Taikudo-ka

JKD was Bruce Lee's personal expression of the martial arts. It did grow out of his classical Wing Chun training, but he changed things around as he chose, and cross-trained to add moves from arts as diverse as boxing and western fencing. Bruce died so young and suddenly that his system was by no means complete or perfected. It was still a work in progress, which he knew very well himself. That was the whole point - never stop learning, always adapt to new ideas and concepts. The paradox is that it's not possible to teach "genuine" JKD because Bruce changed what he taught all the time, and the heart of JKD seems to be the idea of "no specific style or system"... So if you systemize Bruce's methods and moves and turn them into a "style", it's not JKD anymore, but the very "classical mess" Bruce was fighting against... If you don't, what you get is a philosophy, rather than a fighting system. Then you still need to learn the "basics" in another art, before you can apply JKD "concepts". For Bruce this was Wing Chun, and a very fine art it is too. But in my understanding, JKD is not limited in any way to only building on Wing Chun. If this is confusing, you know why Bruce said that once you've read his JKD writings, they're only good for wiping up mess.

I thought about this a bit, then realized I just couldn't do it. Not sure if its really possible to have the "ultimate" art. A good once, but nothing is perfect. There has already been an attempt to create the "ultimate" martial art, by combining the best of everything. It was done by General Choi and is called Tae Kwon Do. If you disagree with the General's interpretation, well, then you see how difficult a task this really is... The only art that's ever really made this claim inherently is Tai Chi Chuan - good ol' "Grand Ultimate Fist"

It comes from the Japanese word "Bujutsu", where "Bu" refers to things military, and "jutsu" refers to arts, techniques, sciences or even 'tricks' depending on context. Hence - Martial Arts in English. I've seen "modern" guys call their stuff "combat science" but you can see that they are still referring to "bujutsu". The same word in Chinese is "Wu Shu". Of course, seeing as many study a modern "budo", shouldn't we technically call it "the martial way"?

Hey Bon, good on you. The thought, of course, is important, not the external form. Anyway, at my dojo (Japanese Karate), we do the following: - Bow (to Sensei) on entering and leaving. - Line up (being Australia, trying to get us to actually line up in rank is probably futile...) - Seiza and mokosu (seated meditation) - 'Onegaishimasu' (seated half bow and asking 'please teach me') - Bow before and after sparring each opponent. (I try to make my bow even more respectful if I've just hit my opponent in the head a few times.) - Line up again at end of class. Standing bow to instructor at finish of lesson. Hmm, it actually sounds more ritualistic written out than it is in practise...

I think its a gradual thing... you don't realize until some time after that you're not "thinking" about it so much, just doing. Happened to me with music. But then you're never "fully" there - some things I can play easily, some I would need to think, some stuff is just too intricate and advanced, like soloing of fast chord progressions with constant key changes. I'd say the same with karate. I mean, the basic punch could already be second nature, but a spinning axe kick? "Where your natuarl fighting reactions is to get into your stance and be ready to fight " Hehe I thought the real expert just walked up and hit you? Stances were just for beginners like me... "I've never used a special stance" - Musashi, The Five Rings. According to Musashi, "second nature" is where you just walk up to your opponent like you're walking down the street, then cut his head off in one smooth movement. Perhaps for mere mortals, it is best to just try to attain the level G95 talks about - acting and reacting without having to consciously "plan" the moves.

Yes, Sanchin is a kata. Some people have described the "Valsalva effect" as possibly occuring during Sanchin breathing exercises, particularly if done incorrectly. I know the kata involves breathing and isometric tension exercises, but not being a goju practitioner, I couldn't tell you the details, sorry.

C'mon Don, everyone knows you should hold a gun sideways, don't bother aiming, and that recoil only affects little old ladies... Sword fights are even worse. It all looks good until you realize that they are obviously just whacking at each others swords. How many movies have you seen where the hero blocks a blow holding the sword rigid with the sharp edge out, clashing with the opponents blade. Great way to ruin your blade... not good for much else. But Don has a point. Movies are all fake anyway. Why do we expect each martial action hero to be a "real" master? What other actor, apart from the "martial arts hero" is actually expected to be as good (if not better) off screen than on? Yet no-one cares that Pamela Anderson couldn't even complete the fitness requirement to be a surf lifeguard, let alone really save a drowning swimmer. (well, perhaps as a plastic life-raft )

We also have something called "shoot karate" which is like the shadow boxing you describe. Perhaps you could call it "freestyle kata", but you're expected to go hard with any moves you want, rather than a prearranged kata. "Karate" refers to a huge range of styles, some of which, like kyokushin do fight full contact. Some, like Shotokan, don't. So exactly who's "traditions" are you breaking? The whole history of karate reads as one big list of people "breaking" tradition to do things differently, introduce new methods, new techniques, discard things they didn't understand, etc. That's why there are so many different schools, most originating only last century (20th). A lot of "useless" moves are just moves that aren't understood. A useless move is just one you can't see a use for. But perhaps someone else can. I saw a video where an Isshin master explained the "uselessness" of a certain wide block, and why it was dropped from their system. The same wide block I have seen used successfully to block round-house kicks and other curving attacks. I like to play a game called "what is the nastiest thing I could possibly do with this move?". I do agree that sparring hard with a good partner is the best way to learn. However, I would never make it 100% of training. Tao of JKD is good, but at the end of the day it is really just Bruce's personal note book. It was never meant to be published in the form it was, because it was so far from completion. I suspect that despite all the objective reasons people are posting about kata, most of it comes down to personal like/dislike. Some people seem to take a disliking to anything "kata", and thus are sure kata is useless. Others, such as myself, enjoy kata, and are thus sure it is a useful educational tool and source of information. Each to his own.

I wanted to buy one of these. Only problem is that they're even more expensive than a hanging bag and seperate stand. (Which is also 4x the price of a bag alone) I'm gonna make my own wooden free-standing makiwara instead.

Ants...

I'm not saying you NEED all of these - just trying to brainstorm and come up with interesting stuff. - Martial Arts History This would involve discussions on history of various arts, where they came from, historical but largely extinct styles, lineages, relationship between arts as you look back in history, etc. - Western Martial Arts (traditional) A forum for discussion of traditional western martial arts, both armed and unarmed. It wouldn't be for "modern" sport arts like fencing or boxing, but attempts to revive authentic medieval/rennaisance sword fighting, say. Plus things like old style bare knuckle boxing, savate, catch-as-can wrestling, or medieval unarmed combat. (Not rennaisance fairs or historical 'reinactment', though, as that is entertainment, not martial arts.) - Cross Training/mixed styles A forum for questions on mixing arts, where the specific forum might not be clear. Ideas on which arts go well together, which arts have already "borrowed" techniques, and from where, etc. - Indian Martial Arts Martial arts originating from India, such as Gatka, Kalari Payatt, Thang-Ta and Silambam. - Equipment, eg different training devices, plans for making stuff. Just what it sounds like. Possibly covered under "training" already. - Budo/Bujutsu Philosophy A forum for discussion of budo philosophy and ideas, not related to one specific art. Ideas and princples behind all martial arts, warrior "mind", etc.

I've come across a bit of controversy about Goju on the web. Some people suggest it is unhealthy, mainly due to the practise of Sanchin, which some are accusing of doing more harm than good. Accusations leveled against Goju include: * Sanchin damages your cardiovascular and pulmonary system, long term. * Sanchin could trigger a heart attack * Sanchin makes you fat, with a big gut. * Sanchin could make you pass out. * Goju practitioners do not live as long, on average. All of which concerned me, because previously I was quite interested in the Goju style... I've also heard that these problems can relate to "improperly practised" Sanchin. But how would you know, if the whole school was doing it wrong, until you keel over? Are these just rumors spread by Shorin and Shi-To practitioners to disadvantage the "competition"? Or is there something behind any of them? Any thin waisted, big chested 80 year old Goju practitioners care to comment?

I'd really be interested in doing some Shorin-Ryu, but schools are rare... The controversy over Sanchin makes me hesitant to do Goju. Certainly high temperature, low oxygen environments (eg overcrowded, stuffy, unventilated rooms) can make me hyperventilate and possibly pass out. It's happened once or twice to me. Hearing about a guy keeling over 5 steps into Sanchin doesn't enhance my confidence to do it.

I think most martial arts are too commercialized. Certainly TKD, karate, kung-fu, judo, and the like have become much more commercialized than the Gracie's Jujutsu. All martial arts seem to be moving in the direction of sports competition, Olympics, and gross commercialization of every aspect. None of which really interest me all that much. I'm trying to make my practise more "traditional" and more self-defense focused, which I'll continue to do no matter what.

I heard that Kano himself didn't want them calling it Judo. Judo also came out of Jujutsu. I guess he thought they were taking it "back" to a "jutsu" style with what they were doing, rather than following a "modern" budo path. Plus he didn't want anyone else calling their own style "judo", unless they were part of his organization and practised the "official" style. Hence the Gracie's had no choice but to call it BJJ. But perhaps that's all part of it, as you say. Certainly the success of BJJ must have rubbed off on "traditional" ju-jutsu schools a bit - just by virtue of the name association.

Eh? "Tyson" is an uncommon martial art?

I like the strategy/battle tactics forum idea as well. What about a "my art vs your" forum? Just to keep it all out of the others Some other ideas: - Martial Arts History - Western Martial Arts (traditional) - Cross Training/mixed styles - Indian Martial Arts - Equipment, eg different training devices, plans for making stuff. - Budo/Bujutsu Philosophy - Classifieds - gear/equipment for sale

http://www.abcisp.net/~gmattson/video/other.html http://home.earthlink.net/~scotttd/takingcharge/videos.html http://whitecollarboxing.com/Fights.htm All I could find at short notice. Anyone else. I'd like to see some more style vs style stuff - not sure what some of the guys in the above clips are using. [ This Message was edited by: Taikudo-ka on 2002-07-08 16:58 ]

Has anyone ever successfully used some of the "stranger" guards I've seen demonstrated in karate, or do you just adopt a basic "boxing" guard when sparring? How about the "Bruce Lee" style low hand guard? I found if I kept hands low like that in sparring I just get clobbered in the head... Am I just not good enough?

Taikudo Taikudo is a Japanese style of karate, developed by Grand Master Hideo Kosone. After studying various Japanese martial arts including karate, judo and jujitsu, he incorporated points from each art to create Taikudo Karate. Taikudo features its own set of kata, but is not kata heavy, requiring around 6 for shodan rank. Kata one is called Ten Ni No, but bears no relation to Funakoshi's Ten No.

Cool, but doesn't this belong in humor?

Right on Smiley Man from Pakistan. "as soon as you stick rigidly to rules (for no real reson) you limit you fighting ability" What rules? I havn't been training to any rules... someone better report me Non or semi contact free sparring is just one tool to help teach fighting. It's not the be all and end all purpose of karate. Competition is a game, not the aim. If you don't wanna play tag, well, how about Kyokushin full contact kumite? As for kata, well, for all those "kata-less" arts, what do you do if you want to practise, have no partner, and no equipment around to hit? Shadow-box? Hmmm... doesn't sound like a "killer" alternative to kata to me? Apart from punching stuff (heavy bags, speed ball, partner held targets) and sparring with protective equipment, what is the "magic" training that makes all these boxers and muay thai fighters so tough? Is it just plain hard work and natural aggression on the part of the participants?

Well this turned into quite an interesting thread. Thanks again. I've tried to use the closed fist blocks as taught during sparring, and they work just as well once I got the hang of it. The closed-fisters I've found can often lead into strikes in one movement. This is a "true parry" I think - I read about old sword fighting techniques and found that the "block" was always a sweeping parry which chambered the arm for the return strike in one motion. Open handed "blocks" are presented to us as a way to, say, grab and rip down an opponents guard before striking. Hehe I like this stuff.

Don, at least with the guns you have semi-scientific methods of measuring their effectiveness. Plus, once the trigger is pulled, all guns of the same model should deliver similar results, right? Welcome to the wacky world of martial arts, where none of the above apply, there's no absolute way to verify the "best" art, and results vary from individual to individual. If martial arts were medicine, the BOX would need a label "WARNING: PERSONAL RESULTS EXPERIENCED MAY DIFFER FROM THOSE DESCRIBED ON THE PACK". Hehe it's just like the gun boards you know and love, only much more subjective and rife with personal experience

- "And about the sport thing...think fer a minute, if one can use kicks to devastating effect against other highly skilled "foot fighters" why in the name of all thats still good, would you not be able to do it against an untrained "thug"?????" Well, in theory, you should be able to, and if said thug is not too alert then he'd better watch out. However, what I have learnt from sparring is that a person who is fast and good with their hands can make things very difficult for "foot fighters". Why? Because the kick must travel so far, while the blocking/grabbing arm only has to move a foot, max. For every ten kicks to my head, one gets through and hurts like hell, but the other nine get grabbed and held like a vice. In sparring I'll probably let you go after a few jabs, but if it was "real" expect to hit the ground hard and get pummeled to the max. 9 - 1... I can live with those odds. Another thing is that kicking too high leaves your groin horribly exposed to counter-attacks. No problem in tournaments as you can't generally attack the groin (!), but on the street - another matter. Not to say kicks are useless - they're not. But it's a matter of strategy and timing, like all things in a fight. Consider your opponents defenses. Attack the weak points. Use the appropriate technique. Best places to kick: - groin - stomach - knees - shins Though I don't mind a roundhouse to the floating rib either. Anything higher is asking for trouble, in my opinion. [ This Message was edited by: Taikudo-ka on 2002-07-08 08:02 ]