SevenStar

exactly.

are those account online? If not can you tell me what they were?

yeah, that's the advantage of the boxing guard. you get to protect your head, and you have the elbows to protect your mid section. Against boxers and thai boxers, having one hand low will get you hit in the face...alot.

the striking arts kirves has done may very well have grappling tactics, but if it's a striking art, then they don't focus on them. Better grappling training would be received from grappling art.

let's say you and I are training together. we are constantly butting heads and nothing more. Then, you get a notion - "hey, what happens if I use my arm?" and you swing - you invented a punch. Were you the first one ever to punch? probably not. you reinvented the wheel, but that's fine, as there's nobody else to train with. At some point in history, that happened for the first time. We don't instinctively know how to sweep someone. through practice, they figured out how.

whoever found the position useful first. in the case you just mentioned, it would be you. It was still invented though. you were grappling, ended up in that position alot and found that you could do alot with it. Your preoccupation is trying to accredit someone with inventing it. you may never find the exact person. Heck, 23423 people in different areas coulda been training on the same day, at the same time and all found that position useful. Once they add it to their system, they have indeed created a new technique. None of the others know that, so they credit themselves for inventing it. But regardless, it was created.

I see what you were saying in that post - problem is, many people involved in those TMA don't train like that anymore. I'm not knocking the style, but the modern day training ethic (or lack thereof) that's associated with them.

no reason... they've seen the nose thing and emulate it, same way some TMA guys started emulating van damme's "rear hand chambered at the chest, lead hand down by the leg" stance after seeing "Bloodsport". No reason for the thumb to be out either - that's bad form and will get their thumb broken. They also hold their hands high, as if trying to simulate a thai boxer and punch downwards, or at least they do here. There's actually something to that, but It's a safe bet that they don't know that. The thai punches (not the western boxing strikes that have been adopted by many MT guys now) corkscrew downward...triangulation. They get more "oomph" into their punch that way.

kirves - look into judo and shuai chiao.

good post. I agree completely. That was just a caution of what can happen when you use such a stance in close range.

boxing and muay thai. occasionally, the on guard position I was taught in jun fan. Karate has a guard - lead hand in front of the face, rear chambered at the waist.

liu he ba fa shuai chiao xingyi chuan bagua tai tzu baji that's half a dozen - he may have different ones in his list.

considering both of them are "masters" that vid was awful...

It matters. It matters because of the strategy change that's required. The ultimate goal (beating them) remains the same, but your means to do so changes.

you don't think external arts give you a base to be successful? I do. In addition, they teach you how to defend yourself more quickly. Ultimately, on the highest level of MA, they are one and the same anyway, so you'll gain internal as you progress, if you are being taught properly. Also, if you start with internal, it will begin to manifest externally also.

the nature of it... no doubt it's real, but the intention behind it is not one of hostility. Nentheless, what is learned will definitely serve him well in a fight.

getting into the position during a transition to some other technique doesn't mean you invented it. singling it out, figuring out what to do with it, etc. is the actual inception of the technique. same thing goes with your shoulder throw example. At somepoint in time, somebody was exploring ways to off balance a person and throw them to the ground, and they ran across a shoulder throw. That person is credited with creating it, as he discovered it as a useable technique.

not necessarily. MT will carry over very well in the street. And, knowing more techniques, doesn't mean anything...there's already a current thread on that, so I won't get into it here. Also, Kyokushinkai guys are awesome in competition. What about MT do you consider non brutal?

that's not what we mean by resistance. We're speaking in the sense of working your techniques against a resisting partner. however, alot of MA don't do resistance training, in the sense that you are talking about. Stance training doesn't technically count as strength building as the strength gain there will stagnate and stop. Same with pushups and other exercises. Nonetheless, they are still great exercises though.

yeah, but that doesn't translate to actually being able to do it. Before I started judo, I was able to figure out how to do the throws - That wasn't really a problem. Once I started, I checked out throws online, so I knew more than I had actually been shown in class. DOING them in randori / shiai however....different story

I didn't leave out forward - I was thinking that would be implied. If you go either straight forward, or forward and offline, I still know the direction you will go. Even if there is no lead foot, you will still be slower when you move in the direction of the weighted foot, because you have to take the weight off, unless you cross your legs, which is bad for you.

exactly - you're only really mobile to one side, not both. I have a better idea of where you'll go. You guys ever hear of a crossover step? Can be done off either foot to almost any direction on the clock. Only thing you can't do is step straight through your other leg. It's also deceptive- positions you for a twist, back kick, reversing motion, redirection or angling maneuvers. And the foot maneuver itself can be used as either a check or as a weapon. 'Course, you could allways just hop any direction you want, then go ahead and kick. Is this anything like the cross/scissors stance or the stealing step? If so, you have to be careful when doing it and pay close attention to range. Crossing your feet when close to a grappler is bad, as you are begging him to take you down.

That was an excellent post. I think the part I quoted above may have been directed at me though, so I'lll address it: When I say traditional, I mean traditional - mantis, wing chun, mckwoon...doesn't matter. The reason being that the average non competitive MA doesn't train as hard as a competitive MA. You admit that yourself, to an extent. And you're exactly right - what has changed over time is human work ethic, not the style itself. There are too many distractions today - too many other things to do. Couple that with the fact that nowadays, we aren't training because we live and die on a battlefield and you see why we don't train as hard or with the intent that we assume people trained with back in the day. Sport guys do though, because they live and die in their competition. Beause of that, they train hard, every day. go above and beyond every day. As for being "tested" we've got no clue whether or not EVERY style that still exists today has been "tested" all we can do is assume and listen to stories...

right, but I'm replying in context to the fight that TJS mentioned, not to the topic of this thread.