JazzKicker

Flexibility training for karate is necessary, for sure. Every sport benefits from it, but martial arts more so because of the variety and range of motion. Old school was a brief warm up, then deep static stretching like splits, etc. Sports science has learned that warming up and doing dynamic stretching within the normal range of motion for the activity is best. I would stop short of ballistic stretching, things like throwing axe kicks, before you're really warmed up. Then, to improve range of motion, do static stretching at the end of the workout. Gizmoes like racks and pulleys do work, but they have to be used carefully to avoid injury. Some people will always struggle to kick high because of the structure of their hips- the joints simply won't allow it. I would also caution that relying on leg flexibility to kick high, and maintaining a vertical spine,erect posture, will put a lot of strain on your low back and potentially damage the discs in your sacrum.

I recently read Peter Urban's book, "Karate Dojo". There's a bunch of mystical, apocryphal stories, which he admits are tall tales. Maybe they're good for inspiring children, like fairy tales. There was probably a time when karate was new and exotic to Americans that people believed those stories. I think parables are good ways of getting across an underlying message.

I think Van's school has a good way of handling it, not making a big deal about rank and giving people a chance to fit in and train. Last fall I visited a club that had JKD classes, no problem for me to walk on and train. No belts, no problem. The times it was a problem, it never got past the "Hey, can I come and train here? question." Certainly not a confrontation like the previous question. But it does remind me of a story from about 10 years ago. The club I was training at was folding up, so I visited a TKD school that also offered, they said, Hapkido, with Korean masters. I talked to the GM, he told me it was $1300/yr, but we could "work something out", that he had a Hapkido master coming in a few weeks and I was welcome to come train. So I came back in a few weeks, when they had a class scheduled, and a young black belt and the new Korean Hapkido guy were there, though not the GM. The young one said, sure, you can train, so I put on my uniform. Then they had me come in the office. They wanted me to pay 6 months in advance, plus $20 for the night, and $75 for the month. This, they said, was to "prove my commitment" . I said, well, I'm already committed, I've been doing this for years. And most schools offer a trial, and certainly don't ask you to pay for 6 months before you've even seen a class. I was ready to leave, but they caved, and said, since you're already here and dressed, the master would like to train with you a bit. So we worked out, and I realized (and they admitted later) they were testing me. Needless to say I never went back.

OneKick, I think you're being too kind to simply call it incompatibility. In the example you gave, one instructor black belt had effective technique, the other did not. Worse, the second one wasn't just fooling himself. Your fellow students got into complaining about the first one because they had been led to believe they could practice effectively without it being at all rough or painful. This is the kind of group suggestibility that leads to the phony demos you see so often in aikido (and, to be fair, some of the pressure point/ no-touch knockout things).

Once again my experience was confirmed. Last week I visited a school that was part of my old organization, I talked briefly with the master instructor before a class. I just asked if he had a schedule for adult classes, and he asked about my experience. I told him, and we chatted about the people we knew, etc. He said he'd have to talk to his master (the owner of the chain), took my name & information- and I never heard back. Then I went to my old JKD/MMA coaches new facility. He was happy to see me, showed me around, said I was welcome to come in and use the place after work if I just wanted to work out, told me he'd reinstituted JKD and CQC classes now that he had more space- so yeah, I'll go where I'm welcome and leave the politics and belts behind.

Hey, that's 3 things, not the single most annoying one thing! I would have to say the single biggest thing is the "Nonsense", whether it's the marketing hype, fakers, or posers, and the lack of respect for martial arts that stems from it. People in the martial arts fight amongst themselves about it, and people on the outside just think it's all a joke.

Oh, he sucker punched him on purpose, but the victim fell and hit his head.

As the saying goes, Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. As a practical matter, it depends on how much damage you do. A few years ago I was a juror for an assault & battery case. It was 2 young men who worked at a pizza joint. One, the aggressor, considered himself in charge (though he wasn't the boss), and the other was kind of a slacker. So the bossy kid bullied and hassled the other until it came to blows, and as you might expect, the bully "won" the fight but ended up in trouble. We concluded the defendant was guilty, but it didn't meet the standard of assault & battery. If I remember correctly the charge was reduced to simple assault, and he got a slap on the wrist. On the other hand, there was a case in NJ last year of a bar fight where a guy was killed by a single punch, and the guy who unintentionally did it was charged with manslaughter

When I've had this experience at a traditional school, it was (with one exception) in the same style. I think some of the points you made are valid, though. I also think in the traditional environment there's concerns about hierarchy, loyalty, and organizational politics.

How do you treat someone with prior experience who visits your school to ask about training? I've been in both traditional and non-traditional martial arts for many years, and from time to time I've looked around for a new school. What I've found is, the non-traditional clubs- JKD, boxing, MMA, combatives, are happy to show me around, have me come train. No attitude or suspicion. But visiting commercial, traditional clubs (like my old TSD org, or TKD), once they ask about my experience, it becomes clear I'm not welcome, it's not the place for me.

I'd have to refer to my old manual on the shelf at home for the specifics, but it (and Shin's later book) played up the 3 kingdoms, Hwa Rang, etc. but glossed over the 50's, other than there were multiple styles who's masters agreed to combine into Tae Kwon Do, while Hwang Kee wanted to stay traditional and independent. The chartering of WTSDA was just before my time, but Shin's original organization was the US Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation. Yes, his school was called Shin Karate, but the style was indeed called Tang Soo Do. I think the original one in Burlington is still run by In K. Yu. The later one, in Trenton, moved long ago and is run by one of the senior masters, John Godwin. I trained with many of the Trenton area masters. Early on he had several Korean masters, too, but they all left and formed their own organizations.

I first got involved with World Tang Soo Do back in the mid 80's, after 3 years and a brown belt in Shito-Ryu (which is also pretty close to Shotokan). The forms were practically the same, kicking was the big difference. That, and TSD was less rigid and linear in movement. I was at a college club, and the local Shotokan club was much different in terms of training, more traditional Japanese in structure. At the time I didn't give much thought to the origins or commonality. GM Shin and their black belt manual barely acknowledged Hwang Kee, let alone Shotokan. The book said Tang Soo Do was a 2000 year old Korean martial art! I understand late in life Hwang Kee finally admitted he'd taken the forms from Funakoshi's book.

It's one of the ironies of traditional martial arts, spending lots of time learning stances, drilling them in forms- and in free sparring, not really using them. Worse, if you want to learn to fight, against a (kick)boxer, wrestler, MMA guy, you have to unlearn standing there like a dummy. That said, I've trained with a lot of non-traditional fighters, and they tend to be weak with kicking and balance because they don't have the base of having good stances (even if it's not a deep horse stance!)

Reading the responses I notice that there's a much different perspective from the people who are still reaching for the goal vs. those that made it and been around for a while. I feel bad for the people with the comments about it being stressful, not fun, still not knowing how to fight, exhausting, etc. It doesn't have to be like that. Thinking back, I had a few of those feelings at times, too, and not training for 1rst dan, but 3rd! I'm glad I did it, but when I went on to train in other arts that didn't have belts, or didn't bother much with rank, it was quite freeing. I also saw, in MMA training, people develop into very proficient fighters in 6-12 months training. What I'm getting at is, the meaning of a black belt is more about what you get out of the process of attaining it.

Arguably, overtraining contributed to his death. It's great to be passionate about training and work hard. Just realize martial arts can put a lot of wear and tear on your body, and it has to last the rest of your life. In my 20's and 30's I overdid it with kicking, and was prone to back pain. Eventually I wised up. In my 40's, it was MMA, and we wailed on each other. One day I wondered, are we still going to be doing this on our 50's? Now I'm in my 50's, and dialed back the training before I got hurt. Some of my old (but younger than me!) buddies weren't so lucky. I know guys who've had to get knees surgery, had pins put in bones, etc. So train smart, don't beat yourself up!

I'd forgotten I weighed in early on, but re-reading this thread and subsequent posts, what struck me is that the OP is trying TOO hard, and self-evaluating from one day to the next. Well, this is bound to get you tense and frustrated. Change and improvement come gradually, not linearly- then one day you notice the thing that used to be so difficult, you're doing without thinking. Part of it is, you have to rest and relax, to come back to it fresh.

I used to have a couple of shelves full of martial arts books on various styles, many of which showed up in the forum sticky on this topic. I came to a point in my training where I decided books are mostly useless for actually learning techniques, certainly obsolete with DVD and YouTube. Instructional books, in particular, seemed silly, with photo after photo of facing one way, then another, along with diagrams with footwork, etc. I downsized before a move, and probably half my small library went to friends or ebay, including some fairly collectible texts. It's still fun to look through used book stores for historical treasures, and I've kept a few of those. The books I do find useful these days are philosophical, biographical, or about training methods.

One of the lessons of the (Asian) martial arts is that things aren't necessarily black or white. Yin and Yang are complementary (and there's that pesky little dot of each in the other). People do a lot of things, particularly in traditional martial arts, that aren't practical. Not just techniques, but the whole way of practicing. If you took all that stuff out, it would look like the old footage from Bruce Lee's backyard. For example, I'd be the first to admit that forms are inefficient, impractical, contrived. I still practice them for exercise and moving meditation.

how do you wrap your belt? I know 2 ways: 1) put the middle of it at the center of your waist, wrap it around, tie a square knot. in the back it "crosses over". This was the "beginner" way I used for a long time. 2) Put one end (right side for me) in the small of your back, wrap to your left twice, bring out the first part of the wrap for the other tail to tie. This is neat and avoids the crossover in the back. After it's tied, how much do you have dangling- 4", 8", down to your knees ? mine seem to have shrunk over the years....

The origins and histories of so many martial arts always seem cloudy and confused, poorly documented to downright inaccurate. I've seen arguments, political infighting and even deliberate obscuring even with contemporary arts, when many of the people involved are still alive! As a westerner, I've only seen documented history that goes back to the late 19th century (like Kano, Funakoshi, Usehiba), and this is for homogenous, non-obscure arts. I've heard of older texts such as the "Bubishi"., but I have to wonder, how do you find reliable history when documentation is so often non-existent or wrong?

Correct, many techniques work in theory, against an untrained opponent, or against a partner who's not resisting. A common problem with the way people are taught is they learn all kinds of techniques, but they don't practice them "live" against a resisting opponent. This is why, once you learn basics, you have to move on to combinations, lock flows, etc. The other thing is your opponents "energy" and body type. I remember when I was learning a bunch of Hapkido techniques. I tried showing one on my Tai Chi teacher- it was like grabbing a water balloon, didn't work. Likewise my large wristed TSD teacher. Pressure points didn't work on him, either.

I'll stick to adult black belts that didn't quit as soon as they made 1rst dan- they get my respect and admiration because, regardless of style or even particular aptitude, they stuck with it. For myself, the dan ranks I've earned represent achievement milestones in life, and I'd like to think, reflect what kind of person I am.

Run, don't walk, away! They are wasting your time. If you've already been there 4 years (or just training 4 years) you know better. Don't worry about starting over- you know what you know. A new school will give you the equivalent or appropriate rank once you've been there and they can see your skill level. Of course, if you've only been doing 1% kicking and you go to a reputable TKD school, you may find you're more of a beginner than you realize.

Everybody knows if you reduce or stop training, exercise of any kind, you'll get physically out of shape. Sluggish, inflexible, get winded, etc. Then there's the mental/spiritual side, that (supposedly) differentiates martial arts. The self discipline, etc., that controls anger, reactivity, gives us the Zen attitude to handle stress or conflict. You know, the model of the calm old master. Can you get out of shape this way, too? I think so. I still try to stay fit with solo training and other kinds of exercise, but I've neglected the spiritual, at the same time my life has become more stressful. I'm embarrassed to admit, I came to this realization after getting myself into a "road rage" situation precipitated by the irresponsible behavior of a couple of motorcyclists. I should have just "let it go".

I've found it's better not to burn bridges in life. You may find, after trying bjj for a while, you prefer karate. How you handle the transition depends a bit on your teacher. Is he American, does he run the school like a business? Or is he "old school", with traditional attitudes and notions about loyalty? I still remember my instructor telling me after I made 3rd dan, "What you do with it is up to you", and added, if you want to teach, or try a different style, etc. That was really good advice. I did move on, but came back for black belt classes and to share some of the new things I was learning (like Hapkido techniques).