at an appropriate level without a lot of special consideration and extra instruction. Other senior students don't have to stand around and wait until you bring him up to speed before instruction continues. Just a few examples of what I mean, I'm sure you can think of others. You can put him on a fast track for promotion as his skills come up to par. This should help if he's feeling like he's been done wrong. But, frankly, he'll just have to get over that regardless. Does your school have a written protocol for this situation? That would assure fair treatment for everyone, and would take the sting out of 'demoting' transfer students. Of course, if they are too ridgid they can cause problems of their own. But they are a good tool to have in this type situation.

The sound effects are not faked. He uses a LOT of force, and clean, crisp moves. You don't train to do that? But, as you'll notice, he did not really break his uke's elbow- he also uses a lot of control. I tried the ground fighting tip tonight at class. We were doing ground work. I allowed my opponent to get a full mount, his weight on me, and told him to start throwing punches at my face when he was ready- no other instructions. My first parry caught him perfect, AND I FELT HIS WEIGHT COME OFF ME! That is the key to making this technique work- creating a good angle of disturbance with that first parry so you unweight him. Second parry did not connect as well, BUTT (get it?) the knee did. Results were dramatic! He went over, and the encounter ended with me in a side mount with a head lock. Now, he was NOT primarily a grappler, but he wasn't completely innexperienced either. It is free advice, and like I said (and Shorinryu Sensei confirmed) nothing you guys don't do. I'm just suggesting that kotegashiNeo has the right idea, keep an open mind and try some of this, and maybe use it to trigger some discussion.

I'm almost allways injured! Comes from having an old body and an immature mind (or so I'm told ). That, and even less common sense than the average alligator wrestler! I just joined a TKD class here. I started at white, and now am under the instruction of three black belts who I helped prepare for their black belt test- and two of them are about 30 years my junior! Now, I'd never admit to being ornery or sadistic; but immagine how much fun it is to be a white belt and pick the BB's off the matt and ask (smileing in a less than concerned way) "Are you all right?" Seriousely, no one will think less of you because of a piece of cloth around your waist. Your skills and attitude will speak far louder than your belt.

Talk with the senior instructor. Be open and honest, ask him to do the same. If you want to come back in, acknowlege that you may have lost some skills being out so long. If it were me (thankfully it isn't), I'd tell him I'm willing to follow his wishes and join his class. He may allow your rank, but require you to train and retest when your skills are to standards, then allow you to advance normally. He may test you and rank you according to where he thinks you are. He may start you at white belt and move you up faster than normal due to your past experience. Any of these would be ok with me, if it were me (as long as test fees aren't exorbatant). And a willingness to take a demotion would demonstrate humility and should answer any concerns about your lieing about rank- especially if you can demonstrate your knowlege and skills. As for injuring your arm, I'd think the instructor would understand. He wouldn't stay in buisiness long if his students couldn't earn a living due to injuries.

OK, now that AK's super secret Tip of the Week, courtesy of Larry Tatum, is out... http://www.ltatum.com/TipOfTheWeek.html#Week24 Why should AK have all the fun? Mr. Tatum has said that one reason for these tips is to generate thought, ideas and discussion. SO, let's discuss it. This weeks tip is on Sophisticated Basics, finding hidden moves in basic techniques or forms applications that can enhance their effectiveness. I'm guessing that most styles do this at some point. What are some of your favorites?

"one of the best out there!!" Obviously, depending on the school and the student. But the FMA's overall ar excellent, well rounded, and effective. Arnis is a weapons based art, but their weapons techniques translate well to both empty hand stand up fighting and to grappling. I'm fairly new to Modern Arnis (taught as a second art in the school I just joined). But I've worked out with several FMA guys before and they are tough.

CsrCrz88, I don't teach martial arts, but I have taught in several fields. I'll echo the idea that financial gain is not a good reason to teach, though you should not sell yourself short either. I've allways said that the one attribute that sets the outstandin g instructor apart from the good instructor is this: he/she has an overwhelming desire to give the student the tools to become better than the instructor himself. This attitude puts the subject or discipline first, the student next, and the instructor/business after that. For now, I'd recomend learning your art inside and out. Learn to work it, and and why it works. Also get some leadership and instructor training. Work under as many instructors as you can and watch their style of teaching. Learn what works with instruction and what doesn't, and just like your art be sure to personalize or customize the instruction style to yourself. Get familiar with other arts also, as you'll be answering questions about why you do some things different or how to handle their methods. That you are thinking about this at 15 puts you miles ahead of the average instructor, but only if you make a long term plan and work it. Don't get in a hurry, quality counts more than speed and you have plenty of time. Good luck!

kempocos, no offense taken- I didn't think you were slamming AK. As I understand it, the runs where he was seated and threw the punches were in practice and were not taped. This version was decided on because they have no control who watches this, or what the experience level they have. Safety was one consideration. Again, this is a one minute clip about a tip- not a full grappling seminar. I didn't get that he meant you don't need to practice ground work. Just the opposite, I took it to be a hint to look for, and try out, some ways to move the stand up game to the ground. You won't ever take the Gracies out with this kind of thing. But against the average punk who does not know how to get a proper mount, it might give you a chance. By the way, I don't know about Mr. Tatum's schools, but many AK schools do teach some kind of regular ground fighting classes. It is getting to be more common in all arts, at least around here, and I think it is a good thing. But our local 'ground guru' left the area (one of the drawbacks to living in a small town), so I'm still looking at this kind of application.

Again: His uke did not throw the punch in a committed fashion because he didn't want to get stood on his nose any more. As for Mr. Tatum hitting hard, he allways does from what I've seen. His students volunteer for these spots and for his films. But if you are going to do Kenpo, you're going to get hit a lot harder than that. Like I said earlier, the end phase of learning this kind of thing is to pad up and go hard, seeing what works when and what doesn't. It won't work for every mount and pound situation- but there's only one way you are going to really know which ones it does and that's to do it. For those that don't like this technique, there is still the point that you can find elements of your stand-up game to use on the ground. Concepts, principles, and even moves will transfer. But, you should probably look for them now, before you need them. If you can learn BJJ or something, that would be even better. Failing that, this kind of application is better than laying there and trying to cover. And, if you are into MMA, finding how those concepts and principles work together might improve both your stand up and ground game. I'm not a member of Mr. Tatums organization, and they have a few different ideas to what I've been taught. But I do have a lot of respect for the man, so I usually at least try to get his point when he says something.

True, this is not a practical attack, with him kneeling over you. But remember a couple of things. First, this is just a tip to get stand up artists thinking about the ground and some applications. It is in what we'd call the 'Ideal Phase', an easily defended attack scenario where you practice and learn the skills. American Kenpo then moves to progressively harder versions of the same attack, i.e. he's sitting with his weight on you, punching from closer in and with more commitment. It is also important for the dummy to get an idea what is comeing and how to handle it. Here's a statement from the guy who dummied for Mr. Tatum (taken from a Kenpo discussion): "When we had practiced it before the taping I was indeed seated on his chest and with my knees on the mat. I nearly injured my self when I committed to the right punch and had his right knee in conjunction with his parry throw me nearly 15 feet. Let me tell you that even with me on his abdomen and actually trying to strike his face I was thrown. He was borrowing the force of my committed strike and momentum to toss me off him like a rag doll. We switched it up a bit so that it was safer for me to dummy." Even in the 'more realistic' position the dummies heels weren't hooked, and the arms did extend. His seat was apparently not as secure as it could have been (note the terms 'abdomen' and 'chest' were used interchangeably). Not how a grappler would do it, true. But this is not a grappling seminar, just a <1 min. tip on a possible defense to a common street attack. Like I said, if a trained grappler gets you there, you are in trouble. But the average street punk might break his seat to try to get more power in his punch, he might also overextend his arm when he strikes, or do any number of things that give you an opening. This example was just to get you thinking what you might do to defend from the ground. For example, the grapplers say 'an extended arm is a broken arm.' Could some of your elbow breaks work if you are mounted and he extends a grab or strike? The grapplers have better escapes for this situation. Even a basic familiarization with shrimping could help to destabilize his seat. But unless someone wants to study grappling (which is not a bad idea to suppliment training), looking for ways to turn the standup game on it's side can give you a chance against the untrained. As a BJJer, I'd wager you'd agree that the wrong time to think about this for the first time is when the punches start to rain down on your head. And I've been mounted and pounded by grapplers. I doubt I could pull this off with them (certainly didn't then ). But I have used 'stand up' techniques against them on the ground, with varrying degrees of success. Grapplers do tend to change your perspective, I gotta give you that!