MatsuShinshii

Hohan Soken Shinshii, Yuichi Kuda Sensei, Kosei Nishihira Shinshii, Shoshin Nagamine O'Sensei, Shinpo Matayoshi Sensei, Shigeru Nakamura Sensei and Morio Higaonna Sensei.

Shotokannon, You can do just about anything you want to in this country. However it is solely up to your organization whether they will give you their blessing to open a Dojo. In our organization you are not considered a Shinshii/Sensei (Teacher) until you reach the rank of Sandan. This is due to the experience and knowledge factor. However my first Karate instructor was an Ikkyu (Brown Belt) and was knowledgeable enough to teach, however not a lot of the guys coming back from over sea's were Sandan so most opened schools at Ikkyu or Shodan and this was acceptable back then. If you do not gain the blessing of the organization in our style you can not use the name and you have no backing. Meaning your students ranks will be signed and certified only by you and not backed by your style/organization. This can be a tad tricky if your students ever decide to transfer to another Dojo and their rank is not accepted. If your style/art allows you to teach at Ikkyu or Shodan and will back you then go for it. If not you may want to inquire at what point they would allow you to teach. If having their backing and being able to use their rank certificates, name, patches, etc., etc. doesn't bother you then strike out on your own and teach. No one can tell you that you are not allowed to teach at any rank as long as you understand the ramifications of your decision. I personally would be concerned to see a Shodan as the CI of a Dojo but I am old school and to be honest old, so my opinion may be a little old fashioned.

I appreciate the explanation Sensei8. Sounds like you had good reasons to create your by laws. Ours are not that different. We tell our Hombu who will be on the next testing cycle and include their present rank, time in rank and a breif description of their improvement for Dan ranks. Our certificates are similar to yours. The original certificates that I received were done by hand and now they are done via computer. It takes 3 senior Dan to promote a Yudansha. My signature and two witness signatures are on the certificates (original and copy). These are then sent to the Hombu along with a video of the testing as proof. They are then stamped. The inkan goes across the original, log book and copy. The original has 1/3 of the stamp at the top of the certificate, a third (middle) is on the log book next to their name, rank, date, and promoting Shinshii, and the last 1/3rd is on the bottom of the copy. The copy stays at the Hombu and the original is sent back to the instructor. The student may test in January and not receive his certificate until February but it is usually a faster process only taking around two weeks. Oh and I forgot, Soke's stamp is placed above the three signing Shinshii's stamp as proof of approval. This may have come about due to similar circumstances but it's been this way for as long as I have been studying the art. Because of this I think the trust factor is covered because if your name, date, rank, and instructor is not present in the log book the certificate is not recognized by the association.

First let me say that the following in no way is directed towards you or anyone else here. Being new to the forums I do not know any of you and it is not my intention to dishonor or say anything against any of you. The following is my issue with the direction of the art I have studied and loved for more than 3/4 of my life. I realize how my statement might have brought you to this conclusion. It's true that I have a full time job and teach for the love of teaching and not to make money. In fact I only charge students to pay the organization it's fare share and to cover rent. I am a "purest" if that means I strictly teach the art as it was taught to me. I do believe that the founders had the right idea when they formulated the arts and that it was based on what worked in combat and on self preservation. Having said that I have studied several arts just like you in the pursuit of as much knowledge and skill as I can compile to make myself a better martial artist. I realized after years of study that all that I searched for was contained within the Kata. So in some sense I am a purest as I have decided to put all of my efforts into one art and extract the benefits and knowledge contained with in. I do not hold anything against those that teach to make a living. I have had several instructors that did just that and I respect them immensely. I also do not have issues with those that try to loosen things up once in a while to keep it fun for their students. I realize that many teach kids and in order to maintain and foster their passion for the art it is necessary to mix things up. I personally do not teach anyone under the age of 16 but this is a tradition in my art that I have chosen to follow where others do not. This is my personal feelings and do not put them on others that teach the art. The issue I have with "Modern" instructors of what we all call McDojo's is that they chase the all mighty dollar at the detriment of their art and students and to those that came before them. When you change a Kata, and thus loose the Bunkai, to make it more flashy to win tournaments you have changed the entire art and lost all effectiveness. Not many Modern Instructors know their Bunkai and others practice a bastardized version of it made up by them or their instructor because at some point they pulled away from the old ways in favor of modern ways that attract those students that their instructor wouldn't have wanted when they were teaching. I can't stand that their expectations have been lowered to an extent that Shodan is "just another rank" and no grade really means anything. It's the whole "trophy for everyone, just show up" methodology. The fact that Kumite and the way it is practiced has turned into just a game of patty cakes. This does not teach students to defend themselves nor does it lend any credit to the art that was passed down to the instructor. "Great you received a trophy on Saturday and got pounded on the streets on Monday because you have no clue how to really defend yourself", does this make sense to anyone? I was taught that I was a reflection of my instructor and those that came before me. A belt was never for sale and you earned what you received. You can call me old fashioned or stuck in time, but I feel that changing the intent, no the soul of the art that was passed down to us to placate a few more paying students is what is destroying the art and turning it into just another after school program. I mean no disrespect towards instructors that make things fun but maintain the integrity of their art and the requirements of said art. If you teach younger students this is almost mandatory. I also have no issues with an instructor that teaches the art but infuses fun elements to keep their students interested and maintain the passion for the art. Having said that I have no respect for the charlatans that claim they are teaching Karate but at the same time have changed the art to benefit the few and to win trophies. Essentially turning their back on those that thought enough of them to pass the art down to them and expecting that they would teach the art with integrity by maintaining the teachings and intent of the art. I think it is very sad that many so called "Masters" have no idea what Torite (Tuite), Tegumi, and Kyusho are and have no idea that they are contained with in the Kata (Bunkai). Most have no idea what their history is and have no idea that their art is NOT Japanese or that their art originated from a mixture of several arts that include Siamese, Chinese, and the original Okinawan art of Ti/Di to name a few and where put together to create what we now consider Karate. Without the ties to their roots and an understanding of the original intent of their art, they are not teaching Karate. Most have lost the old ways/techniques because they are not safe to use in tournaments. They have no idea how to use Tsukimasaki or even what it is. They have no idea what transitional stances in Kata actually represent and most could care less. How then does the art get passed on if all that is taught is how to score a point or how to make the judges weep by executing a useless triple back flip into a powerless double side kick? How does an art survive when their so called black belts get beat up by the kids hanging out down the block because all they have ever been taught is this crap? This is why prospective students are flocking towards the MMA gyms instead of towards the Karate Dojo's. There is my 2 cents on the subject.

IMHO this is the absolute worst thing to happen to Karate. It's bad enough that what we all call McDojo's have removed all of what traditionalists consider Karate (Kata have been modified to look good and have incorporated high flashy kicks and backflips, Kumite is replaced with patty cake and bunkai is non-existant). I often laugh when I hear other instructors (who I consider McDojo's) complain about MMA stealing their students but do not realize that they are the reason students do not consider Karate a viable art of self defense. Instead they see it as a sport. Students join other arts to learn techniques found within their own bunkai because their instructor has removed the Jutsu and replace it with a sport. Karate in the Olympics further confirms this ideal in the minds of the public. I get so sick of an art I love and have spent over 3/4 of my life devoted to being diminished and "modernized" to fit into a fast food society. Now schools and whole arts will alter their teaching methods to fit into the mold of the Olympics instead of maintaining the art they were taught. I'm sure a lot of instructors are happy that this has happened but as for me I see this as a detriment and degradation to an art I love and respect. I see this as a slap to our founders face as this was never meant to be a sport but as a way to defend. I'm sure my views will not be popular but I am a traditionalist who has a hard time with Kata that do not teach you to fight and Kumite that teaches you how to be fast and tricky but does not lend itself to real world applications. Most "Modern" arts have lost any true understanding of their arts true intent. This will only pull them away further from that intent.

Sensei8, Forgive my ignorance and please take no offense but I do not understand why a students instructor isn't in control of when their students test. I can understand the Hombu having a hand in the test results, as far as oversight, but to say yes or no to a student that they may not have seen and certainly do not see on a weekly basis is very confusing to me. I am in complete control of my students and when they test or do not test. However any student testing for Yudansha ranks are tested by at least three senior ranks and at least two ranks above the students rank. These tests are video taped and sent to the Hombu for verification purposes only. In the 36+ years I have studied I have only seen one student get denied rank due to the Hombu not agreeing with the instructor. All instructors are of the same mind set that we are in the business of producing the best Karateka possible and only test when we feel that they are ready. The only other time our Hombu gets involved is when we have a student that is testing for rank close to ours. I am a Rokudan and can test to Yondan without Hombu intervention. However if I feel that a student is ready to test for Godan or Rokudan they must travel to the Hombu to be tested by the board of promotions. No disrespect, and I'm sure I do not have the whole story, but it seems that your Hombu doesn't grant much trust in their instrcuctors to tell them when a student is ready to test. Not to mention that it is quite unfair to leave the responsibility of a students capability in the hands of people that may only see this student on a few occasions. In our case it may be years as I am 4 states away.

The answer is yes and no. Typically now a days you will see the short spear "Rochin" utilized. However the original "sword" was very much like the Chinese Dao. The Okinawans where heavily influenced by the Chinese and thus along with the empty hand arts "Quan Fa" they also were influenced by the weapons arts "Buki-gwa". You may see the Tinbe paired with these weapons or anything from a knife to a machette like short sword or even a full length spear. However most common is the Rochin.

Yes, once. One of my students came from and was still learning Hapkido. He asked me to join him for a seminar that the Grand Master was giving. I decided to go with him and gave him money to buy my ticket. He had shown me techniques and I found that they had similarities with Tuite (Chin-Na/Qin-Na) that we teach so I was intrigued. Long story short I was paired up with one of his senior students and was more than able to handle my own. At the end of the seminar they called all who were in attendance to receive a certificate stating that they had taken the seminar. When he came to me he handed me the certificate and asked me to stay after because he wished to speak to me. I did so and he started by asking me why an Okinawan practitioner would come to his seminar. I explained that the young man waiting for me was one of my students and he had invited me. Then he went over to the table and picked up a paper and returned and presented me with a 5th degree certificate in Hapkido. I respectfully declined and explained that although some of our techniques where similar I had never taken a day of Hapkido and could not in good conscience accept. Needless to say I was never invited back.

There is no such belt on Okinawa. Most traditional Okinawan schools wear the black belt. If they have received their Renshi teaching license they put 1 gold tag on their belt. Kyoshi 2 gold tags and Hanshi 3 gold tags. The Kyoshi obi or what you refer to the candy strip belt and Hanshi obi is used but if the organization chooses to utilize this there is no special belt for Renshi. This is a American/Modern belt that holds no place on Okinawa.

I could not agree with you more. We do not charge a Deshi to test. I have not paid for a test since I started with my main art 36+ years ago. My Shinshii always felt that you pay for his instruction but never for what you have earned. I along with all others in our organization, we still maintain this policy. I was in disbelief when I took up a new art and got charged to test for Hachikyu. I don't have a problem with it per say because I know a lot of instructors make their living this way. But I must say I agree with my Shinshii's policy that you should not pay for something that you have earned. I don't charge for rank. The student earns it.

By "pass black belt", I'm assuming that you mean, pass Shodan, and if so, in that regards, I suppose that it doesn't! And it's just me, but, knowing that there's more to learn beyond Shodan, and forget about rank, I surely want to learn more...and more...and more... The Pred, I don't understand your point. Do you have Shodan teaching in your style? We can not teach until the rank of Sandan and can not open a Dojo until the rank of Yondan. Shodan is not considered an instructor rank. Nidan can assist but not teach on their own. Sensei8, couldn't agree more. Always learning.

Sensei8, I understand your point of view and it does seem somewhat the same in some respects. I was approached by my Shinshii (He never took a title such as Soke, Kaicho, etc.) about stepping up when his first and second in line turned him down as I am the third highest rank and actually senior to the second in line in time. Being only a Rokudan and not had the time I felt was needed to assume a role like this, I also turned him down. Later I regretted this decision as we ended up loosing most of our student and instructor body. Some just went independent and others joined other organizations. Eventually I accepted a different role as Soshi instead of Soke in order to rebuild and stop the blood letting. At no time did I feel worthy of the position and was quite relieved when Shinshii's first and second in line came back. Neither took on the role of head of organization but rather split the responsibility across 8 members of our current board. It is a shame that it took so long for any of us to step up to the plate for the sake of the student body and it cost the organization dearly in membership. We actually lost a lot of instructors that I truly respected for their skill, knowledge and dedication. If you are a Kudan, you have our highest rank as we do not use Judan. This rank is reserved for our Soke and as such we do not presently have anyone holding this rank. However, and more to the point, you are able to promote all Kodansha with out witness signatures. You could do this alone if you so chose based on our traditions. Obviously you can not stand in for all board positions but this also does not mean that you necessarily have to have Kodansha sitting on your board. They would derive the power to implement and amend with you approval. This may be uncomfortable for the hierarchy that turned down the positions, having lower ranks running the organization under your direction and leadership, however this may be just the kick in the tush that they need to step up. If they don't you have still stalled the exodus and saved the organization. If you are 10k strong, wow by the way, you must have enough Godan/Rokudan that someone would be willing to stand in for the sake of the membership body. According to tradition your rank and position as president is all the power you need to save the organization. No one said it must stay this way but sometimes you have to do what you must, even if that means going against tradition, to do what's best for your students/organization. You can always return back to the board led format once some step up. You have to follow your heart and do what you think is best. However I would hate to see anyone go through the utter turmoil that we did. It all but destroyed what our Shinshii had spent a life time building. Not a very honorable tribute to him. I'm sure you feel the same way about your Soke.

Sensei8, First my deepest condolences. My organization has gone thru this similar type of thing twice. Our Soke died in 1999. When this happened the organization was in ruins as our Sensei did not bow down to the new leadership based on ideological disputes. We'll just say he was VERY traditional and the new leadership sought to modernize. Being a Hachidan and holding the Hanshi teaching license he decided to create his own organization. During this time membership fell to record lows and the only thing left was my Shinshii and a hand full of Mudansha, Yudansha and one Kodansha. In 2014 he fell ill and decided to move to Okinawa where his wife was born and still had some family left. At the age of 85 he decided to retire. I did not know such a thing could ever happen but it did. His next in line refused to take the reins. He offered it to his second in line and then finally to all board members. All refused thinking he would just continue but from his home in Okinawa. This was not to pass. Essentially we spent 8 months fighting amongst each other. No one felt that they were worthy of taking the reins and student membership dropped to an all time low. His first and second in line left and joined another organization and four of our board members left as well, leaving myself and two other instructors as the senior membership. One Rokudan and two Godans. The membership called me a short time later and asked if I would along with the other two senior members step up and run things until a new board could be established. It took a year and a half before things got back to normal and the blood letting stopped. We have never elected a new head but his first in line did return to give us a Hachidan that could lend legitimacy to Yudansha and Kodansha promotions. We essentially operate under a board of elected members without a head of organization. We do however have a president (Kaicho). Our second in line returned just 3 months ago and we are starting to see progress in the right direction. My advice is find at least three senior Dan grades willing to step up and carry on the organization until others will do the same. I am un-familiar with your style but if it's Okinawan or Japanese in foundation it only take three Kodansha to promote senior ranks. Meaning ranks above Godan. If you are the Kaicho I would imagine you hold at minimum the rank of Hachidan and hold a Hanshi license. Do what ever it takes to keep things going or you might find out that all is gone before you have a chance to do anything about it. We dropped membership from 856 to 149 in 8 months. We dropped a further 38 in the year an a half it took to get our act together. Our problem was none of the membership felt worthy to step up and take the reins. By the time some of us finally stepped up our organization was all but diminished. There are some organizations that are solely run by one person with two or three subordinates. If you have three or more willing and have at least the rank of Godan, run with it until you convince others to step up. Don't travel the road we did. Good luck.

I can not answer this question as I have spent most of my 36+ years in Okinawan arts. We do use titles but they are much more informal as most instructors are referred to as Shinshii or Sensei. Even Kodansha are addressed as Shinshii and Sensei per their request. I can tell you that our licenses are not dictated upon rank in our art. You do not automatically receive your Renshi teaching license upon being awarded Godan. You may not be awarded this license until Rokudan or you may be awarded this license at Yondan. It solely depends on your skills, knowledge and proficiency as a teacher. However they do somewhat correspond as you do not reach a specific rank unless you have the skills to teach. Basically if you do not have the necessary abilities to be awarded Renshi you are not going to be promoted to the rank of Rokudan until you do.

I also utilize the same method when writing official letters as is customary. John Doe, Shinshii Renshi, Rokudan I was more talking about Modern instructors referring to themselves as Shidoin, Renshi, Kyoshi and Hanshi when introducing themselves. Its one thing to write a letter and include your credentials and another when you are using your license as a title. We have the following titles but have certain etiquette's about how and when they are used. Shinshii or Sensei is used to describe anyone that has been granted the ability and proven skills to teach (typically Sandan or Yondan) under the organization. Students and others should refer to the instructor using this title. Shihan is used to describe anyone that has students that are instructors and have met the organizations requirements as a expert instructor (meaning that they know, understand, and can proficiently pass on all techniques of the art to include all Kata and their Bunkai [Tuite, Tegumi, and Kyusho] techniques) Is referred to by the students of ones students but never referred to oneself as Shihan. Rather we opt to refer to ourselves as Shinshii or Sensei. Kaicho. This is a title that can and should be used to refer to yourself as it is a position within the organization. Soke. Again this is a title that can and should be used to refer to oneself as this is denoting the position as head of the organization/art. Renshi, Kyoshi and Hanshi on the other hand are to denote the instructors teaching level and not a position or title. Agin no disrespect meant. This is how I have been taught and this is how we utilize these titles/license/positions in our art.

I am new to the forums. One of my students told me I should check it out and I have surfed for about a month before joining. I am a traditional Karateka and although I have heard Modern Dojo utilize some of these as titles, they are not. At least not in the traditional sense. Renshi, Kyoshi and Hanshi are teaching licenses and should not be used to refer to oneself. This is akin to calling your self drivers license George. I mean no disrespect to those that utilize Renshi, Kyoshi, Hanshi and even Shidoin as titles but this is not traditional nor an actual title. On Okinawa instructors refer to themselves as Shinshii or Sensei and sometimes Shihan or Kaicho but never by their teaching licenses. The one exception would be Hanshi. I do know of two high ranking instructors on Okinawa that use Hanshi as a title. Sensei, Shinshii, Shihan, O'Sensei, Soke, Kaicho, etc. are titles. Again no disrespect.