Prototype

That's Hwang Kee circa 1950s. The style has developed since then. It's like comparing Gichin Funakoshi to today's average blackbelt. If we're talking about whether there is value in holding two blackbelts today, better to look at how the current style teaches and moves and compare what the average student is doing today as that's what they'll be learning and practising. ¨Regardless, you think having ones shoulder higher or lower (for example) when performing kata justifies spending time getting a second black belt? As for Gishin Funakoshis Karate-Do, the reason we can't compare it to todays Shotokan is because his son, Gigo, made fundamental changes to the art. No person after Hwang Kee made fundamental changes to Tang Soo Do, that I know of,

Better to compare with this old footage of skilled TSD black belt.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5DOGKO4qvo

The only difference I know of is greater hip rotation in the korean version of mawashi geri, at the cost of speed. This was also carried over to traditional TaeKwonDo, since TSD instructors were recruited to pass on their knowledge to the first generation TKD students Bassai Hyung as done by TSD: Bassai Dai as done by Shotokan: Ignoring the differences in individual skill level, there are definite differences in how the moves are done. for example look at the start position or ready position for these blocks (chudan uke / kaunde makgi). In TSD its a full crossover right around the body with the blocking fist pointing behind at the start of the movement, in Shotokan it is a much shorter movement with the arms crossing lower in and x-shape (it's probably best to slow the videos down to half speed to see) TSD kaunde makgi: Shotokan chudan uke: There are further stylistic differences all the way through. I don't think it's meaningful to draw conclusions based on an amateurs clip on YouTube. He may very well perform incorrectly.

The information may be dated but Michael Jai White is at least a 3rd dan in Shotokan.

There are fundamental differences in everything including stance and bodymechanics. Different arts at this point. WTF guys for instance chamber roundhouses as a front kick, then switch over, and strike with the ball of the foot. ITF kicks are the same as Tang Soo Do kicks - Shotokan roots, but with more hip rotation to them. Strike surface is ball of the foot (although we drill instep from time to time). WTF blocks by and large are still Shotokan, ITFs are not. A downward block in WTF is a shotokan block, a downward block in ITF, the elbow is bent, and the closed fingers pointing towards you. The WTF/shotokan downward block - the elbow is straight down and closed fingers point to the ground.

It is a bit suspect, this belt collecting. He's even a black belt in both ITF (old school style) and WTF (modern Olympic style) of TaeKwonDo which surprised me even more given all his other styles. To find time for all of this! A black belt in Shotokan, Goju Ryu and Kyokushin take 5 years respectively, no? He trained them all simultaneously?

The only difference I know of is greater hip rotation in the korean version of mawashi geri, at the cost of speed. This was also carried over to traditional TaeKwonDo, since TSD instructors were recruited to pass on their knowledge to the first generation TKD students

Here Michael states his black belts:

Never quite understood the point of holding black belts in a korean version of the other art. The katas in TSD are Shotokan (except for a few kung fu ones). What exactly does the other art add to ones experience? I know actor Michael Jai White is a black belt in both.

In terms of applying stances in bunkai and I can only speak for myself (obviously ), I think the use of stances in Karate as a whole is greatly misunderstood. I refer you to two quotes. First from from Gichin Funakoshi's nijukun (20 precepts): - "Kamae wa shoshinsha ni ato wa shizentai" (fixed positions are for beginners. Later, one moves naturally) and secondly from Genwa Nakasone on his understanding of the above precept: - "Karate has many stances; it also has none. Leigh If that's the case then why are the stances the same for one step sparring demonstrations between masters? And why aren't the higher level Katas with different stances?

High side in both Juche and Moon-Moo I guess it depends on how you define High. The encyclopedia states high but the performers look more like middle section turning kick in Hwa rang. http://www.swanma.com/Lib/TKD/FullEnc/Vol10/#p=174 Not sure which ITF or instructor you are with but high is defined as above the shoulder line. High means high. If you have the ability, both the side kids in Juche and Moon Moo must be performed like this. You would be marked down at gradings and tournaments for anything lower and would be expected to know that they are written as nopunde. Did you not take the few seconds to actually watch the photo in the encyclopedia? The performer did not kick above his own shoulder level.

High turning kicks (both legs) is in Hwa-Rang at 2nd gup. Then at every grade above that there is at least one pattern per grade that has a high side or high turning kick. That said I wouldn't sweat it. I've been doing ITF TKD for 16 years now... still struggle with my flexibility with high roundhouses being particularly difficult for me. Instructors will prefer good mechanics over reaching too high for a kick and should make allowances for ability. As long as you know it should be high section by the book, you can perform at a low level with correct mechanics. Only way to improve it is stretch, build strength, and learn the correct mechanics: I don't think there is high side kick in any form. People do it only to brag that they can. High side in both Juche and Moon-Moo I guess it depends on how you define High. The encyclopedia states high but the performers look more like middle section turning kick in Hwa rang. http://www.swanma.com/Lib/TKD/FullEnc/Vol10/#p=174

That's a separate thing since boxing is a sport in which no kicking is allowed. You can't fight in a boxing stance for Muay Thai or you will get put on your butt by low kicks. The point of Karate was for self defence, and I don't think the stances for punches make much sense.

In the Kata that is..It does not reflect how I or any assailant would attack with a punch. Ones body would never be positioned in that way, so why do we train in it? The same when applied in bunkai. Anybody knows?

I suffer from the same affliction. I can front and crescent kick to the head just fine. I struggle to get roundhouse and side kick above belt level. Focus more on stretching the ignored muscles such as gluteus minimus and maximus, tensor fascia latae, piriformis, psoas. Most people have no idea what most of them are, let alone how to stretch them. A little Google-Fu helps a lot. Groin stretching is also important. Most people who don't stretch it right lean too far forward to support their weight when stretch it. The more upright, the better. I showed pretty good gains by routinely doing the "frog stretch." Basically a groin stretch by being on the elbows and spreading your legs with your weight on your knees. It's a yoga stretch, but it may have other names. Google search it. It could also be hip abductor weakness, as LLLearner was saying. Google. It's rarely one thing, and almost always a combination of many things. Isn't there a great risk that I will do permanent damage to my knees with some of these stretching excercises? S

High turning kicks (both legs) is in Hwa-Rang at 2nd gup. Then at every grade above that there is at least one pattern per grade that has a high side or high turning kick. That said I wouldn't sweat it. I've been doing ITF TKD for 16 years now... still struggle with my flexibility with high roundhouses being particularly difficult for me. Instructors will prefer good mechanics over reaching too high for a kick and should make allowances for ability. As long as you know it should be high section by the book, you can perform at a low level with correct mechanics. Only way to improve it is stretch, build strength, and learn the correct mechanics: I don't think there is high side kick in any form. People do it only to brag that they can.

Nah, midsection kicks will simply be grabbed.

I can do rising kick straight, head level, axe kick, Crescent kick, but not roundhouse or sidekick... My style is ITF Taekwon-Do - Korean karate. That is to say emphasis on kicks but all the hand techniques (plus some) from Shotokan. I don't know if roundhouse kick is head level in any form but even if it isn't, it's still pretty alarming that I can't perform it head high correctly after two years.

I feel like a failure. Blue belt and 2 years of dedicated training, fullY aware of the proper mechanics, nice explosiveness, and still... I can only hold it extended for like 1 second, midsection.

Despite training for 2 years and putting all the stretching hours in, I am still only able to perform correct mawashi geris at midsection. I had a buddy of mine film me and as soon as I went for head level my leg gets bent. I am 27 years of age, had the exact same flexibility problems with my hips when I started training age 15 and then layed off. I know the proper mechanics but my hips just aren't flexible enough beyond a very limited point. Am a legit karateka if I can only perform techniques correctly at midsection in your opinion? This question relates to forms only.

Yeah but the heart and soul of boxing is sparring. If you don't spar, you don't know boxing.

I have taken all your advice in mind and will start tommorow. Are there people who stay in boxings gym for years and train it as a martial art or is it too tough on you in the long run? I want it both ways, to be trained as a fighter but not recieve too much damage in the process, hopefully by being good at it. I will never compete.

I thought it was common knowledge that American kickboxing failed to make the best of both arts and that the boxing was/is vastly inferior to develop good hands. I mean the rules had to be changed to mandatory kicking per round because standard boxers entered and dominated early kickboxing events. I will always put my money on a western boxer under american Kickboxing rules, all else equal. They will cut the distance and be superior in-fighters.

How long does it take on average to develop into a decent boxer if I have potential? By decent I mean that I can at least hang with pretty good guys.

Well; I can only offer a few tips: 1. Keep jabbing; offence will be your best defence as you have not learnt how to bob and weave. 2. In boxing it is always feet first, followed by the hands. Beware leading yourself with your hands. 3. Start with a tight guard; the Peek-a-Boo style. It might feel unnatural coming from a kick-boxing background, but you will need a strong guard without the evasion skills. 4. Keep your elbows in; in kick-boxing or free-fighting you want a looser and more relaxed guard to absorb kicks, or work the clinch range. In boxing you want the elbows in to guard against body blows. Saying all that, however, I do not think you will be thrown into sparring so soon as to need any of that advice. I would hope they would give you at least a few weeks to learn the ropes before setting you up against someone. Your experience should at least make you familiar with the issues of adrenaline, and also given you hand speed and power. So you will easily be in advance of an absolute beginner; my only concern is that you have no head movement knowledge beside what you have learnt through sparring. Otherwise, good luck, and hope you enjoy it. Thanks. My only defensive strategy in kickboxing has been leaning away from punches, and, of course, putting my hands up, but I lack creativity due to our sparring format which did not allow combinations more than 2 straight punches in a row. My handspeed is quite high due to fast muscle fiber and I have a decent Jab, at least compared to the kickboxing guys. Really hard to say how good my reflexes are against a boxer!