Traditional-Fist

NO it is not! It depends on the situation and how the opponent is protecting his throat. That may depend on the person defending, and of course on the person who is doing the hitting. A. In Wing Chun (in most if not all major kung fu styles) you do not strike an opponent unless you have at least some kind a control on him. And B. There IS (as you know by now, through discussions in other threads), grappling in Wing Chun and most major kung fu styles. Good, then lets take away the prize money and other financial contracts and see how many people would participate in events and for HOW LONG. And that may have something to do with the attitude of many of those are who ARE competitors in such events. I don't, and that is because I have had the privilege of studying under kung fu sifus who can do that. REAL kung fu sifus. Yes they can prove it. He can show you the power of his claw on another part of your body, without actually tearing any of your muscles. In the old days some masters use to tear of tree barks with their claws as practise. You don't have to shoot someone dead to know if a new type of bullet is effective or not. Add to that a more power and a lot more technique and of course Chi and then you have something approaching a Tiger Claw tear.

I would also like to add that "hitting the throat" is sometimes a too vague a way to describe a potentially technique. A punch to the throat can be different to a chop to the throat, which is far more dangerous and it is practised in traditional chinese martial arts as well as in okinawan/japanese karate as a killing blow and not as means to medal, fame, money etc. Also a Tiger grab to the throat where wind pipe is literally ripped off is not likely to be in the UFC rules. Not that any of the so called "kung fu experts" who have fought in the NHB tournaments were even close to having such skills.

Not if the swift hook is blocked and the kung fu exponent moves into the central line at the same time and delivers the throat strike. A preliminary strike can also expose the throat to a secondary finisher technique. Lets say a punch to the nose or a jab/punch to the eyes followed by the throat strike. The effect of such blows are more than enough to create exposure to the throat as well as other parts of the body. When the old kung fu masters put together the kung fu techniques and their concepts, they weren't assuming that any potential exponent would just stand there and let the kung fu exponent strike their sensitive areas at will. There is a logic and methodology involved in kung fu.

Yes, but there is something in this. There are schools of Wing Chun that use one type of punch, that is the central line vertical punch. There are schools that use very small amount of kicks. Other schools do not delve into Chi Kung exercises (a fundemental part of any major kung fu practise). On the other hand there are Wing Chun schools/lineages that have a great variety of punches, kicks, grappling (both stand-up and on the ground) and chi kung. Obviously some things are missing from some lineages, but WHY? All I am saying that this is an area that requires further research. Traditional-Fist

You are right. The WC history has more holes than swiss cheese, at least when it comes to its origins. The important part of the story is the effectiveness of this art. Traditional-Fist

Northern Mantis is a High Level Shaolin art and was developed by Shaolin Monks.

That is the philosophy of the traditional Wing Chun style/school that I practise as it is in the current kung fu school of which I am a member. In kung fu, this has got to do with sensitivity and calmness where ones' "listening" abilities allow one to sense and attack and react immediately getting there first. This skill takes a long time to develope, but as far as kung fu is concerned, no one said it would be easy (or quick for that matter). Having said this, in a scenario when one is in danger of being attacked by multiple opponenents or is facing a particularly large and powerful attacker or someone who may be armed, then of course in my opinion it would be best to strike first. Traditional-Fist

why do kung fu people never attack? or why does no one ever film a kung fu guy making an attack? every video i see they just stand there and get hit. I did not view this video, but if it is one that has been on before, against the kyokushin guys, they sparred according to kyokushin rules, with no hands to the head. That kind of takes away the straight blast advantage that many Kung-fu styles like to use. Just a thought. Furthermore, the way the Kyokushin guys sparred did not do justice to this great karate style. They might as well have been TKD guys as they seemed to be only using kicks. At one stage in one of the bouts the kung fu fighter grabs the karate-kai's leg at lets go apologetically [obviously no leg grabs were allowed either]. The last kung fu stylist to fight, and who was looking rather good but was only allowed a very short time to do his thing (the bout was mysteriously called to a halt), or at least it seemed that way. The whole thing looked like a set up in favour of Kyokushin or at best an exhibition. It did not do kung fu any justice as it was not meant to. Ironically it did not, in my eyes, do any justice to the fine art of Kyokushinkai either.

And of course the term "good teacher/sifu" should not only refer to a person who has a gifted ability to pass his knowledge to others, but also to a person who HAS the COMPLETE and AUTHENTIC knowledge of his art in his possession, in the first place.

Although that statement may hold true for karate styles such as Shotokan, even though even this style has movements that are "chinese looking", styles such as Goju-Ryu and Uechi-Ryu seem to hold closer links to their chinese heritage. Having said this, you are correct in implying that they are far removed from authentic kung fu. I believe calling karate Okinawan is quite valid as long as one mentions the chinese influence during its development. Calling Shotokan japanese is also valid as long as one mentions Okinawa and therefore China and yet not appear to be saying that Shotokan is another kung fu style. We must not forger that karate or Te had existed in okinawa before the Chinese influence. I know that many kung fu masters regard karate as having chinese roots/influence but they would rather eat live snakes then say that it is another kung fu style. I even read in a book about kung fu that a kung fu master, in Taiwan I believe, referred to karate as "Shaolin boxing for children" or something to that effect. Many kung fu masters do not see karate as an evolution of kung fu but the reverse. I will reserve my judgment until I become a kung fu master

Yes, there is a whole lot more to Wing Chun than just chain punching. There are other types of punches, kicks and even ground fighting that although not common to all Wing Chun schools/lineages, do exist and are studied by martial artists lucky enough to be training in lineages that have maintained most if not all of the art's essence and richness. I have not even mentioned the internal/softness training that is also part and parcel of authentic Wing Chun.

I hope that no one tries to prove it on me

It does stand for death touch but be warned that if any one says they teach it then they are most probably fakes. Traditionally these skills are not advertised e.g. "come and learn the death touch in two months in my school of ....." Or "I know the death touch and teach it in my school", etc.etc.

Welcome. I look forward to hearing about the your kung fu practise .

My advice to you is not to attempt to learn Wing Chun from books or videos. It is hard enough when one does have a good WC school to go to. That is not to say that books and videos are not useful for someone who is already recieving expert tuition. You should look at media as supplementary aids and not as substitute to tuition. If you can't find a Wing Chun school that is near to you then why not look for another authentic kung fu style. Once you practise one style of kung fu it will make it easier for you to, in the future, practise another style - in your case Wing Chun - once the opportunity arises. Good Luck.

What we are looking at here is a kickboxer who is afraid of the Wing Chun practitioner, and we see a WC man who is making Wing Chun work for him without bouncing around and using 10 thousand techniques that do not belong to Wing Chun. Wether the kickboxer's fear is because he is not well trained in what he does or wether because he is, but he happens to be outclassed by the kung fu guy, I will not discuss. However, I believe that he would not have been so hesitant if he was facing a fellow kick boxer.

My advice to the "highly skilled kicking specialist" is to go and kick himself. My advice to you is to ignore the ignorantes and concentrate on your path. Don't let small comments from small people ruin your day.

Sorry, I may have gotten carried away a little in the heat of the discussion. Any breach of the user guidlines was not intentional.

Well I'll just say that it is useful to know how other style works but from the Wing Chun point of view, if your training is right then the style's own concepts and methods take care of any eventuallity. It has worked for people who have trained in my lineage of WC, if it has not worked for people in yours or other lineages then I suppose that is a problem that has to be looked into, and seriously I might add. No I have not. I don't know of many boxers who have sparred against WC, BJJ, or Hung Kuen guys. Does that make boxing ineffective? More or less same as above. Fortunately for me, with continued training in the same lineage and with the same sifu I would be ready for any eventuality as much as a martial artist can be. And that my friend is Wing Chun or what Wing Chun (and quite a few other kung fu styles) was meant to be. So I will leave the pretending to the practitioners of "New and improved" and "Modern [better than before, because we've mixed bjj,TKD kicks,etc.] Wing Chun". I am however limited only by the fact that my training was interupted by my journey to London meaning that I still have a lot more to learn and much to improve, this includes the WC grappling and ground fighting as well as (the complete) Biu Jee. Luckily for me I train in another kung fu school here in North London where I am learning a rich but practical system of kung fu. This will hopefully help me when I resume my training with my Rio sifu in the coming year, hopefully. Calling it mainland China Wing Chun is a partial description of what I practice, that is all. Some may have influence from Yip Man and some don't. Wether there is heavy influence from Yip Man in Mainland Chinese Lineages or wether and more probably the other way round, or at least initially, I will leave for others to discuss as it is not part of our discussion. I am afraid that you have misunderstood me. I did not tell you that Hong Kong is not China. because IT IS China since the late 1990s. The Hong Kong WC may be different in some ways, but the country is still the same. Perhaps what I should have posted was that "The next time you are in Mainland China and NOT in Hong Kong you can research the WC kung fu further...." I have my own reasons. However if you have visited several schools in China and if you do indeed go to that part of the world regularly then you may need to do more research into Mainland Chinese Wing Chun. This will reduce the chances of you misunderstanding posts and comments from practitioners of Mainland Chinese lineages of Wing Chun.

As I put it before and clearly I believe, I am talking about Direct blows to intended targets. I assume that the other guy is fighting as well, or why else would one hit him. The point here is that there is no excuse for the other guy standing and unaffected, when the blows connect. Are you referring to your own Wing Chun trainning or are you generalising? Much more than many people believe. Sorry, I don't get your point and its relevance to my earlier post. Good. Then next time you are in (south) China (not Hong Kong), you can research the Wing Chun kung fu further. I am almost envious .

It SHOULD be in Wing Chun or any other authentic kung fu style, for that matter. Hitting people in particular target areas is not that exact or easy if they are resisting. But if you have reached a high level in any real kung fu style, including Wing Chun, then you should be able to put someone down with 3 EXACT BLOWS [THAT CONNECT] TO INTENDED TARGET AREAS. I didn't say that there aren't any mainland chinese lineages outside China. I said that I did not know of any outside China, besides the one in Rio de Janeiro. However, please do check all the mainland Chinese lineages of Wing Chun that you come across. I am sure you will see many fascinating differences. There are some that look [soft] almost like Tai Chi and others that have multitude of techniques not seen here in the West. Having said that, I hope that the ones you find are not Mc Donald lineages of Wing Chun or WC that is "modernized for today's needs", etc.

An interesting and meaningful article, thank you.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one, bearing in mind that 3 direct hits or "perfect hits", as you put it, are by implication, FULL POWER HITS on INTENDED target areas.

It is not a generalisation. If one has practiced authentic kung fu for years to a high level then he should be able to finish an opponent with three DIRECT HITS. If not then there is something wrong. Sorry, that is not what I said. Let me rephrase myself then : "If having achieving a high level of skill in Wing Chun (or any other genuine kung fu style for that matter), one can't put down ones opponent with three DIRECT HITS, then there is something wrong with ones kung fu and god help him if he is faced with multiple opponents." I hope that what I meant is more clear now. I believe that you are reading too much into my posts. I do practice genuine Wing Chun. So do many others on this planet. That is not the point. The point is that if one cannot finish an opponent with three direct hits then one is not practicing a correct form of Wing Chun or one is a lower level student. Of course you can. It is a Mainland Chinese lineage of Wing Chun (as opposed to Hong Kong). I did not say that it is better than the rest. It is a good lineage and a very effective system of Wing Chun that includes grappling, ground fighting and many other striking techniques that I have not seen in many of the more common lineages of Wing Chun. However, on the minus side, it takes longer to learn and make effective. Having said that, I WAS NOT comparing Wing Chun styles and I never said "mine was better than yours" etc. I.E. Again, whatever lineage of Wing Chun kung fu that you practice, if it is a genuine lineage and a good school and you have attained a high level, then you should be able to stop your opponent with 3 DIRECT HITS. That is all I am saying. And that statement stands true for any style of authentic kung fu and not just Wing Chun. I am afraid it will be very difficult to train in what I trained, unless you live in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. That is the only place that I know (outside China) where you can train it and that is where I trained it. I have not found anything that is similar to it here in London. So much that I train it on my own and take instruction in another genuine style of kung fu which I was most fortunate to come across. Also, there may be another sifu in Paris, France who teaches it, but I have no details about him at the moment. What part of the world are you posting from?

I believe that all the karate styles you have mentioned are on the hard side of the scale. If you are looking for a soft style of karate then look into Shotokai. Shotokai is the style taught by the people who follow the Shigeru Egami lineage of karate that is directly decended from Gichin Funakoshi (he was one of Funakoshi's disciples). Shotokai practice is very soft and uses many concepts that share more similarity with kung fu than with the typical karate training methods that most dojos practice. The aim of their training is to develop flow and cultivate Ki (internal energy). The power they aim to create comes from softness and not hardness. Shotokai is not as wide spread as Shotokan and therefore it is not going to be easy to find a dojo. However, check out the following site which is a great Shotokai site, with loads of information, history etc., and has plenty of international links. https://www.shotokai.com