LionsDen

I practice JJ in California, and I've seen our brown belt instructor, who occasionally instructs, give certain white belts their stripes without the head instructor being present. I've only seen this a couple times because I've only been playing JJ for nine months. Javier Blanchards academy in Anaheim (Machado lineage) he is now a black belt, was running his academy as a brown belt some time back when I was inquiring places to train. in addition, I recognize that it would be challenging to imagine a third kyu brown belt in karate assigning grades. i could see it.if a school has a brown belt in charge of a certain class of students for their first 3-6 months of training, i see no reason why a brown belt shouldnt be authorized to advance their students that they teach every week. part of the problem in karate imho is the "black belt isn't the end, its just the beginning" mentality. it's my belief that by the time you reach shodan you should be proficient in a wide variation of karate techniques, and proficient as a fighter. does that mean UFC, or ONE or bellator level of fighter? not really, but if you were to enter an amateur KB or MT or MMA fight you should at least be able to hold your own and ensure you're not getting steam rolled over. in BJJ black belt is the end, that doesn't mean BJJ BBs stop training and stop learning, it just means that they sure as heck know what they're doing by that point without a doubt. if karate as a whole shared a similar mindset then no one would have a problem with brown belts promoting students, especially students with significantly less than a year of training. i think we can learn and take a lot from the way BJJ does things. they're traditional, i believe BJJ actually is older than any of the named styles of karate, they were wear gis, use japanese and brazilian terms, bow to each other or use other shows of respect regularly, etc but they never pigeon-holed themselves into always following tradition.

In the situation you indicated, I would strongly disagree with your post's generalization of the majority of Westerners. (non Japanese) Teachers volunteered their time in every Shoto school I trained at for the same reasons that you did (spiritual,mental and physical aspect). There are non-profit organizations devoted to the tradition of shoto. Whether it is JKA, SKA, ISKF, SKIF or another organization, they are supporters of the system. The instructors I trained with were already well-off and dedicated to teaching Karate, some of whom prioritized it over their families, which I observed would lead to marital problems. On the other hand.. There are Japanese senseis from JAPAN who would host seminars and demand a hefty fee merely to go over a single kata with an emphasis on form and minimal knowledge of bunkai or basic fundamentals. Karate's "greed and lust" don't end at US soil, mate Now, I'd suggest that the aforementioned is true for organizations with legitimate lineages. There is "Bob Jacksons" Karate (a reference to Jim Carrey's Karate sketch on In Living Color), but those types don't speak for all western practitioners. Unlike the West People in Japan Practice either cause they want to or for the spiritual,mental and physical aspect just because non-profit organizations exist for karate doesn’t mean people aren’t making bank running them.I don’t know about karate nonprofits but places like the Salvation Army and Red Cross have CEOs who make just as much as for profit CEOs because only a few pennies if every dollar received in a donation or a grant goes to the actual cause. In the case of karate non-profits I’m pretty sure their ‘cause’ is karate which means just taking money from schools to have a certificate of association and charging people to participate in and attend their tournaments. Hell I considered the non-profit route because then I could get grant money to pay myself and still charge people a competitive (but slightly lower) rate for classes.

Technically speaking, you are mistaken because a SINGLE brown belt (not panel) can advance a student at any moment during class. Although I would assert that some schools might administer tests, those I have ever attended did not. Days of promotions are days of promotions. Every Karate school administers kyu/dan exams for advancement. Truthfully, I've never been to a school where the teacher simply gave a kid his subsequent rank during a regular lesson. The last two sentences spoke to my willingness to see karate adopt that specific aspect of promotion. if a brown belt goes and starts his own school he can promote anyone he wants in his school.I’ve never heard of a BJJ brown belt promoting anyone in a school they don’t own or where they don’t run a program/class on their own like at an MMA school.

your last two sentences there is exactly how BJJ promotions are conducted, so kinda contradicting yourself lol.

There was certainly betting going on during the 2020 Olympics. I would be surprised that there wasn't betting going on at World's and other large events that, while not popular in the public eye, does have no small number of watchers. I assume that, when it comes to betting, the rules follow the format of Rule 1 for the internet: If it exists, someone is betting on it. Add to this newer formats of Karate media like KarateCombat which betters would be more familiar with the spirit of, and I think it's safe to say that there is betting. I disagree here as a philosophical matter. I don't believe that things, in and of themselves, have value. We create and assign value to things and we tend to be incredibly biased when it comes to our favorite things. Value only matters insofar as as those that find value in it. Many people would say that Karate does not have any value at all, or negative value (I've met plenty of martial artists who take this position). We tend to view things like martial arts in terms of pure when it is closely related to the source material. We often ask questions about lineage to pre-judge the quality of the practitioner. We ask questions like "How related is it to Shuri, Naha, or Tomari-Te?" or "Was your teacher taught by someone taught by Ginchin Funakoshi?" We obsess over purity but in all reality a system can be as pure as we want it to be but if it isn't effective at what it is trying to do then it needs to change. In sense of purity, also, one could argue that modern karate is not "pure" at all. It isn't the karate of the past, it's blended and morphed. It changed with the world and it should have. It's a good thing that this has happened. It's good that Itosu created a program less rigorous so that schools would take it up in their P.E. programs. It's good that Funakoshi changed it to appeal to mainlanders wanting to learn Karate. As we learn more about physical health and as the world changes, we should change. i think you’re talking about a different kind of purity than he was. He was talking about a moral purity.And honestly the karate kid franchise is a perfect example of how karate is impure, and it has been for a long time.

Colors have no real meaning. Some dojos use different colors to denote different things, like student, assistant instructor, instructor, head instructor, etc. but that’s about it.

Many reason why karate is superior and it goes beyond and I mean BEYOND the physical aspect. For starters, karate has a healthier culture and it fosters a community that fosters healthy attitudes. The gi, the belt, the Japanese and Korean commands (TSD) serve as a way to deter bad disrespectful characters because chances are, they are not going to be in to wearing a gi, bowing and immersing themselves in the tradition because they feel like they are above it. I say this as a person who spent almost a decade in boxing and MMA gyms. Its not just the art but the culture that is included in the art form. That and in some boxing gyms, they set beginners up to be punching bag for experienced fighters. Real bad stuff can go down. A boxing gym I used to go to made the local news because the trainer has intense and irrational anger problems. Sadly he is not the first guy and not even the worse guy and yet he made it to local news and its on YouTube. Problem with MMA is, they focus on wrestlers or other stylist who mastered their art at some other place. MMA gym is also very expensive, the best fighters come from a singular style that they mastered and an MMA gym is just a glorified fitness. In the mid 2000s, the talk was that in the next decade, every fighter would not even learn any style, they would all be saying "mma from the first day baby" Meanwhile welcome to 2022 and yet, we have a kickboxers and wrestlers as champions for most division. One guy is a jujitsu guy and tons of contenders are also wrestlers and strikers. Truth be told, Karate is very powerful but you have to be able to truly immerse yourself in its subtle nature. Most folks want to just hit the pad and get a good sweat. It wont work like that, the form, the posture, the mind, the focus, the concentration and freedom from thoughts is the hallmark towards mastery of any style that is truly worth learning. Ultimately speaking, karate is about mastery and self perfection as well as learning how to fight. Its not about money, fame and glory. These three aspects can create a toxic environment and if someone makes it from the gym and others do not, it can foster a sense of envy and jealousy. Seen it way too many times. I think it is wonderful to learn the art of boxing but I truly believe its best to avoid the gym culture and learn it in a private setting with a qualified trainer. While with karate, I feel comfortable with the people. Even if a bad character makes it in karate, they still have to respect the tradition and so they cannot act the way they want and so even they muzzle themselves just to stay in the culture. Himokiri, Very well said indeed Thanks Tyler, This is something that is very near and dear to my heart. I love my boxing trainer. When he is not in town, I do not even bother with boxing. To me, its not just the art but the master that teaches the style of art. Others have coerced and dangled many types of promises such as " if you turn pro with me, I can take you to places" and I have heard other lies and dishonesty. Karate is so pure, free from gambling, bets, fixes and other underhanded tricks that serves corrupt individual. I have always if the white gi represents purity of someone's passion and principle. But to be fair, I find that boxing is an extremely incredible martial arts. The right type of boxing coach can take your breath away with the magnificently subtle techniques and shifts that produce incredible results. Problem lies within the sporting culture that attracts problems. It is a shame because boxing in its purest artistic form has so much to offer that extends beyond the naked eye. I believe boxing skills learned from the perspective of karate can produce incredible results. ....this whole 'pure' thing is just creepy to me. seems like a blind worship.karate is plagued by all sorts of corruption, from mcdojos, to pedophiles, and other sexual predators/creepers. there's nothing about karate that makes it inherently more 'pure' or less corrupt than any other martial art or combat sport. as for betting i'm sure there's plenty of betting going on for the big national competitions (relatively speaking) and if not, there sure as heck would be if karate as a sport ever became truly popular, and there's probably about as much betting on karate combat as MMA again relative.

Also what state? That can really effect prices since some states have much higher costs of living. I’d honestly charge more if my town had a higher mean and/or median income. Around here both mean and median income is around 28-33k, so me charging $25/month puts me in the upper end of what someone can realistically charge. 3 classes per week would be over 10k for a customer. One class per week is 1200 per year.

excellent post; following the explanation, I more clearly see the commercial justification. from the perspective of a customer, I always want to get what I paid for and will, of course, search for the best deal available. After everything is said and done, all I have to do is keep an eye out for a location that will meet my specific demands. How do you judge getting your money’s worth? Do you base that only on length and number of classes you get? Do you base that on how long the instructor(s) Like I said I charge $25 per class, 50 minutes per class. However I have over 20 years experience, have point fighting championship, experience fighting and coaching MMA, and experience from ‘real world’ violence. My rate is not cheap, but to find people with similar experience and background you’d likely be looking at $50+/hr And in similar areas, training is even more expensive for even less experience, and for people with real world experience you can be looking at about $500–$1000 for a 4-5 hour class, or roughly $100-$200/hr

yep, some times the situation dictates the terms by which we teach.my preferred age group is older teens and adults. then i found a place directly across from an elementary school, and i had to decide, is teaching 5-11 year olds worse work than doing security? nope. little kids karate classes it is! though once that gets really up off the ground and takes off i'll probably start a few day classes for adults as well.

tbh in non-KK i haven't met a single person who had joint issues beyond what would be expected for their age at worst, or people who had joint injuries from some other circumstance that could be aggravated by karate, but never someone who was 40, with the knees of a 60 year old for no apparent reason other than blaming karate.

According to https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ $1 in 2020 is equal to $1.13 in 2022 money. $1.13x90=$101.7 So $150 would make sense to insulate from annual price increases due to inflation over a decade or so, they can keep the price the same for many years. Just for reference.

I charge $25 per class, and $45 for private classes.People are trying to make a living, and if they have paid staff of any sort those people need to be paid as well. When did you used to train? Inflation sucks no one likes it, but prices can’t stagnate while inflation is skyrocketing if a business wants to keep its doors open Another way to look at it, if you’re the only student who paid for a class at a specific time, does it seem fair to expect someone teach you for minimum wage?

I’m not quite sure what the quest or issue you have is. You’ve found dojos that have adult only classes, are you bothered they don’t have more classes available per week?

Funny story, but I could have technically had my own dojo at 18 as a shodan. The head sensei announced when I was 16 he was closing the dojo so he could be more present for his son’s senior year, but one of the assistant instructors stepped up to take over, but after about 6 months he told me if I wanted to take over when I turned 18 I could. End of the school year and the original head instructor was back now his son was off at college. Also might just make it fun and make it similar to the Pokémon gym challenge lol.

My gf made me remember that at one point I had a dream to have a massive dojo, that had an approach that was like 100ft long lined with 12-15ft tall statues, all of this sitting solitary on top of a hill. Think like Pokémon elite four, but for karate. And no I wasn’t 8 or 9 when I had this idea, I was at least 18. And now I want to make that happen. The dream is back!

nothing would change, if promotion methods changed. If a student hadn’t gotten an appropriate level of competency during scheduling advancement tests and an instructor advanced the student that’s not going to change with the other method, an instructor will just advance people who aren’t ready, if that’s what an instructor is predisposed to do.

Only mcdojos and frauds do ‘ki’ training. Serious dojos don’t

why do you train?Also are you doing kyokushin? This sounds very kyokushin.

Testings are normally about an hour and a half maybe two. The biggest point is simply to tire students out and add pressure. If they’re invited to test it’s a 99% chance they pass because we’ve already decided they’re ready. As long as a student doesn’t quit or perform absolutely atrociously then they’ll pass.

considering the population differences I’d say it’s still generally true statement.And I know Europe generally controls martial arts schools and I believe helps subsidizes them as part of national sports or something, so you’d have to convince national governments to institute such changes I believe. I'd say that it is similar in the UK too for the most part. Most instructors basically charge the price for the hall rental and not much more. Only guys who really seem to do it "for a living" are bjj and mma schools, but even then there aren't too many of either. I’ve heard that in Europe martial arts in many countries martial arts are regulated by the government so there you mighthave to convince the government to approve the changes.

long story short, karate has become too big for any changes to realistically be instituted on a large scale, and too many people have found out what makes them a lot of money teaching karate, making any changes almost impossible to be universally accepted regardless of how much in increases quality of training. many adults treat karate like tai chi. many kids are signed up for karate, as a form of daycare.

Just curious about where you get that 1695 date. Whenever I try to look up history or origins of kata, I can never find any real solid evidence beyond the mid 1800s. Obviously if it was being trained in 1860, it’s pretty likely it was trained at least for a while before that, but 100+ years seems like a stretch to assume.

One part you have missed from the promotion system here that makes it a little more complex is the lineage aspect. People don't say they are a X Belt; they say they are an X Belt under Person Y who is under Professor Z. This does lead to a divergence in standards a little but it also means people have an idea still of someones level e.g. I always used to hear people talk about Cesar Gracie being notoriously hard to grade under; Saulo Ribeiro used to make a lot of higher grades put a white belt back on unless they had trained under a Gracie directly or a student that had directly trained under them. I'm not sure if it would work with karate nowadays since there are so many people who do train/have trained and claim rank. BJJ system worked since it was a much smaller art and it grew with the system remaining in place. I can't see how you would implement it now : eg a lot of karateka train under one Instructor but have a different Grading Examiner. This is different from the usual BJJ model where the instructor awards the belts (Sometimes they check in with their own instructor for permission when awarding senior belts). You also cannot typically map a BJJ grade to a karate or other style grade as the levels and requirements are totally different. A BJJ BB doesn't really get assessed again once it has been achieved (degrees are time based) and it usually takes a skilled practitioner 10-12 years to achieve. This is closer to the time for someone to get to a 3rd dan or so in karate etc. Personally i think it would be good to see people making a bigger deal about their lineage in karate; it would hopefully help to raise standards etc but i doubt it will happen tbh lineage makes a difference in BJJ largely because competition is baked into the culture of BJJ, and it’s competition where people go 100%, so you can see an instructor’s record, you can see the records of their students, etc.In karate most competition is light contact, and verifying a record for someone who hasn’t competed in a regional or national level competition in karate is pretty difficult. I can give you my lineage, 100% honest and 99% of it is pretty impressive, but my direct instructor has nothing but a belt and time training/teaching to his name that would seem impressive. On the other hand I could give you my lineage and leave out my direct instructor and simply stop at the hombu instructors who I have worked with regularly over the years to inflate myself a little bit. Likewise the level of karate competition I did was state level, but I can’t even find records of my gold medal now, that it’s been well over a decade…and does any one outside the karate community really even care I was a point fighting champion? Probably not.

if your sensei is promoting people you think are undeserving in regularly scheduled testings, why wouldn’t they also just hand out promotions during class when they feel a student has been there enough?Why would a promotion before during or after class inspire people any more than a promotion during a regularly scheduled testing class? In my opinion whatever issues a dojo has with premature promotion will transfer over to random class promotions. Also those promotions feel a little bit arbitrary in nature to me. Was the class a student was promoted the first time they displayed that level of performance and understanding? Or was the instructor watching to see if they maintain that level of performance and understanding? If they waited, then how long does one wait? With regularly scheduled testing periods, the intervals may be arbitrarily chosen, but in the month or weeks leading up to the testing, students can be actively evaluated, and if they’re deemed ready there’s a period to make sure the maintain that level of performance, and the testing itself is mostly a formality, some pomp and circumstance, which for some people makes the achievement feel more important and serious. I have spent time today considering offering students the option between random in class promotions, and testings at regular intervals.