neil; yes i have read your entry on page one......i just wanted to get your personal background..... taezee's response is very good and good reading. speed, focus, and follow through plus confidence is needed for the concrete and all breaks.(you must be ready to try).. you may try three pine boards without spacers for practice. remember if using hand techniques, keep you hand very tight and use the proper striking area..(.but not till your ready). never tried ice slabs..but they seem hard to carry around. like the ones in karate kid movie. _________________ rushman (taekwondo moderator) 3rd dan wtf/kukkiwon florida This Message was edited by: iamrushman on Aug 13, 2001 8:26pm