goshinman

Wow. I don't know where to start. I have heard of BJJ blackbelts being great grapplers. I grappled with one. He beat me soundly. I'm NO slouch what-so-ever. Obviously I haven't grappled with ALL bJJ blackbelts but I do know that it takes YEARS and a lot of skill to aquire one. If you understood what it takes to become a BJJ blackbelt then maybe you would understand what I am talking about. JohnnyS' ferrari analogy is spot on. And by the way I am by no means a BJJ apologist, but I will give credit where it is do. So should you.

Seriosuly..you should chill out with the whole E-thug Tough guy internet image. Go watch the last UFC And you will se a Judo guy perform several throws without a Gi. Alot of BJJ guys would be be uncomfortable without a Gi too if that is all they had trained. Thank you TJS.

I would say Judo. I may be wrong but Most BJJ players don't mind being on their backs so they don't mind being takin down as much whereas judo players don't want to be on their nacks because of the rules of sport judo.

Gotcha, thanks for the input.

JohnnyS did you not read my post? I said that BJJ has evolved into it's own art. But you still have to acknowledge that it has roots in TJJ as well. Why won't you do that? The current beef that most TJJ people have with BJJ people is all the dissing you guy's do of our art. BJJ people started it. You guy's even try to diss Judo, WTF is that all about?

Everytime this guy touches his keyboard he proves how much of an idiot he truly is. Judo throws terrible without the gi? That shows right there that he is a crack pot. Sano makes more sense then you, dork.

Sounds good. Just make sure it's not another TMA bashing cult. Some of these BJJ schools have turned into superiority complex cult gatherings instead of respectable martial arts schools. Just make sure they teach you to respect your opponent regardless of style. Other then that I highly recommend BJJ. You can't lose with Judo either.

And for what it's worth I think that matt( jiujitsu fighter) should be banned from this forum. Threatening to kick someone's a** for expressing their opinion on a subject is unacceptable behavior. And people wonder why most martial artists don't respect BJJ and MMA/NHB types. It's because of morons like that.

You have got to be kidding me. I'll take you up on that. I haven't played with a BJJ blue belt in a while. It's easy to mouth off in front of a computer monitor about who's a** you have kicked blah blah blah. From the safety of my computer I can say I kicked Rickson Gracie's * in a private lesson at my house once and nobody could prove if I did or didn't because no one was there to see it you numb skull.

Here we go again. Why can't this topic stay dead? I don't know why the athur of this topic felt the need to say what he said and I really don't see the point of going through all of this again but if we must... While I wouldn't say BJJ is a "spin off" art I do acknowledge it as a variation of jujutsu. Jujitsu is jujitsu rather it's japanese or brazilian. The way you do jujutsu may be different/better then the way someone else does jujitsu, but it is still jujitsu. Tibby I don't think anyone is foolish enough to deny that the foundation of BJJ ground work has it's roots in TJJ. Whoever does is ignorant of the history of their own art because even novice BJJ people know that BJJ came from the Kodokan which came from TJJ. I also don't think it matters very much anymore. I think the problem comes when you try to say that it hasn't evolved separately from TJJ, which it clearly has. When you take the average TJJ Jujitsuka and put them up against a BJJ student with the same amount of training the BJJ student will win 9 of 10 times in a pure grappling match. It's purely because of the way they train that separates them from your run of the mill TJJ student. They go full out all the time from day one whereas most TJJ students don't experience full randori until much later on in training and sometimes they don't EVER do it! I have trained TJJ for 6 years and have only come to my level of skill because I had the stones to go out and hone my skills againt fully resisting opponents of all backgrounds. If you do a technique to technique comparision sure they have the same techniques. Armbars, triangle chokes, sweeps, naked chokes, guillotines, blah blah blah. In fact you would be hard pressed to find ANY BJJ technique that is not in TJJ ground work. But the difference is in the conditioning, the timing, and more importantly, the set up's. They know how to set up the moves much more efficiently because they do it full speed all the time and it is only through full randori can you learn to apply the submissions against a live person. Now a TJJ person who attends a school that does do hardcore randori and Ne waza all the time will be much better prepared for a grappling match with a BJJ person of equal training experience and the outcome would be much more interesting. And even then you still have to factor in the level of competition each man has faced day in day day out. So even if a TJJ guy does do randori and ne waza hardcore he STILL is at a disadvantage against a BJJ guy because these people are grappling tournament machines! And all they do is ground work as opposed to a TJJ guy who has to divide his time between ground work, clinch work, throws, weapons, and striking. In a streetfight however a TJJ person would hold the advantage because of the all-ranges training, the dirty fighting tactics that most TJJ styles teach, and the weapons training. There are just too many factors to consider.

Yeah I know what you mean. By the way there is something I have noticed when grappling BJJ people that you may have noticed as well. Is it just me or do Machado students know throws and breakfalls better then Gracie students. I have rolled with Gracie JJ peeps before and they always seemed to have trouble defending against throws into submissions and their breakfalling left a lot to be desired. But this Machado JJ guy I rolled with was right on it. He had good defence against my stuff and he knew throws as well. It also seemed to me that he had a little wrestling flavor in his ground game as well. I don't know, I guess it depends on the individual and their grappling background, ect.

Get a grip buddy it was a joke. Anywayz Karo needs many more fights against top grain opponents before he is ready to take a shot at Hughes. But in time he will be a contender. I still have some concerns about his stand up game, he seems to leave his head out there after he throws power shots. He will get he bell rung good by Hughes and any other good striker if he does that against them.

Great!!

I agree whole heartedly and what a great way to END this topic. So on that note... DIE TOPIC, DIE!!!

Yeah that was sweet. Quite frankly I am suprised more people don't use that tactic in the octagon. It's a nearly unstoppable technique because It's kind of hard to defend a submission when your busy trying to breakfall. Hopefully more Judoka will represent in the octagon so that peeps can see what Judo is all about and it can get it's props in the mma world and stop being overshadowed by the immitation. *cough* BJJ *cough* J/K

I second that notion. It should have been dead 9 pages ago.

Yeah I watched it and I belive I saw Gokor and Gene there as well. What a great UFC it was! And yes I saw Karo's fight. That guy is going to do big things in the UFC if he can stop leaving his head out after he throws a power punch. And how about the "Natural". That guy is now without question the best in the world. Now if only they could set him up with Frank Shamrock.

I wrestled in highschool, I studied for a year and a half under Gokor Chivichyan and Gene Lebell at the Hayastan academy, and have been studying japanese jujutsu for the past 6 years. I have also dabbled in catch wrestling and chinese shuai chiao for some time as well. So all together I have about 12 years of grappling experience with different grappling systems. Now I just mainly focus on my jujutsu training.

I had a grappling session with a friend of a buddy of mine who is a BJJ blackbelt under the Machados' and Man, all I can say is . I had long heard that BJJ blackbelts were awesome and all but DAMN!!! Here's how it went. We met up at a local gym and laid out some mats and just clowned around as we streched. When it came time to roll I was nervous and excited all at the same time, we clinched and he nearly got a takedown right off the bat. We tussled a bit and I managed to throw him down with o soto gari and we both fell down with me ending up in his guard. Now I have good ground work but the difference between mine and his was monumental because as I tried to pass his guard he swept me and gained the top position in my half guard, which he easily passed and within 2 minutes he got me in an armbar and of course I tapped. I have grappled with BJJ bluebelts and have tapped some of them and have even rolled with bjj purplebelts and had success, but the difference in the blackbelt was huge!! His movements seemed so calm and effortless that it was almost as if he wasn't even trying hard. So after the first tap we stood up and went at it again. My game plan was to transition into a submission off of a throw. I have used this tactic with good success because most BJJ people are used to fighting on their backs but aren't ready for submission right off of the throw, hell most people aren't because they are to busy trying to breakfall. I am usually able to get a submission by using o soto otoshi (major outer drop) into ude garami (kimura) or especially o soto makikomi (major outer wrap around) into a kimura as well. I have also had success with a variation of kata guruma (fireman's carry) into an armbar. For some reason most BJJ people are very vulnerable to this, but the more seasoned peeps aren't as much. Anywayz I almost nailed him with a major outer wrap around into a kimura but I couldn't get it sunk in and he eventually rolled out of it. Needless to say with my best technique failing me I had little else to do but to try and throw his * around a bit and hopefully catch him with something, but nothing worked and he tapped me several times with minimal effort. I have been humbled by an awesome BJJ expert and acknowledge it. Now it's time to get back to training and comeback stronger. I must give BJJ it's props. Their blackbelts truly are great and they live up to all of the hype. I am too pumped up to fall asleep right now because I loved every second of it and I wish I could go at it again. I saw so many opprotunities for submissions but couldn't get to them fast enough and that ticks me off. Well enough of my blabbering, any suggestions for next time anybody?

What is this? http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/vos/rollingjujigatame.gif

You fools? What the hell are you talking about? If he was over hear he'd be a dead man plain and simple. That fool would NEVER set foot on U.S. soil again. And you make it sound as if he was directly trained by the US which is blatantly untrue, providing weapons for a group in support of them fighting our enemies at the time is not the same as Training someone. That fool was trained in his own homeland through decades of war. And you don't honestly belive that our aitport security is that bad to where 6'8" Osama Bin Laden can just waltz on by undetected do you? Geez man wht kind of garbage does your media feed you out there about us?

NO!

NO!