JazzKicker

Since this is a day of retrospective at KF, I think this is a question worth asking. Times change, right? Just like there's web alternatives to forums like this now, there's also so many alternatives and expanded knowledge in martial arts. Indeed, it was 20 years ago I answered this question for myself, "Yes", but not in the same way. The things we do in life, like getting an education, become part of us, and with that, we move on with those skills and experience. There's a Zen saying, "Once you cross the stream, you don't need to keep carrying the boat". And so it is for me- I still practice the techniques, the principles I learned back then, and more. But it is became a basis for me to build on. I come to KF for a reminder of those roots, that the learning is still valid today, even if what I practice now looks different.

My personal goal continues to be, whatever I do for training, to do it 2-3 times per week. On this "Anniversary Day" for Karate Forums, I'm reminded, the most important thing is to show up, to be consistent. The support of others, in whatever form, is helpful in maintaining that discipline. Earlier this year, whether it was shorter days, or weather, or pandemic-related isolation, things like jogging or doing forms in my back yard, I slacked off on. It always hurts more and is less productive to be spotty. Now I'm back running 2-3 times per week, and it feels much better.

About 25 -30 years ago, I researched this question, and additional information has come along since then, too. Even before then, in my college days in the early 80's, I started off in Shito-Ryu karate, taught by a Japanese immigrant who had come out of their college system. When I transferred to another college, i found Tang Soo Do. The forms were essentially the same! Much more high & jump kicks, though, and overall the style is a little more circular, less rigid. So I already knew from experience that Tang Soo Do was essentially karate, I just didn't know the back story. The official story was TSD was "a 2000 year old martial art with roots in China"....blah blah blah, no mention of Funakoshi or the Okinawan history, before Japan, even. Eventually I started learning about other interpretations of karate like Ryu-Kyu kempo, pressure point theory- and I realized there was much more to what I had been taught. Then people on the web like Len Losik, Dan Nolan, John Hancock revealed what they had found out, too. Later, getting into hapkido, and meeting & hearing stories from Korean masters from back then, I realized how culturally these "origin stories' came to be. Honestly, it's probably better just to train, and not get into it, particulalry with Korean masters- it can be a very touchy subject.

Thanks for your long term efforts here! It shows the karate spirit.

My personal experience has been, every school that had a belt system, including ones in the association that I had been part of, didn't want me. MMA, boxing, JKD, they don't care, just come and train.

Even Billy Jack got beat down in that movie. I haven't personally been in such a situation, but several of my buddies and instructors back in the day were bouncers and/or corrections officers. Even when there was no surprise, they were in charge of the situation, they weren't outnumbered, and they had backup, they would still get banged up.

Great question! It's one I've considered, not quite literally like winning the lottery, but what I would do if I had the money, and more importantly, Time to do whatever. It would be great to have a nice dojo, with hardwood floors, Asian-motif decorating (bamboo, shoji screens, hewn beams, etc.). An area with tatami, and another with heavy bags and makiwara. Good HVAC, too. It would be great to bring in leading instructors, for individual training. Having more time, I'd still probably only train 2-3 times a week for a couple of hours. Recovery time and avoiding injury are important, and money can't change that! That said, part of the simple beauty of martial arts is, it's cheap, and almost anyplace can be a dojo. I've trained in basements, school gyms and wrestling rooms, storefronts, warehouses, fitness centers, firehouses, parks, the beach...[/b]

Great topic! I keep both a bi-weekly training log, and a notebook. The log is a single page spreadsheet that is like a 2 week calendar, days across the top mark the columns. The rows are activities, whether forms, kicks, calisthenics, etc. I also include my running and cycling mileages and body metrics like weight. I've been keeping these records over 15 years. I first adopted it when I learned about sports science, and periodization. It's great to track progress, see what you need to work on. My notebook is usually a cheap schoolkids composition book. I first started keeping one around 30 years ago, when I was training for a black belt test. Our Grandmaster had put out a book based on his notes from training many years, and I thought it was a good idea, especially since I had to write an essay as part of my test. I've used the notebook to record all kinds of things, highs and lows in training, experiences like seminars, things that have inspired me, etc. It's something of an autobiography, really, of how I've learned and evolved in martial arts.

Sounds like this student got pretty far into a de-conditioned state. Exercise is very important for mental health, too. A black belt should already know how to train themselves, know what their current limits are and what to work on. I would recommend starting off slowly with solo training for at least 4-6 weeks, all the usual stuff you would do in a class, just fewer reps and shorter duration.

Great question, and one I've been thinking about in this time of quarantine. Ordinarily I'm more pressed for time, so I go running a couple of times a week, road bike about once a week, stretch pretty regularly, and work in solo MA practice where I can. Working remotely, I have somewhat more time, so I've been able to increase the "karate" portion of my exercise. to about 2-3 45 minute sessions per week, while keeping the other activities constant. There is an upper limit, though, especially as you get older, for how much you can do, and allow for recovery time.

Have a chat with the instructor, just ask him rather than offering anything. Some things that might influence the decision are how formal or traditional the school is, and if there are other adult black belts. i think isshinryu forms are different from shito-ryu, too, so that might set you back. I first started in karate decades ago at a shito-ryu club, the instructor was from Japan where it was a collegiate sport. i got up to 2nd kyu brown belt before I transferred away to college, and hooked up with a new Tang Sood Do club at my college. Turned out the forms where almost the same, and I was given an equivalent rank.

i would certainly hope there was room for self-expression. if you've studied JKD, you know Bruce Lee's entire point was that. And boxers, they don't have a "style', other than being themselves. There isn't an "Ali" style or "Tyson" style. It depends on the school you go to, of course, but also what your degree of self-expression is. If you go to a traditional school but tell them you don't do front stance or reverse punch, you'll have a problem.

I'm actually training more now on a regular basis than I have in a long time, though it is solo training. I'm juggling working remotely, along with my wife, and caring for our toddler. I can't stray too far or too long away from the house, and there's too many people out & about taking walks & such, so my other exercise activities of running and bicycling are limited. "Backyard Karate", as I call it, works well in this situation.

This could be one of those "why, back in the old days we used to.." discussions. It depends on where you're from and how old you are. If you're in America, karate and tae kwon do got here in the 50's and 60's. The pioneers taught as they were trained, so "old school" dates to then. My first instructor was from Japan, a product of one of the main universities in the 50's,and he was a leader in competitive judo. So his club reflected that background, including the canvas tatami. I can still feel the blisters and rub burns 40 years later! Equipment was not really available yet. For sparring gear we had those thin little mitts that were like wearing a padded sock on your hand. The heavy bag was a canvas sack filled with old clothes. Punching targets were stacked foam cross-tied with old belts. When I went off to college and switched to Tang Soo Do, one of my instructors had been a Marine drill instructor, and was still Special Forces reserve. So our training was more rigid and militaristic, tougher, too. We used empty engine coolant jugs for kicking targets. Years later I saw a Moo Duk Kwan documentary from the 50's, training the same way we still did in the 80's. Us being college kids, not recruits, we kept our teeth and most of our blood. I think there's a romantic misperception that old school Okinawan practice was bare-foot farmers and fisherman, practicing in secret in back yards at night, and that Funakoshi was the leader of a very small number of practitioners. Reading Mark bishop's book, it details how there were many dojos, out in the open, even back in the 19th century.

Reviving an old thread, I know, but I was just thinking about this topic. Back in the 90's, I was training hard in Tang Soo Do, but took an interest in Dillman's Ryu Kyu Kempo. An old college friend and karate student went on to become a full-time instructor and was affiliated with DKI, hosting many seminars. I went to several seminars, and it opened my eyes to new interpretations of forms. Pressure points do indeed work but not on everyone, and whether it's practical in a live scenario is another matter. What bugged me about Dillman, though, is you'd ask him a question, and he'd tell you what video to buy that covered the answer. He was always promoting himself. I remember when he first started presenting his sound and no-touch theories- that's when he lost me. My friend had a falling out with him, he's never discussed it, but many others left around the same time. I used to have several of Dillman's books- they were loaded with filler photos (I was even in one of the seminar pics). I sold them all on ebay a few years ago.

Why are you still wasting your time at this school? Rank is a construct that manipulates your ego. It's used to reward children and motivate adults who crave status. Martial arts is the only sport that does this, though there are many, from MMA to Tai Chi, that don't even use belts. Rank just indicates you've been training x amount of time, and you've shown you can meet certain criteria (like forms or techniques) with adequate skill. Your attendance AFTER achieving that has no bearing whatsoever. This instructor is using demoting you as punishment, to control you. It's pretty twisted. Run Away!

Welcome, and congratulations on starting a new martial arts journey at an age where many are taking it easy. If I could offer one piece of advice, it's to pace yourself. Give your body time to adapt and recover between training. Overdoing it leads to injury.

I'm not familiar with the rules here, but clearly what happened, intentional or not, was a TKO.

Whether he could really fight or was just a showman is a question that comes up a lot about Bruce Lee. I've trained in JKD quite a bit over the years, including with people who trained with him or some of his early students. They would tell you he was the real deal, an innovator, a genius. Whether his theories about combat hold up in real life depend, as always, on the person applying them Keep in mind, the martial arts world was very different then. Styles did not mix, people did not cross-train, knowledge (whether right or wrong) was not freely shared. Traditionalism was very strong and people "stayed in their lane". In today's world, Bruce might have done very well in his weight class in the UFC- IF he'd gotten more into the ground game. But that MMA exists at all is in part due to his influence. I think his contribution eclipses whether he would have been a top contender in ring sports.

This could apply to Shotokan and styles with similar/common forms. I'm interested in web or published info that explores meaning and/or applications of movements in forms, beyond the obvious "block, punch, kick". I first got into this many years ago, with some guidance from a friend who was big into the ryu-kyu kempo pressure point theories of George Dillman. I don't want to revisit that stuff, but in the various Tang Soo Do hyung (practically Shotokan) I do, I realize there's more to figure out about what was really intended in some of the obscure movements. I know I have to figure it out for myself, to a point, but I'm looking for some guidance

One of the things the discipline of karate teaches you is sometimes you have to push yourself to get off the couch and go practice. As I got more experienced, and older, this idea became more nuanced. I realized, if you're going to show up, you have to "bring it". You can't necessarily control how a class is going to go, so if you really don't have the energy, it might be better to stay home. When you're young, learning to keep at it, not become lazy or distracted, is important. When you're older, recovery time is longer and more important.

I really have to jog my memory for this one! 1- Shito-Ryu 2- Tang Soo Do 1- TKD 1- Hapkido 1 JKD/MMA at different locations 1 Boxing club I've had a few "try-outs' and short-term experiments here & there as well.

I guess the OP was "one and done". Anyway, despite decades of martial arts training, more on than off, but mostly off in the last few years (my 50's!) I haven't had a disciplined stretching routine. That is, I know I should stretch most every day, but I haven't. Once I got away from the Korean arts and lots of kicking, I didn't feel like I needed it that much. Well, that's changed. I've started stretching every day as part of my morning routine, and it feels great to loosen up and energize my body for the day. Fortunately, though I was inconsistent I didn't let things go too much, and my body has it's muscle memory. The trick will be not overdoing it when my mind thinks it can do something I used to do, before I'm ready!

Check it out: http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Art-Untold-History-Kwon/dp/1550228250/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236803755&sr=1-1 My hat is off to Alex Gillis and the magnificent work he has done in putting this book together. In an effort to understand what TKD rose out of, Gillis sought interviews with many of the movers and shakers of early TKD; men like General Choi, Hong-Hi himself, Nam Tae-Hi, Jhoon Rhee, Min-Hi Rhee, Tae Eun Lee (WTF), Jung-Hwa Choi, the General’s son, as well as the General’s daughters, Hee Jin Choi (WTF), and many others, including various personal assistants to General Choi over the years. Gillis himself is a practitioner of both ITF and WTF TKD, so he has knowledge of both sides of the story. I also feel that he presents the information in a very neutral tone. Along with much research, he has opened up the world that TKD grew out of; from Korea’s independence from Japan and its roots in Karate, to the “invention” of its roots in Taek Kyon and the “connection” to the Hwarang warriors, to its use in the politics of a fledging country. Gillis tells of several accounts of TKD masters involved in covert government operations, with TKD in the midst of it. The link between TKD and the Korean CIA is discussed as well. He also talks about Choi and Kim Un-Yong quite a bit, and the rivalry of the ITF and WTF, and Kim’s drive to the Olympics, as well as Kim’s rise and fall through the ranks of the IOC. Gillis also talks of Choi’s constant suspicions and mistrust, and how he drove away many of his masters, and his eventual rise to prominence in North Korea. With stories that sound so cloack-and-dagger as to resemble a Robert Ludlum novel, the book constantly engages the reader in the chapters of TKD’s history. I cannot possibly do justice in completely highlighting the information in this book, so I won’t continue to ramble much longer. Now, thanks to the work that Gillis has done, TKD practitioners have a reference source of where the art truly comes from, without the noticeable ITF or WTF slants of other publications. We can finally see the true history of TKD, and hopefully gone now are the exaggerated claims of “5000 year histories” of future TKD texts. In my opinion, this book should be required reading for ALL TKD practitioners. Old post, I know, but I saw your recco of this book in a more recent post, and wanted to say thanks! I've read much of the excerpts online, and it's a colorful and engaging read. I was a TSD guy back in the day, and heard the bogus "2000 year old art" stories, too. Eventually the more modern, accurate history came out, but I never read so much detail or about the behind the scenes politics and intrigue. It really depicts a struggling country, with suffering people. It dispels romantic notions of virtue and mysticism with the reality of violence and political corruption. The military aspect explains why traditional training seemed so rigid and disciplined.

Unless your attendance has been spotty before that, or you've otherwise had problems at the school, I would say it's nonsense, and you should go to a different school. There's plenty of choices in central NJ. If you want to stick with Ryu Kyu Kempo and Edison is not too far for you, go to Mark Kline's "State of the Art Karate Institute". He's an old friend from college, and an international grandmaster, very knowledgeable.