LionsDen

Also BJJ has something going for it karate and other striking arts don’t that make BJJ better for hobbyist in the modern world than karate. You can learn to fight with a fairly low risk of any serious injury from class. You might end up with some bad joints when you’re 60 as a result of years of training, but you won’t have to worry about going to school or work with a black eye, or bruised ribs, or anything like that. BJJ you can go more or less all out with a much lower risk of injury in class than you can do in karate or other striking arts And i hope no one thinks I am poo pooing the idea. It’s not my cup of tea but if it appeals to other instructors I support their decision to run their dojo that way, and maybe for them it will make a difference.

traditional king fu guys often claim that sanda is kung fu but often sanda people don’t identify that way.Sort of like kudo and karate.

I’ve never seen a king fu fighter in ONE FC, let alone dominating.Can you provide a name for that?

I can see your point but if he comes in and totally dominates it might encourage someone else to come in and try to do the same. They might view it as "easy money". The dream (in my head) publicity wise would be for Wonderboy (once done with the UFC) to give it a shot. That could be very interesting and would draw a lot of attention wonderboy is already a KC ‘sensei’So I doubt he’ll ever actually compete

So, Varga’s fight is coming up soon, and I am not sure how I feel about him being in the promotion. Most of the fighters in KC are very rough around the edges when it comes to full contact, and none of them have competed full contact at a high level like Bellator level of competition before. I think bringing a big name like Varga into the promotion is generally a good sign that revenue is strong, and the people behind it are still motivated for growth, and aren’t becoming complacent. On the other hand, I think Varga’s much greater experience means he will likely dominate completely, which could get boring for fans to see, and deter future talent from coming in and competing. What does everyone else think?

For "self defense or fighting," it depends on how immediate the need is. If it's a kid who is getting physically bullied at school, or anyone else getting physically assaulted on a regular basis for that matter, I'm only going to recommend boxing. No other martial art but boxing. For anyone who wants to learn "self defense or fighting" for "just in case" purposes, then karate actually enters the debate. Actually, i might disagree here from personal experience, though i think things have changed over time. I first started karate at 5 for that very reason (without going into too much detail i was picked on a lot due to being mixed race). Started mid 80s in the UK and trained 4 times a wk almost from the get go. I actually found it very useful self defence wise when a kid: i could throw a punch with a decent amount of power and generally handle myself reasonably. Over time (and a lot of fights) i began to be targeted a lot less. For context, before i started i would always lose - in particular this one kid always stepped in and gave me a kicking. About 3mths after starting karate i broke his nose with a punch and he never tried again. At the time i was also tiny: i didn't grow til my mid teens really so i was always a small kid I do know though that things might have changed a lot now and karate might not be as good self defence art for kids anymore, based on how it is currently taught. Just my 10p worth Yeah, but I didn't see you mention anything about experience with boxing. Walk into you nearest boxing gym, and just watch a whole session. You'll see the difference immediately. IME, karate training hasn't changed. I finally became "fully matriculated" later in life, but did some dojo-hopping as a child and into my teens in the 80's and 90's. If there are differences, I haven't seen any. With boxing, things like speed, accuracy, stamina, power, etc are trained on DAY ONE. Also, maybe with the exceptions of styles like Kyokushin or MMA focused karare, karate is generally all point-matches - nothing where a KO is the main objective. That's why most traditional karateka thought Karate Combat was so innovative - most have never seen anything like it. I don't know your situation, but I imagine that the people for whom karate would have "immediate" benefits would be those who've never thrown a punch before. Because at least they'll come out doing something they've never done before. But for the kids who have thrown their share of punches, with less than desirable results; karate will be of little benefit to them in the short run. Now, the kind of training that the Karate Combat fighters go though: if karate dojos in general adopted that, then we'd probably be looking at something with benefits as immediate as those obtained from boxing. looking at the way local point tournaments were run and rules enforced tells me that things have changed.There might have always been rules against ‘excessive contact’ but how people define excessive contact seems to have really changed over the years.

i guess for me that’s never been an issue.When I log into a forum, I scroll the unread posts until I find a title that catches my interest, then I read the first few posts, and add my 2¢ in.

It's not my style of Karate, though, because there are several key characteristics in their style that aren't as prominent as in conventional Shotokan. They have a YouTube channel, for example, where one of their videos shows them teaching their version of Oi tzuki. Chinzo's backfoot is entirely lifted during the performance, which was a big no-no for me when I was training all the time. Keep the back foot firmly and sink your weight into the punch, we were taught. A YouTube viewer inquired about it, and their channel responded "Attacking stance is poor; back heel is up" the Machida channel says, "heel down and plant to the ground does not applicable in real life."" I think most "traditional" Karate stylists would have an issue with doing it that way because of the aesthetics of it. It's been drilled and drilled into us over the years that in a front stance, the back heels stays down on the ground. In actuality, I believe the heel off the ground allows you to drive more power forward into the target. Yet we all know from forms competitions that if the back heel pops up, you're gonna get dinged on your points for it, regardless of how practical an application it may be. I think applicability should be the focus of karate personally, and should be part of the evolution of karate going forward imho.

You’re talking about training methods not like styles. Training methods vary from dojo to dojo. Many dojos have 0 grappling taught or practiced. My dojo we worked on throws and a couple of other take downs regularly. Many dojos never spar, my dojo used to regularly spar, and did hard spars regularly. Some dojos only focus on kata competition and kata collection with no deeper understanding, and some dojos don’t compete ever in favor of focusing on self defense. You can learn self defense at a boxing gym, but there is a bit more to self defense than ‘punch them in the face until they stop attacking you’ so the overwhelming majority of boxing gyms aren’t great places for learning self defense.

yes you are convincing people between martial arts. You’re not convincing people to start martial arts.What do you think the point of an advertisement or marketing campaign? It’s to convince consumers to purchase your product or service.

Definitely agree here. Tbh there is no such thing as a 'best' martial art, though there might be a best one for an individual. They should try it and see what they think of the instructor and other students. Most decent schools offer a minimum of one free lesson, so worst case you try it and score something off your list. I'd always prefer to have tried the thing and decided for myself that it was crap! But tbh i have found before that anytime i had to 'convince' someone to try that they generally don't stick it out. Proper MA training is hard. You have to have a desire to do it yourself for the effort to be worth it. The scenario isn’t trying to convince them to do martial arts. They’ve already made that decision, but to explain to them why karate over any other martial art. And sampling a few classes at different schools can give you an idea of if you enjoy the training and the coaches/teachers, but can’t tell you which one is best for what you want (in this case self defense or fighting) You’re literally just giving an advertisement or marketing pitch for karate.

the answer to that would be that most other styles do incorporate "kata" in some form, boxing has "shadow boxing" pad work with hand targets, foot work drills, etc.... wrestling has "duck walks/samurai walks" sit out drills, etc....the problem isnt kata but in how it is taught or its intensity, this is one of the things i was referring to with how most dojo' overlook the more intense training that other styles focus on. if you can train in a way that equils that of other styles then as stated above, the proof is on the floor and should be shown. i wish we had a like button here.

most ‘actual fights’ don’t last 10 minutes…especially if we’re talking self defense/street fight scenarios. In that case most last a minute or two at most (barring some really random and bizarre outliers) even in sport the only combat sport I know of where you’d regularly be fighting for more than 9 minutes is boxing. Most sport fighting simply doesn’t require that much cardio.And doubling back to self defense, the overwhelming number of criminals/bullies who might attack you won’t have the stamina to fight for 2 minutes. If someone can survive a 5 minute round of sparring without getting too gassed they’ll likely be able to out last an aggressor and be able to escape without much problem, especially if they’re focused primarily on not getting hit rather than trying to knock the criminal/bully out.

and how do you convince them to go out and experience karate?That’s a very non-answer answer.

I’d say “If you find a good dojo, karate will make you one of the most well rounded, you can be from a single martial art. You’ll learn striking, as well as basic and rudimentary grappling, which will set you up with a good base knowledge of grappling to move into a grappling focused martial art.”

I agree with the blueprint you presented. I'm hoping it takes on a life of its own and integrates more traditional Karate elements (especially bunkai..any bunkai for goodness sake) I don't want KC to become WKA, but I do want them to dress differently (not that WKA is bad) "So it's MMA without grappling...nice.." is a common comment on KC YT videos. it is integrating bunkai.Bunkai just means to break apart and analyze. Bunkai is just interpretation of kata. Stating a punch is a punch is bunkai, stating a kick is a kick is bunkai. If you’re looking for them to start doing fancy combos and catching fists/wrists, then I think you’ll be seriously disappointed.

it’s widely believed the rules for KC were originally adapted from WKF which makes sense as those are rules many if not most karateka would be familiar with, that mixed with the fact most of the competitors have a WKF background and the appearance is highly reminiscent of WKF point fighting.However over the years there’s been changes to the rules, and I think there will still be more rule changes in the future, and as karateka begin training specifically for KC i think the WKF resemblance will slowly die out. That will take years, and likely require ammy promotions under KC rules before that truly happens, or they begin recruiting more and more karateka from. MMA and KB promotions to break their fighters out of that WKF looking fighting style. As for all the fancy bunkais, that’s just symptom of the greater problem in karate. Lack of experience and understanding.

I don’t think that kata is necessarily a bad thing for sport fighters to train. The machidas, and wonderboy still make time to train kata. I do believe with the right mindset kata does have plenty of benefits for fighting both sport and self defense. I think in both of those focuses, that kata will take more of a backseat compared to the traditional model of training, but I think the modern mindset will keep kata around in both methods even if it’s only learning and practicing one kata a year while most of the focus is on dynamic drills and sparring.

Machida karate is shotokan, machida MMA is a different thing completely.

That’s a common thing in king fu which is a large portion of karate’s origins. You can find the same thing in white crane and golden crane katas, though it seems many karateka remove those parts.

I am the supreme grandmaster of the galaxy. I awarded myself this rank. Please hold your applause

home depot actually sells some good mats for fairly cheap

Good riddance to anyone who decides they don’t care if they infect me, without me knowing so I infect my grandparents. Don’t really need those people in the dojo, or society as a whole really

I agree with the bold, very much. It seems to me over the course of time, especially in the practice of the more "traditional" styles, stance work is too involved in holding static positions, and worry about the "aesthetics" of the movements. Stepping into a stance ends up being seen as a "stopping point," when it's more likely a point of power transition or movement into a recovery position. Yep Never heard a kyokushin karateka criticizing anyone based on their stances. Maybe more karateka should participate in full contact sport at least a little bit before teaching.

very basic and rudimentary boats yes.Luckily there are free websites that let you design all you want