SevenStar

I don't think any one style is best - I actually 'preach' against that all the time. I'm speaking only on the quality of the hands of the boxer, not his overall skill. the only thing a boxer does is punch - he will have better hands than pretty much anyone else from another style. I wasn't trying to come off like I was making this into a style vs style debate - it's easy to get things twisted up like that over the interweb! As for a washed up fighter, the term is relative, really. A washed up tyson is still better than 90% of the world. A washed up lesser skilled fighter however, is an entirely different story.

I drink dr pepper, coke, sprite, sierra mist, mug and mountain dew on occasion, but I get the diet varieties 99% of the time.

1. eat alot 2. lift heavy that is the only way. What is your current lifting program?

based on what you state you are looking for, I would try either jkd or muay thai. It's not that cut and dry though - check out each of the above schools. take a class, talk to the teacher and the students, etc. Choose the school that suits you best.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but just to comment on the thread options, the classifications have been around for awhile, however, deceptive and counter are not considered the same thing. also, there is a fourth category that some use - elusive. tricky counter aggressive elusive

di shu quan

fan tzu, right?

honestly, I think I'd re-evaluate and pick a different goal, as you don't have access to what you need in order to get big. getting big from a weight training stand point is based on two principles 1. lift big to get big - muscles by nature are lazy. you have to make them do something, otherwise they do the minimum to get by. by lifting heavy, you are forcing the muscle fibers to grow and adapt - they have to in order to do the work. 2. the size principle - this ties in with what I said above, really. muscle fibers must be recruited in order to work. if you are lifting light weight, not all of the muscle fibers will be recruited - as I said, they are "lazy" for sub maximal effort, smaller, slow twitch fibers ONLY are recruited. With heavier weight, the fast twitch fibers get recruited. This is when you grow. This is why you can't lift light weights to failure and not gain mass... it just doesn't work that way. If I were you, I'd focus on bodyweight exercises and the few weight bearing exerci8ses that you can do, focusing on being as fit as possible. I wouldn't suggest put a serious effort into gaining mass until you have the proper means to do so.

I can say that because he is a professional boxer for goodness sake. washed up or not, an amateur or non-fighter will not have as well developed hands. I know both sports. however, boxing is NOT a strong point of muay thai. much of the boxing seen was incorporated from western boxing. thais prefer elbows and knees. the punching is different than that of western boxing - they triangulate theirs more - but they do not punch as much, nor do they prefer it, in general. Also, they knock eachother out because they don't move. Watch them fight - you will see very little head movement, very little slipping and ducking, etc. as they don't want to mess around and set themselves up to get kneed. consequently, the head is in the same spot, and they know where to punch. boxers have more head motion and for that reason are harder to score head shots on. their punching has to factor in this head movement, whereas thai training does not. As for MMA, it's no secret that most of them aren't the best strikers around. the big thing with most of them is grappling. even the top strikers in that venue - silva, cro cop, etc. do not have as good hands as tyson.

there aren't a whole lot of thai boxers who do compete in san shou at this time. their biggest appearances are in various kickboxing rule (american, international, thai) competitions and in MMA. It wouldn't be a huge crossover for a thaiboxer though, i'd imagine - just stylistic difference - preference to sidekick over the teep, the distance kept in the clinch, etc. these differences are there for strategic resaons, but can be adapted to. For the pro cma guys, another thing to keep in mind about san shou is that not all of the fighters have trained in strictly traditional cma. some trained at camps geared only towards san shou. others have cross trained in other styles. some, while being pure cma, cross train with guys at the san shou camps.

1. the avg washed up pro boxer still has better striking skills than ANYONE on this forum. 2. the avg washed up pro boxer has better hands than pretty much anyone in k-1 or any mma venue. you can't name one person in either who could out punch tyson now, or in his prime. Tyson would DOMINATE in k-1 if he did it. You are right however, he likely won't do it. Not because "his career is on lifesupport" that's actually an argument FOR him to do it, because it means he's doing whatever he can to get money. However, at this point in time, he can make more money in boxing than k-1 - even if he loses the fight - which is why he will continue to box, as opposed to entering k-1.

heck, baxter humby only has one arm, and he still competes muay thai...

peanut butter is okay as a protein source, but you also have to look at fat content. Not only that, but meat protein is considered to be of better quality when it comes to building muscle.

give me more specifics about the weght training portion of your workout. To get big, you need to lift big. Let's see what you are currently doing, and we'll try to start sorting things from there.

pwerlifters are just that - powerlifters. They don't pay as strict attention to diet as say, bodybuilders, because they aren't getting paid to look pretty. They get paid to lift stuff... lots of stuff. Naturally, a bigger person has the potential to be stronger than a smaller person, as they have more mass. However, I don't think that means a fat person who weighs 230 will be stronger than a fit person who weighs 230. The fat will be a detriment...

Not good. You need to eat at least three times. no it's not. eat cheap. salmon and tuna are loaded with protein, and they are always cheap in the grocery store. Stock up on both. you don't have to eat 6 full meals, you just want small snacks to keep the metabolism high. One thing you can do is substitute it with protein shakes. So, have breakfast, lunch and dinner, and then have a midmorning shake and a shake in the afternoon. at night, have something small and healthy like fruit. That is 6 small meals. FWIW, you can gain mass off of three meals per day. the point behind six is that is keeps the metabolism higher. when the metabolism is boosted, you burn more fat. It also redulces your chances of gorging. Not really... muscle is built, not created - especially in your case... you sound ectomorphic - what bodybuilders call "hard gainers" you can put on weight, but you must eat. and lift. alot. and even still, it will be hard. What is your current workout schedule?

those are good points. In response to the first, going to the ground DID happen. The japanese recognized that, and realized that when it did happen, they needed to be able to get up efficiently, that way they would not get stabbed, trampled, etc. The only way to learn this is via groundwork. My guess is that that is why they added it. The chinese have thought (from what I've heard, anyway) that fighing on the ground is considered a disgrace. If this is true, that would be why you see such a lack of it in their styles. There is at least one ground oriented chinese style though - fukien dog boxing. As for noat wanting to go to the ground in real life against multiple attackers, there are alot of factors there. 1. you may not have a choice. if you do go down, you need to know how to get back up. 2. people stumble and fall, as you said. it's not only untrained people though, as there are obtacles, wet floors, etc. you can slip on and trip over. in addition, if you opponent is untrained and falls into you, you are now in a clinch - grappling range. It may or may not go down from there 3. ALOT of people wrestled in high school - at least in the US. why would you want to take the chance of running into someone who may have some type of ground training?

Nah, it's not new, but it's not the norm either. I think what he's getting at is that he'd like to see ALL cma schools go this route. He is registered on the kung fu magazine forums and has been posting on a thread I started about it over there.

That's what I was going to suggest. You won't survive if you can't use your jab, so it would be best to work having your left side forward. Other than that, yeah, definitely stick with it.

When are we gonna be able to delete posts?

usagi yojimbo - cool name - he was my favorite ninja turtles character when I was a kid!

In this month's issue of kung fu/qigong magazine, there is an article about getting CMA schools to support san shou and promote san shou training within their school. His suggestion to setting up a curriculum was basically to do the following: pick 5 punching techniques from your style pick 3 kicking techniques pick 3 throwing techniques He says to combine that with conditioning and drilling, making those few techniques second nature....the person who does one technique 1,000 times is better off than the person who does 1,000 techniques one time... so, simplicity is key here. He goes on to say that you can still retain the essence of your style, even with the gloves and limited techniques. This is what will keep san shou varied. Overall, it sounds like they are on to something - I hope that it catches on with all schools. Has anyone else seen this article yet?

understandable. But unless your timing is impeccable, you will have to block at some point. However, seeing as you don't like blocking, another thing we will do is step in and knee the kicking leg. so, instead of blocking at his shin, I am kneeing him. If you do that though, you will have to be ready to clinch or punch immediately, as you will be right on eachother after the knee. Also, you train vt... so you do parries and limb checks, correct? a pak sao to the limb as/after it's been intercepted or redirected? that's not necessarily destructive. some people use gan sau to block kicks... not destructive either it will be faster, but may not land first. mathematics doesn't take the timing of the other person into it's equation. Also, don't forget that a "low thai kick" doesn't have to mean a roundhouse - it could be a teep, which is linear. depending on the thai boxer and who trained him, it may also be a sidekick.

the shin block is definitely not the only way. if you see the kick coming, a straight line attack (as someone mentioned above) can work well. you can teep to his midsection, or to the upper thigh of the kicking leg. You can also nail him with a cross. Another tactic is the cut kick. This is when you kick the supporting leg of the opponent while he is kicking. So, he kicks. As he kicks, you launch a roundhouse of your own, right to his supporting leg. this has a couple of advantages: 1. it lessens the blow to you, as you are turning away from his kick 2. you are attacking his support leg, hopefully knocking him down, but at the least compromising his balance.

blocking low kicks doesn't hurt when done right and when properly conditioned. that is something that comes in time. kicks to the groin aren't necessarily the best way to go. I've shrugged them off and know others who have done the same. In my case, I didn't feel it until after the fight was done.