delta1

Different Romanized spelling. Also spelled Ving Tsun.

American Kenpo's techniques are like 'mini-katas', a serries of moves in response to an attack. I've surprised myself a few times when something unexpected happened and the counter was just there- not necessarily the exact technique, but the moves were there to counter the attack. It's a pretty good feeling to discover you are actually 'getting it'. Sorry if I got a little off on a tangent, but the feeling is the same; when the moves just become part of you and start to flow. Your post is one of the best arguments I've seen to counter those who think kata is worthless. However it is done, it's the heart of a system. Other styles I've studied use forms as the primary training vehicle to put moves together. While I wouldn't say any of them impacted me as dramatically as you were, I think I've learned a lot from each of them. As soon as I start to learn a new form, I start dissecting it for applications and principles, as well as try to get the feel of the movements. So it's usually a more gradual learning process for me.

That is probably the most important part of triangulation, or working angles- whatever you want to call it. If you can't do what you describe first, you can't do any of the rest of the things Treebranch an me were talking about. Good point.

Anything I can, whenever and wherever I can get it. The two finger takedown was shown me by an Aikidoka, working out in my back yard. I was first introduced to internal triangulation points by Anise Sensei, who heads an Aiki-Jutsu organization, at a seminar. I've since worked with other stylists in different arts on it. The unballancing technique I alluded to is used by some Japanese practicioners as a feint- they point sharply to your center of gravity (tan tien), then a quick strike and over you go. I believe it is called 'cutting the center'. Anise Sensei could do this fairly reliably with a quick down-up-down motion and topple you without ever touching you. American Kenpo and Arnis both work angles a lot. But if you import some ideas from other arts it gives you more to play with. I often find that some things I learn outside are in AK 'at higher levels'. But I like to discover and work with things on my own. It's part of what makes the art 'alive' to me. Even at lower levels, AK uses that 45' downward or upward (complimentary angle) strike to either anchor or put him down, or to uproot him and disrupt his base. But adding the internal application makes it even more interesting and effective. In the end, it's all just seriouse fun!

Well, I'm glad that you are all grown up and all, but you should learn not to make assumptions. Let me explain: When you learn, say, a back fist, you first point the elbow and then strike. As you progress, it all comes up and whips out without the intermediate step of pointing. But the elbow still travels out and up as the fist whips out because you've learned the principle. More than that, you can later put it together that you can launch a wicked backfist off an elbow strike. Same with the knee pointing a kick. In reality the knee comes up and out, but not to full high chamber to telegraph your strike. But still the cocking action is there. And, you can deduce that a knee strike is a good close in substitute for a full kick. As for its being for the kiddies, I disagree. No matter how far you go, or how much you grow up, you should still come back to basics. I've already told you how. Go back and read again. You mean, like "front slicing kicks"? While I respect the Okinawan styles, they are not the be all and end all in martial arts. And they don't teach you to let your ego get the best of you, at least not as far as I know any how. Thanks for setting us all, and me in particular, straight. But when you kick and he moves, your well conditioned toe could easily be dislocated or broken. Also, all that 'conditioning' may be fine now. But when you really grow up (get older) and get arthritus in those abused joints I bet you sing a different tune. But, to each his own. You can point your toes, I'll curl mine, and we'll both be happy.

I hurt just thinking about it! But it's true enough that some people can do things like that and it never seems to effect them. Others can't do that kind of thing no matter how much they stretch or how hard they try. Still others get hip replacements.

One of the organizations I belong to just split. The head of the old org was a well known and respected martial artist. But the instructors did not think they were getting much back for their, and their students, affiliation. So they split off, with the idea that they would return more in the way of school and instructor support, information and affordable, quality seminars for everyone. It has been an emense success. Almost immediately they were coast to coast as well as international. And I've heard no one complain. So, if enough school owners and instructors believe as you do, you might look into forming your own organization- providing, of course, you can find someone qualified to head it who shares your goals. Note: I didn't name the organization(s) involved, or any names, because I don't want to get into specific politics. My point is simply that this is an option that has worked for others.

Seems to me you'll pay a heavy price in joint wear for a kick with limmited uses practicing enough to get and stay profficient with this kick. Not to mention the othr injuries you could sustain in just trying it. But, I suppose, if it's worth the risk to you then go for it. Who knows, if nothing else it might get you on a magazine cover someday.

Taping yourself is a good way to help correct any of your martial arts activities. I especially like to have contact sparing taped- it helps me see why I keep getting hit! There are three viewpoints to any fight: yours, your opponents, and the third party/bystanders. With a camera, you get to view the fight from two perspectives. And if you and your opponent watch it together and critique it, you get the bennifit of all three viewpoints firsthand! What more could you ask for in a learning tool?

I'd go with Tiaji (Tai Chi), but as drunken monkey pointed out, stay away from the shui jao and jin-na (locks and throws) applications. Taiji is a much more relaxed and gentler on the body type art, even when done as a martial art and not just a healthy dance. It may even improve your piano playing. Any hard art (and TKD is one of the hardest) carries the probability of injury, and the hands are one of the highest risks. Blocks, strikes, and other maneuvers done with the hands put them constantly in harms way. Even if you don't sprain or break anything, you will be doing drills that I guarantee will leave your hands and forearms sore, bruised and acheing. Doesn't sound like a good way to go do a piano performance. I don't mean to put you off here. I love the martial arts, and I hated every minute of piano practice with a passion. I've worked out with dozens of styles of martial arts, but I'll listen to very little music. But I have to tell you that the reality is you need those hands for your living, and any of the hard/external arts will probably compromise your ability to use them as a professional pianist. Taiji would not only not harm your hands, but if you love music I think you'll really appreciate the deapth, harmony, and the intricacies of Taiji. (Don't ask why I like it. My Taiji class all think I'm a little off- they constantly ask what I'm doing there. I like the passive, yielding concept, but only because it puts my opponent in a position where I can do something really ugly to him. ) Hope this helps. Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

I hate you people that can kick like that!!! That looks like an inverted roundhouse kick, only higher. A few years ago I ripped my hamstring from knee to butt throwing that kick to someones solar plexus. I can't immagine trying it to the head. I've only known a couple of people who could do that, both TKDers.

The ball, heel, knife edge, instep, or shin. Even with shoes on, curling your toes as much as possible helps protect them and strengthens the foot. Without shoes it is essential to hit with the ball to avoid injury. Instep is good for groin shots, or if closer the shin works. The outside/knife edge can be use for front slicing kicks. The heel works well for lower abdomen shots. I would not advise useing the sole of the foot or the toes unless you are fond of limping a lot. Your soles are sensative, a lot of nerves there, and protected only by the fact that they are usually kept on the floor. As for toes, they will break easier than anything you are likely to kick with them. Even in tournaments (the few I've been to anyhow) a lot of judges won't give a point if they see you kicking with straight toes. And they are right, in my ever so humble opinion. Oh yeah, the first part of a front kick is an upward knee strike. Can't forget the knee!

Yes, USMC, but a long time before their current MA program. Most military training focuses on firearms and bayonet, and squad tactics. A lot of things like sentry removal and improvised weapons (helmet, e-tool, etc.), and explosive devises. Military h2h tends to be brutal, devastating. The intent is to quickly destroy an enemy before you are destroyed. It generally bears little resemblance to what you learn in the dojo, even though most ma's were originally for combat.

Played around with your problem a little before class last night. Another way to apply a joint lock is to pass his weapon, either out or in, then bring it back. It seems to disorient him enough that you could get a lock off of it. Fun to play with in class, but on the street, I think the only way I'd want to try it is after I hit him in the head with a brick.

KSN Doug, yes, it's similar. Hold your hand in front of your face edge on so you are looking at your thumb. Now, relax and let the hand drop at the wrist. Bring your fingers together, thumb tip to tip or index finger, and keep that natural curl you had when your hand droped. That's the basic shape, though it shoud be modified for the application and to suit the user. It can be used to trap, pull, parry, check, or even as a weapon. In this application it would be used for a frictional pull. The edge of the hand rakes forcefully along his arm, keeping it momentarily extended. Done sharply and with force, it will also effect his ballance- not dramatically, but enough to give you a brief moment to act. I like to use it with a simultaneouse strike, the pull comeing towards me, gets him coming forward right into the strike. Also, like someone else here pointed out (possibly you), this is not a stand alone action; you combine it with proper footwork and either set it up or use it when he gives it to you.

Most sparing sessions in most schools don't lend themselves to joint lock applications. Typically you are just playing tag, and even if you do grappling the attacks are going to be too hard, fast and direct. Joint locks work best after you've established contact and after you've hurt or distracted him. Difficult to apply, easy to counter, and if you do them wrong they don't work (that was deep, huh). Unless your style majors in joint locks, I wouldn't focus on them as much as your basics. Heck, even a simple grab isn't that dependable in a sparing match, let alone a lock. However, if you really want to do locks, try learning to use a crane hand as a frictional pull to take his ballance and extend his arm. Coupled with a simultaneouse strike, this is very effectve and dependable, easy to apply onceyou get the hang of it. Try your locks off this move, but you'd better be quick, and still I'd say good luck doing it consistantly. Personally, I'd prefer to roll into an arm bar or, better yet, just hit him again.

monkeygirl, sounds like that school was destined to loose its senior belts. One option in a situation like that is to get together as a group and work out on your own. At least you aren't paying for the privilage of teaching someone elses class. The group could then obtain private instruction and share the cost of class and travel. Get your moves cleaned up to your present level, then start working on advanced material. Once a month, shared by three or four people, shouldn't be more expensive than your present class, even if you have to travel a ways for instruction. And of course, working out in your own group is free in between classes. I've done this (I wasn't on a belt system, just advancing my art), and if you take your time and find the right instructor, it is a good way to learn. The other thing you have to do is keep your group more or less closed. There are a lot of people who, without that structured class atmosphere, will not work dilligently and waste everyones time. Keep it by invitation only, and even then it's work or walk. Another advantage to this is you can bring in outside skills that interest you, like ground work or manipulation, that your school might not have taught. Go to seminars as a group and then work on what you learned. Develope a rapport with other schools, maybe even other styles, and work out with them from time to time. Expand your horizons. Sky's the limmit when you are not just someones cash cow.

He's wrong. That principle was taken from the Chinese, who call that a soft-hard application. Shotokan is primarily a hard art, relying mostly on muscular force and proper allignment for its power. But when you start to relax your moves, then tighten ALL your muscles as the strike lands, you are moving into the soft-hard arts. Many styles today use the soft hard method, and a lot of them use it more than Shotokan- especially the Okinawan 'karate' styles. So, unless you can point to something specific that Shotokan does that no one else does, I have to disagree with him. And even if there is, the concept was there long before Shotokan came on the scene.

I saw this posted on an American Kenpo site a while back. General consensus there, "Sounds about right!"

You've got to be joking, right? Bonds cars allways top the ugly fiberglass monstrosity with fake rocket flames that the aero-rodent drives! Can you immagine going on a date in the bat-wheels? No back seat, to start with. But Bond allways seems to fit a full suite into his, complete with bar, and the car has auto pilot. No wonder BM (cool initials) just drives around with Wrobn while JB gets the girls! I'll take double 0 status any day over double ugly!

Everyones path is different. Some want to round out their skills with other arts, others want to go for higher levels of understanding in their present art. Still others think that with the black belt, they've arrived. I like the approach of some schools that don't give tans/degrees/stripes on the black belt until you've commitedd to staying in the art. You still have your black belt, but it is really just a darker colored belt if you decide to leave. You still have the authority and respect due a black belt in their system, but not the same as someone who stayed with the system.

It's not. Like anything else, it is what you make it. But a lot of people do think of it as a sport because they are ignorant. They havn't been exposed to it as a martial art. TKD does make an excellent art for sports where you are judged because it has good clean strikes and kicks, thrown mostly from ranges where they are easily seen by the judges. A lot of TKD schools teach it as a sport. It is also the national sport of Korea. TKD is also very popular. With popularity, unfortunately, comes a lot of mediocrity. There are too many schools out there teaching an inneffective form of the art, so it gets a reputation as only good for sports. But there are schools, like the one I joined, that teach it as a combative art. There are some good in close techniques in TKD. There are takedowns, and there is a trend to introduce grappling and manipulation skills into the classes. We do, and also Modern Arnis for weapons and to give a sense of flow to a sytyle that is known for being extremely hard and static.

That quote was a product of the times. At that time the Chinese were starting to worry that the latest paranoid government (the super paranoid communists), with a little help from the Qing Dynasty (1600's to early 1900's), had all but destroyed their martial arts. They were forbidden to be taught except as purely an art form. The Japanese had done the same thing, but they weren't as worried about it. The incursions of Western armies into the Orient, using firearms to decimate opposing armies, also caused these traditionally closed societies to re-evaluate their fighting methods. Fewer people had the time, resources, or inclination to truely study the martial arts as a desciple of a master. By the 1970's, almost all the real Masters were either killed, died of natural causes, exiled, driven underground, or just languishing for lack of dedicated students. It was these conditions combined with the social and political upheavel of WWII that convinced many masters to share their knowlege with the West. It was either that, or see the arts die. Unfortunately, with Western practicioners came Western attitudes. We love sports of all kinds. We also love instant gratification. And we are independant minded capitalists- produce a product or service that sells or go hungry. Had martial arts not caught on as a sport here, they would have been almost wiped out. There were still some who studied the arts as a combative science (Western thought, again) and an art of personal developement and self defense. But it was the sport and health crowd, the socializers and entertainment industry, that paid the bills as well as popularizing the arts. For that matter, I bet most school owners here will tell you that it is the curiouse, those who never get much past yellow belt, who pay most of the bills. By the 1970's, interest had peaked here, and many were looking for something deeper or more effective. A lot of things were being questioned. In fact, the prevalent attitudes of the times was to throw out everything in every aspect of life and society and start over, though many were starting to get burnt out and question their attitudes as well. Most of us were starting to look for some synthesis between old and new. We wanted something that worked. The trend today is to look for the deeper meaning and more efficient application of the martial arts. Some combine arts to try to recapture the effectiveness as a combat system. Some go the simple route, reality training. All these are good. The old Chinese practitioners thought a style shoul include striking, manipulation, grappling, as well as psychological and healing components. The Japanese had a tendency to break these components into seperate arts, but not allways. We inhereted more of the Japanese method here. But I like the modern aproach of recombining arts to bring these components back under a cohesive style. At the same time, I don't look down on those who practice for different reasons. I do get a little torqued when they try to impose their reasons on me, but if others want to look down on what I do I just figure it shows their lack of understanding of history and their narrow minded aproach to life and the arts. I'd say that all types of arts and practitioners are necessary. Not just because of the varried interests and needs, but for the survival and propogation of the arts as a whole.

Dr. Yang in subsequent chapters gives a brief history of Chinese martial arts. Most of us probably know that they were originally developed and used to defend monks from bandits. This implies a strong moral component to their usage. So now, the question: how do you use martial skills (physical/combative, mental and psychological) to stop fighting? Fights, whether two individuals slugging it out or nations at war, end when one side looses the means or the will to keep fighting. This means fighting, and possibly hurting or destroying an opponent. But moraly, it would also mean showing mercy to a defeated enemy, and doing no more harm than is necessary. You show him you have the ability and the will to hurt him, but when he stops fighting or is too injured to go on you stop. There are martial artists who will tell you that the only reason for studying is personal developement. Others say it is only fighting, and should be brutal and effective- simply destroy the enemy. I think it is both. Develope the ability to destroy, but also develope the morality to show restraint, and develope the common sense and judgement to know when to apply which action. Just venting a little, this all seems self evident to me. But you hear it all the time- 'just run away', 'martial arts mean you don't fight', 'exercise and health', ' if he messes with me, he deserves to die', 'kill em all, let God sort em out'... . Where's the ballance? I think the combinations of traditional martial arts and modern combatives are both effective and useful. But the tendency of some to focus only on the spiritual and others only on the fighting skills is, in my opinion, to destroy the art. These attitudes reduce us to the level of animals, a predator/prey relationship where there is no compassion, no restraint. One runs, and if caught he is treated mercilessly- he has all the 'higher consciousness' of a rabbit. The other reacts to any percieved threat and harms without thinking. The true martial artist can and does adjust the level of response to the threat. He avoids when possible, fights when adviseable, and harms when necessary. There's my opinion, the result of too much down time. I start reading and thinking, which is a dangerouse thing, so I come here for a reality check.

Ditto that!