MatsuShinshii

In most cases I would agree with your statements however there are Karate (Family) styles in Okinawa that are not shared with the public. Remember that all of the styles we know today were not readily available outside of Okinawa until the 50 and 60's and there are styles that were not taught to outsiders until the last 20-30 years. I would agree that most "styles" are well known today or at least someone has made mention of them either in books, magazines or on the net, but that does not mean that every family style is readily available to the public or even known. I remember the first time I had ever heard the name Pangai-noon when I was a kid. I thought that I knew every style of Karate ever invented and low and behold here was a very old style I had never heard of before. It is possible that there are yet still arts that are not shared with the public due to the transmission only to family or are small enough or not as popular that it doesn't get much attention. Do I think there is such a thing as a style of Karate based on a cartoon? No. Conditioning of the fingers and toes are as old as Karate is and targeting vital points is even older. They definitely have not cornered the market on originality. Most call this Kyusho.

Great accomplishment. Congrats to him.

It would not make much sense to open a Dojo across the street from your Hombu or even another Dojo. For one it splits the amount of students and two it puts two instructors under the same organization in direct competition with each other. My personal opinion is not less than 10 miles or at the very least in different towns. There would be only one reason I could think of for opening a dojo across the street from your Hombu, and that would be if the Hombu was more of an office/headquarters and the Dojo across the street was used for testing, teaching, etc. Other than that why would you do it?

First off congratulations on all of your success because it sounds like you have really put in the work and succeeded in many ways. Those are great numbers for those circumstances. I agree with the things you are saying but objectively speaking I have had locations that were in great areas do poorly and I have had crappy locations do well. I think that it's certainly possible to teach in your backyard or garage or wherever and be successful but I think it is misleading To simply call out those numbers under those circumstances because in most cases it is a lot harder to pull people than it sounds. Adults these age in many ways are really not geared towards traditional martial arts so depending on what you teach can depend on how well you do it first. Kickboxing and jujitsu really have a hold of the adults and what seems cool to do so traditional martial arts are really turning into something to teach the kids discipline and so on. As with anything it's always about a little bit of luck and how you market yourself. From the standpoint of risk and things of that nature renting your own space can simply be a lot more rest and some of these other ways though which was kind of my point. In my dojo if I did not maintain a certain amount of students I could not pay the rent, at the recreation center if I do not maintain a certain amount of students I simply cannot pay my bills but there's a big difference because it means I go out and get a different job or A second job but the recreation center business does not go out of business because of low numbers unless I choose to walk away. I understand your point. I don't agree with Traditional arts being something only for kids and adults not being geared for it. I do not teach kids under the age of 16. Just my personal issue. I teach Matsumura Shorin Ryu (or what my organization now calls Matsumura Suidi) and only have adults attending classes. My youngest student is 28 years old. I think the issue is how you teach traditional arts or what most think is traditional arts based on their definition. We teach the old ways. What was taught before Japan took over most arts and the way they are taught. Most teach the "Do" and we still teach both the "Jutsu" and the "Do". Having said this, the main difference that I have seen is that we still teach the old ways. We pass on to our students Torite, Tegumi, Kyusho (not the Dillman Kyusho/Tuite but what was handed down) and we teach this in conjunction with the Kata and not as a separate component. Our students learn the real world applications of which are contained within the Kata itself. I have found that this interests most adults because they are looking for not only a way to stay in shape but more importantly to defend themselves. They find that most of what can be found within the popular arts now a days is contained within Karate. I appreciate the fact that not every location is agreeable and depending on where you live dictates how you market your art and how you teach it to be able to draw in new students. However IMHO I have always found that the art itself is the best marketing tool that we have. I show them and allow them to see what they will be taught and it pretty much does the trick for me. Of course I am not dependent on a certain number of students as I have a full time occupation and do not need the additional income that more students present to the full time instructor. I merely point out that the location is not what sells. What sells is your knowledge and your passion for the art. You are what pulls in the students and makes them want to stay irregardless of where you teach. If the quality of instruction is good the location can be crappy and your students will keep coming back. And the fact that I do not need a certain number of students does not escape me. I realize that numbers dictate whether a Dojo's doors stay open or close. This is the reason that I choose to not rent until I had an ample number of students to maintain the rent. I am not sure how I would fair if my income was dependent upon a certain number of students. I don't claim to be in your shoes. Having said that I still firmly believe that to sell yourself and the knowledge and skill that you have obtained and can pass on is more important to students than the location in which they learn. I may be wrong and our opinions come from our personal experiences so in no way am I diminishing yours. I wish you luck and know you'll find your success. Best wishes.

I took a few days to mull over this and decide what to do and how to address this. I did handle this personally and decided to confront him about this and ask for an explanation and reason. I first asked our chairman for his contact info and spoke with him personally and notified him of what I had personally found and read with my own eyes. I then gave him a choice; to confront the board with this information and accept what ever they deemed as a fitting ruling or I would personally deal with the matter. I explained that I had already spoken with our chairman of the board and informed him of what I had found and that someone (I did not give him the name at that time) would either call him to confess these indiscretions or he would be receiving a another call from me. I told him he had two days in which to call and after that two days was up I would be following up to confirm that he had indeed called the chairman. I also explained to him that this would go a lot easier if he were to contact the board personally and admit and atone for is transgressions rather than this coming from me. I asked him several times why he would portray himself out to be something he is not and explained that he has risen through the ranks faster than I did and he should be proud of his accomplishments. I tried very hard to be his mentor but his attitude caused me to give him the ultimatum of two days. I regret that now and thought I could have handled this better. I spoke with the chairman and he had not heard from this man. I explained what had transpired and sent him the posts from this forum and two others. I was told to re-contact him and inform him that he would not be allowed to test for Rokudan, would not be receiving his Renshi teaching certification and would not be joining the ranks of the board until this matter came before the board of instructors for review. Further more he would have to meet with the board on this appointed date to answer for these indiscretions at which time they would decide whether he would remain within the organization or be asked to leave. For me this was not an easy thing to do. Confronting him with what I felt violated our tenants was easy. Knowing that this man, my oldest and most trusted student, had dishonored both himself and our art was not something I ever anticipated dealing with. I also did not relish the fact that I would be the person to dash his dreams of actually attaining the rank, license and position he had worked so hard for. Unfortunately some of you know this individual as he has posted here in the past. And it seems that many respected him and his knowledge which makes this an even crappier situation. If I had not went looking for him and to look to see what wisdom and advice he had given this would not have been an issue. Having said that the record needed to be straightened out and the unfortunate misinformation needed to be debunked since this reflects on not just him but on our entire organization. I gave this man every opportunity to deal with this on his own terms but he decided to ignore it rather than deal with it head on. My second phone call did not go well and I could tell that he felt like the board would not rule favorably. He told me that instead of calling the board he called another organization and asked to join their group. Further more he said that he would be calling the board to tell them of his decision to leave. He said he would either join another organization or start his own. I wish him luck and he did not wish the same for me. I know that this is not something to take lightly but I wonder if I may of approached this in a different fashion if the outcome might have been different. Of course I know this was a choice he made but I wonder if by confronting him personally, instead of having the board confront him, if I caused him to feel like he had (to use the Japanese expression) lost face being that he was my student. Either way he is no longer accepting my or anyone else's calls and I have lost a long time student, the organization has lost yet another high ranked instructor (A very good instructor as far as knowledge and passing on the art goes) and the possible loss of his students to another organization. Not my brightest hour. Thanks for the advice although I may not have used it quite as well as it was intended. It certainly did not come out the way I had envisioned it. I thought that as with all things in life and the arts this would be a lesson for him and an example of what it means to be in a leadership position and why it is important to have integrity and honor. I blew that lesson out into left field.

Congrats on earning your Shodan.

Nothing at all wrong with not having belts. When I first started I took a Chinese art called Fu Jow Pai and no one even wore uniforms. Sweats, shorts, t-shirts, etc. you get the idea. When I started Karate we wore white belts until we received our Shodan. Later in years this was changed to incorporate a brown belt and later included the whole rainbow. The point is I never felt one way was better than the next. It's the reality in which you are introduced to the art that you will follow. If there are no belts then the student will follow this example. I don't find it a problem either way as long as the instructor knows where the students level is at. The western world thrives on accomplishment that can be seen and recognized by all. You are probably teaching your students humility better than I do with mine as there is no outward show of accomplishment, only inward satisfaction that they have mastered a new technique. No problems with that!

It really depends on your arts requirements for rank and how they perceive the rank. I can not speak for other arts but for mine there is a pretty stark difference between Nidan and Sandan. The two hardest ranks to pass are Shodan (the culminations of all Mudansha requirements and the proficiency of) and Sandan (the first rank at which we are considered for instructing others). Our art holds a very high degree of competency with regard to the rank. Not only must you prove a high degree of proficiency of the ranks that precede this rank and the curriculum, history, terminology, etc, etc, but you must also prove that you are able to efficiently pass on this knowledge to others. This is not just a one time test but an interviewing process if you will. You are expected to teach for a year, supervised and srcutinised, before being allowed to test for this rank. When you are accepted you must teach before the board and be passed on to be able to take the actual rank exam. The exam itself typically takes a good day to two days to complete. I hope that helps or at least gives you some insight.

I hear other instructors often complain about the fact that their students or potential students are being lost to MMA gyms. I find this somewhat funny being that Karate was a MMA before anyone ever thought to invent the name MMA. I am curious, how many instructors teach their students Kata? These are a mixture of Chinese Quan from seveal styles of Quan Fa (Gung Fu), Okinawan Di/Ti (Te for the Japanese style Karate) and Siamese boxing. How many instructors teach Torite (Tuite)? This is a mixture of the indigenous art of Ti and Chin Na (Qin Na). How many instructors teach Tegumi? This is a mixture of Okinawan grappling and Okinawan Sumo which evolved based on influences from other grappling arts from China and Japan. How many instructors teach Kyusho? This comes from Quan Fa styles developed over centuries of Chinese medicine and study of the body and created into a combative form found within the Bubishi. The point is, Karate if studied as intended, and unlocked though it's Bunkai, has an answer to almost every attack that can be thrown. Torite teaches submissions, joint locks, chocks, dirty tricks, traps, etc., Tegumi teaches throws, take downs and grappling, Kyusho teaches us vital targets and how to capitalize on weaknesses of our opponents and how to overcome with minimal force. Couple this with a striking and kicking art, and it's an answer to these complaints about students fleeing to learn MMA. I find nothing wrong with MMA and would not have an issue with students of mine wanting to learn it. I love watching it and love to find the similarities in it. However I do not understand the thought of students leaving a Karate Dojo to learn something that is contained within their own art unless their instructor does not understand this or was never taught this. What are your thoughts? Do you teach the old ways (the Jutsu)?

I appreciate the comments and information. So to bring another hypothetical into the arena, would you call him out directly or report the conduct to your organizations board? This is actually not a hypothetical situation but an actual situation. I am a bit torn. For one I know this man very well, although he claims to only know me in passing years back and instead claims to be a direct student of Shinshii when publicly speaking to others outside of the organization. He started directly under me and until recently was still under my tutelage. I have gone to bat for him too many times to count and always thought him to be an honest and just individual. His transgression's towards me can be over looked and forgiven. However the fact that he has portrayed himself to be a higher rank and to have been granted certain teaching licenses and titles are very hard to overlook. What I am having trouble overlooking is the fact that this has been advertised over the net to who knows how many martial artists and different organizations, essentially casting a dishonest cloud over our organization. The biggest issue is that he is slotted to take a position on our instructors board, something he has been striving for for at least a decade and for which I no longer feel that he deserves based on his actions. He is also up for rank promotion, a rank which he claims to be at present and for a Renshi teaching license that he claims to already possess. I hate to say this but I am really on the fence for something I wouldn't think twice about dealing with if it were someone else. On one hand he is my most senior student, a huge mark on me for misjudging his character, and someone I have personally vouched for on all too many occasions. On the other hand I can not look past his actions and in good conscience allow him to be voted into a position without informing my fellow board members. Would you call him out on-line (I am no longer in touch with this student, long story) and give him the chance to do the right think and report himself or would you go straight to the board and report his indiscretions?

Hypothetical situation; If you found out that a student of yours had lied about their past, positions, titles and rank to others outside of your school what would you do? Make matters worse, make them an instructor that others in the organization look up. Now imagine that you had taken this person under your wing and fostered them for years, petitioned for their promotions and put yourself on the line because you believed in them. I have always been taught that there are certain tenants "laws if you will" that an instructor must abide by and emulate, one would be integrity. Is this important in your art? Do you hold instructors to a higher standard? Do you hold yourself to this same standard? What would you do if you found out someone close to you was portraying themselves to be more than what they are to others outside of your organization?

How many utilize the old ways and still utilize Ti/Di and Quan Fa (Bubishi) techniques as a apart of their curriculum? Most of these techniques are taught via Torite (Tuite), Tegumi, and Kyusho from the Kata. Do you teach Torite, Tegumi and Kyusho independently of the Kata or as a part of teaching Bunkai, Bunseki, Oyo? What techniques do you utilize that are not in the typical curriculum of most forms of Karate? Example; Tsumasaki (toe kick), Kuma Di (Bear Hand), groin tear, eye gouge, blood pool hand, etc, etc. If you utilize and implement these or other Koryu techniques do you condition these weapons or is this just taught as an addition to your Kihon? We utilize these and other techniques and are taught them through the Kata and not as a separate part of training. These are extracted from the Kata and taught after the student has learned the Kata and often while the student is learning the Kata from Nanakyu to Godan.

With the excerpt from my Golden Anniversary, I'd like to draw attention to the bolded type above, more specifically, concerning my Kaicho appointment(s). Within the SKKA By-Laws and the like, there's no existence with lifetime appointments. Two ways to rescind any elected appointment is either voluntarily or involuntarily with cause!! Supposedly, there's now a third way to rescind any elected appointment... Term Limits!! Thusly, I suppose that Term Limits might be under the same umbrella as voluntarily or involuntarily, depending on just how one might view either. Being put to pasture, isn't always a welcomed part of ones life, it being an involuntarily act. However, stepping down isn't always too welcomed either, it being a voluntarily act. Well, it's like my fellow upper hierarchy's have found that Term Limits might be the way for the SKKA/Hombu to reinvent itself. Change is inevitable, and albeit, needed from time to time. Otherwise, a willingness to refuse change, ushers in an untimed death to the entity. So, without speaking about the legalities and all in any great detail, after all, it came be quite boring, the legal language and such...so much so, that one would rather have a root canal without any anesthesia of any type. Let's speak very briefly about my elected appointment as Kaicho [President]. The By-Laws speak about the recipient of that appointment being automatically promoted to Kudan, without any delays, immediately!! I've never agreed with that, and I still don't agree with that, and that's why I refused that more times than I care to remember. My Kudan, was awarded to me, but only after I passed a Testing Cycle; HOWEVER, this was in the absence of Dai-Soke, due to him having passed away many years earlier. That still leaves a bad taste in my mouth...even now! Kaicho is in charge of everything, and anything, related to the SKKA/Hombu; the buck stops there, and at times, many decisions made by the Kaicho is without contestation!! Because the SKKA/Hombu is a business, daily operational concerns at the Executive Administrative level, are dealt with by the Kaicho. Kaicho's primary concerns are: 1) The Student Body 2) Business Success Kaicho's leadership role also entails being ultimately responsible for all day-to-day Management decisions and for implementing the SKKA's/Hombu's long and short term plans. Kaicho acts as a direct liaison between the Student Body and Management, and therefore, communicates to the Student Body on behalf of the SKKA's/Hombu's Executive Team, which is comprised of General Affairs Department, Instructor Department, Administrative Department, and Regents, as well as any/all sub-level departments. To the crux of the whole matter. I'm Kaicho until I'm no longer the Kaicho per the powers that be, of which, I'm at the top of the food chain. Term Limits!! Here's the proposal, as of this very mornings pow-wow, with the other food chain members. Tada...The Kaicho, for the moment, will... Hold said elected office for ONLY 2 years!! I've been Kaicho for 7-8 years, and guess what, if this proposal becomes a reality, I'll no longer be Kaicho, until I'm reelected at a future date, and believe it or not, I'm fine with that. Anything for the betterment of the Student Body and the SKKA/Hombu. Tricky thing is that as part of the proposal, once a sitting Kaicho is finished with their term, they can't be placed on a ballot for one full term. In short, once I've completed my current term as Kaicho, I can't be placed on the next ballot in any shape, way, and/or form. I'm fine with that too!! Idle minds and the like have nothing else to do with themselves, so, they come up with this, which I too, am fine with. Wondering out loud if this years POTUS election and the like in the USA gave them the idea. It sure wasn't my idea, but, I'm willing, for the betterment of the Student Body and the SKKA/Hombu, to accept and embrace the change. Continued meetings/conversations over this proposal will take us to and through this years Annual Testing Cycle this June/July at the Hombu. This will give us plenty of time to fine tune AND adopt the proposal, if it passes several key votes, that is. Any thoughts, or whatever else?? Sensei8, A few questions come to mind; 1. If your bylaws state that the Kaicho is immediately promoted to Kudan without delay it comes to mind that every 2 years someone new is going to be promoted to Kudan. If this is the case you are going to have the possibility of having top heavy ranking within the organization. 2. what if all of the qualified hierarchy is voted out and you are now electing Godans or Yondans to be Kaicho. Pretty sweet deal to be promoted to Kudan but is this realistic? Does the rank fall off after you are voted out? 3. If you are voted out every two years and not allowed to be voted back in for a term, what happens if the voting body realizes it's made a mistake? Do they vote yet another in his place? Opinion - I fail to see the benefit of this structure. If they want 2 year term limits to have a vote, so be it. Great idea in my mind. It affords the organization an opportunity to make sure that no one turns into a dictator and reduces the chances that one individual can possibly screw things up with bad decisions. However if the student body and the board see benefit to the current Kaicho and are happy with him, it's seems to me to be detrimental to the organization to remove him for a full term and possibly get someone less qualified for the position. Unfortunately I have seen some of this and it's politics as usual. I understand you hold the stance that you are going to accept this for the greater good of the student body but it sounds to me that you disagree with this decision and think its a bad idea. If you are the highest position and rank in the organization could you not bring the issues with the decision to the forefront and question this decision. I'm not saying over rule, just question and ask them if they have thought about this. To me it sounds a little self serving and a good way to be promoted far over current rank due to the "rule" of immediately being promoted. Maybe I am a suspicious person but it just doesn't seem right. No issue with giving the power to the student body to determine who is ruling the roost but to have a mandatory removal of someone that the voting body may be perfectly happy with is IMHO crazy. No disrespect intended to your organization just my personal opinion. Coming from a previously dysfunctional organization, I have seen a little of this play out. A bad idea developed by many people is just a bad idea many times over.

Luther Unleashed, I agree with you about not needing a Dojo. When I returned home from the Marines I taught for 10 years before officially opening a Dojo. I taught in the basement of a church, in a students Pole Barn, and in my back yard (really great physical and mental conditioning when it snowed). It was but no one liked it except for me and a few hard core students. For three months I actually taught in a bowling alley after we lost the church location. The point is what you have to "sell" is your knowledge, not your location. You can teach anywhere. If your students gain experience and feel like they are improving under your direction, most could careless where they train. If you attract the right kind of students the situation takes care of itself because they are there to learn and do not worry about where they learn. My senior student up until a year ago was teaching out of his pole barn and had a minimum student attendance of 40+ on any given class night. My teacher taught out of his garage for the first 5 years after I started. I never cared.

I suppose that that's how my Kudan came about. I refused the promotion over and over and over, even though our By-Laws states that whomever is elected to Kaicho, that individual will be promoted to the rank of Kudan. I didn't like that, I still don't like it, and I refused to accept Kudan because of some rule in our By-Laws, repeatedly. Even my Dai-Soke spoke with me about this very same thing, and after we had talked, he understood my reasons, even though he didn't agree with them all, he told everyone to leave me alone. So, perhaps my Kudan was already decided upon way back, and under the guise of a Testing Cycle, one that I demanded, they awarded me my Kudan. Again, in my heart of hearts, I'm Hachidan, and I'm content with that. In Shindokan, all ranks up to, and including Hachidan, are tested for their ranks, in both karate-do and kobudo. Only Kudan and Judan are awarded through the auspices of our By-Laws. And I still believe, so was MY Kudan!! I agree with you and respect your feelings on the subject. I have passed on promotion 4 times in my journey and only accepted a position/title after Shinshii explained to me that I had expectations and had built up what each level should be in my mind. That others around you can see what you can not and sometimes you have to respect the decisions of others especially when they see you for what you are. If your organization felt that you were worthy of such a title, rank and position they probably are right even though you felt differently. I respect that you forced them to legitimize it by having them test you. And to speak more so to the reasons behind your promotion; If you do what I did and take yourself out of the picture and switch positions, looking at yourself as anyone else would, would you feel the same? Would you promote yourself and grant your position? The art teaches us to be humble, selfless and to set lofty goals for ourselves. It is sometimes hard to accept what others see or what is best for the organization as a whole when it does not fit into our own perceptions caused by our training. Based on the few posts I have read of yours I tend to agree with their decision.

Bob (Sensei8) and Liam (Nidan Melbourne) I apologize for not seeing that you introduced yourself earlier. My name is Ken. I did not mean to be rude just did not pick up that you included your names in the posts. My apologies. Sensei8, I agree ,unfortunately, that our experiences have been somewhat similar. Not a very happy time in any of our lives but we are on the mend and hopefully in a few years we will be back to where we left off. If you're really interested I can tell you all about how screwed up a few people can make things. Unfortunately I have to admit that I was one of those people. Sometimes humility is not the best policy. Unfortunately this lesson is only learned after you see the end results.

IMHO you can not create a great instructor. We have strict requirements that must be met before one is granted the right (privilege IMHO) to teach. However these and most requirements do not guarantee success. Just because you can recite the curriculum backwards and forwards and have become very proficient in the skills and obtained the knowledge does not mean you can teach. In my experience most great teachers have a few traits in common. Most importantly they relish the successes of their students and foster these successes. They hold nothing back and do not fear their students over taking them in knowledge, skill and especially rank. They are humble and extremely knowledgeable. But if there is one thing that makes them great is the fact that they are able to connect with each student on a higher level and pass the knowledge on to each in a way they can comprehend. I think a great teacher is someone that urn's to pass on all of their knowledge to worthy students in a way that each is able to gain the most from his teachings and improve themselves because of his teachings. Having said this there are not many that are in this league. I have strived to emulate my teachers and utilize all that they taught me to benefit my students. Having said this I know I do not come close in this endeavor. I think all one can do is constantly strive to be better for your students and through this, maybe some day you will have helped them to be a great teacher. It is good to have requirements to allow someone to teach. It's a qualification test more than anything else. Those that do have requirements most likely produce better teachers in that they weed out those not qualified. Having said this, there are many I have met and stood beside in my years that should not be teaching, even though they passed the requirements to teach. Some might say this about me and knowing I am not of the same level as my instructors I could not argue this. However the difference is I want to make sure they understand and get the most out of it. Some just go thru the motions and expect their students to fill in the blanks. IMO these are individuals that should not teach. Rule one is to pass on the flame that was handed down to you so that the art, and not your ego, will live on past your life time.

Thank you for the warm welcome. I think I will learn much from all of you as I have read several posts and discovered that KF has a lot of knowledge base. I can only hope that I can give back a small amount of knowledge and contribute to this wealth of knowledge. I look forward to the coming journey and thank you in advance for accepting me. I have read many posts that focus on passing on the flame and have been very impressed by the selflessness and humility of the contributors.

The last Shodan grading that I attended, 1 of the 2 students got his nose broken in the FIRST sparring round of 40. Bad luck, it's going to be a long way to the 40th round...... Finished in style tho. That is part or at least it used to be part of the test. Proving you have the gumption to continue in the face of physical and mental exhaustion and even thru injury. This proved to your instructor two things, 1. you have the determination and 2. you have the will. The old saying goes; "it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog" and "seven times down, eight times up". These principles used to be common place. Very few practice the old ways anymore. I would've shaken the students hand after he finished the test. This is not to mean that testing needs to be barbaric. Just that there used to be a higher standard. You didn't quit when your nose was broken or a finger got jammed. You pushed through.

Higher ranks are often given to those that are worthy based on knowledge, years of service to the organization and contribution to the art. Some arts stop testing for rank after Godan, Rokudan or Nanadan. You can request to be tested but it is but a formality and this is more or less to satisfy the recipient and not the board as the decision is already made. This is somewhat common place within the arts. The problem as I see it is not so much Kodansha receiving rank but giving rank to those undeserving to get them to switch associations/organizations or to trade rank as is often the case with some arts. If you have been studying for years/centuries and have proven yourself, the board or organization head has every right to promote you based on your merits passed a certain rank/grade (Godan, Rokudan, Nanadan, Hachidan). Giving someone a rank that has never even stepped foot on your Dojo floor just to get them to change organizations or as a bribe to give you rank in their art IMHO is disgraceful.

I was told about the forums by one of my senior students and thought I would check it out. I read through the different posts and decided to join. I am excited to be a member here and think I will get a lot out of this forum based on previous posts that I have read. About me, I have been studying Matsumura Shorin Ryu (now changed to Matsumura Suide) for 36 years and Matayoshi Kobudo for 30 years. I have studied Matsubayashi Ryu, Ryukyu Kenpo, Eishin Ryu Iaido, Judo and Goju Ryu. I hold the rank of Rokudan and hold the teaching license of Renshi.

The testing time has lessened today and so have the requirements. When I tested for Shodan it took on average two days for most. Back then you had to have mastered the beginning Mudansha grades (Hachikyu to Yonkyu) and be very proficient in the advanced Mudansha grades (Sankyu to Ikkyu). You had to demonstrate all of the Mudansha Kata, Applications (Bunkai), Kihon, self defense, terminology, history of the art, lineage and fought (Kumite and not the patty cake crap of today) all of the Yudansha at Shodan and Nidan and been able to continue. Of course it was held at a higher level than it is today. It was not just another rank and you were expected to be able to defend yourself because you represented the instructor, school and art. A student reflected his teacher, dojo and art and most instructors would not even ask you to test until they felt you were worthy. No time limit. It took me 7 years to be granted the right to test and earn my Shodan. It's different now. Now it takes about 4 to 5 years and only 4 hours and the requirements are more lax in comparison. Can't have little Johnny going home with a shinner or briken nose! This was somewhat common place then. It's not now.

Wado Heretic, with all due respect I must disagree with you. Bunkai are the applications by which the Kata was created. The founder (Matsumura Sokon in my styles case) of the art took the self defense applications, essentially mimicking the Quan and created the Kata from these applications. Yes there are any number of applications that can be applied to any one movement/technique or series of within the Kata but the instructor should first explain and demonstrate the original application before allowing a student to develop their own. If not the original intent and thus the foundation of the Kata is lost. Applying new applications is always a part of a students journey into enlightenment and self discovery but the core applications that inspired/created the Kata should be understood first.

My apologies Sensei8. I just saw your post pretty much explaining the same thing as I just did. Not riding your coat tails just didn't read the 2nd page. Solid post by the way and good advice.

Not to discourage you but if you are only talking about 1 to 2 weeks you may want to save your money up and wait until you can stay for no less than 3 months. You can not get enough out of a trip in 2 weeks to make the trip worth while. I would contact the Okinawa Traditional Karate Liaison Bureau to have them contact the instructor you would like to train under at least a year in advance of travelling. They will help you with accommodations, translators, travel, site seeing, and introductions. Depending on who you are planning on studying with it is customary to have your Sensei get in touch with them personally or through your organization so that they know your coming. Popping in on an instructor is not customary. Also bring a gift to offer to the instructor you intend to study with. Do not get hurt feelings if you do not get the chance to study directly under them as they often will pass you off to one of their senior students. Good luck and let us know how the trip turns out.