
MatsuShinshii
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Everything posted by MatsuShinshii
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Not a Shotokan practitioner however I would ask a simple question; Are you under an organization like the JKA? If so use their syllabus if not then I would chose what you wish too. Not sure what "freestyle club" means. If you are outside of a parent organization you have free rein to do as you please. Having said that if it where me I would stick to the standard Shotokan Kata as others have listed. Below is a list I found very quickly on google. Shotokan – Taikyoku Shodan Shotokan – Taikyoku Nidan Shotokan – Taikyoku Sandan Heian Shodan Heian Nidan Heian Sandan Heian Yondan Heian Godan Tekki Shodan Tekki Nidan Tekki Sandan Bassai Dai Bassai Sho Kanku Dai Kanku Sho Enpi Jion Gankaku Hangetsu Jitte Chinte Sochin Meikyo Jiin Gojushiho Dai Gojushiho Sho Nijushiho Wankan Unsu
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You bring up some very valid points here. You have to assess what it is the instructor has to teach you, and just what the instructor's rank is. You want to get the most you can out of the instructor, and you want it to be what you want the most. To the bold underlined above. Rank does not equal good instruction. I have known very high grades that could not teach effectively and conversely I have know lower Yudansha grades that were exceptional teachers. I would agree that, "in theory", the higher the grade the better the teacher however this is not always true. Grade really has nothing to do with teaching ability. Grade translates to knowledge. This is important in teaching but what makes a good teacher is the ability to convey their message in an efficient way that translates to their students. Knowing the entire syllabus and being able to teach it in a way that your students understand it are truly two separate things.
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Sounds like it will be lots of fun. Hope you enjoy yourself.
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I'm not a Muay Thai practitioner so I can't speak to the amount of knee injuries in that art. However in my art it is not uncommon to receive injuries (including the knees). My right knee has been blown out (severe ACL tear that took a bit of my leg bone with it) but with time and effort all things are over come. Is there a higher injury rate in Muay Thai to the knees? Possibly. However there is a real risk of injury in any combat art. It's just something we understand and accept as a part of training. As Sensei8 stated there are ways to reduce the chances of injury by strengthening the legs but anyone can be caught wrong and sustain an injury. Mine came from doing something that has been ingrained into my head for decades of what not to do. I planted my foot as my student swept it. At first I was less upset about getting my knee blown out as I was with doing something that I know not to do that lead to the knee getting blown out. Bottom line is... it happens. You can prepare your whole life and all it takes is one little lapse in judgement, get caught not paying attention or not having your mind in the moment or just make an honest mistake and hello injury. All you can do is train correctly and try to rely on your training. If it happens, it happens. After 41 year I can tell you after many, many broken bones, torn ligaments, 2 concussions, bruises, cuts and the like... it will happen. It's just part of the fun!
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Did I take makiwara training too seriously?
MatsuShinshii replied to username19853's topic in Karate
Makiwara can be an invaluable tool to training but must be used properly. It is a process not an instant result tool. Starting out you should be striking it only to the point of pain. I don't mean discomfort, I mean pain. As soon as you begin to experience pain you should stop. Over time you will find that you are able to strike it for longer periods of time and harder. Its a tool that teaches you. It teaches you how to generate power and how to address a target correctly. This is sometimes misunderstood for hitting it as hard as physically possible from the start. Again it's a process. You will condition your body over time and you will be able to strike it for longer periods of time and progressively harder. If your striking it past the point of pain you are doing unnecessary damage to your body. I know many that have sever arthritis (one that can't close his hand) due to this type of misguided training. It should be used but it needs to be used correctly. "No pain, No gain" does not apply to Makiwara training. I realize some will disagree with me, but I've been using one faithfully every week for 41 years and I have hit it as hard as I want without any damage by following my Shinshii's guidance and as he taught me. Continuously striking it to induce more pain in the hopes that somehow this will gain faster results is folly thinking. Take it slow and you will reap the benefits of Makiwara training. -
What's the point in martial arts?
MatsuShinshii replied to LastKing's topic in General Martial Arts Discussion
Well when I was younger it was all about self defense, or let me be honest and say learning how to fight and protect myself. I loved the fact that I could stay in shape and I needed the discipline. Having said that my focus has changed with 41 years under my belt and a whole lot of miles on my body. My focus now it the technical and the applications of the art. Rather than toughening my body and making it a weapon (I figure if it isn't by now it will never be) I have turned to study of the art and acquiring a deeper understanding of the art. I am also an avid researcher and history buff so learning all I can about the art, where it came from and all I can learn about the founders has become one of my major focuses. That and passing down what I was blessed to learn. I'm not sure if that is natural as you age or as you reach higher grades but that's where I am. -
Be Careful, My Friend, Very Careful...
MatsuShinshii replied to sensei8's topic in Instructors and School Owners
When you say removed what does that mean? Are you shunned from the SKKA? Are you still a member? Can you still teach and promote under the SKKA? I assume you have your own dojo/ school/ students, so what does that mean for them? Are you still able to teach, promote under the SKKA? Sorry to hear about your circumstances. -
Thanks Bob. That answers my questions.
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I have to say I have been obsessive over my financial calculations. It is making me feel really ill the amount I've spent out so far but I worked it out as if I recruit around 20 students over the year I'll break even. I've gone in hard on the marketing and have had 37 sign on for trial lessons and I'm hoping I can convert at least half of them. Sounds like you have a great start. Remember to have fun. Running a business and constantly watching finances can become a burden that breaks you. You have to focus on the business side but don't forget to focus on the other side. Your are obviously in the arts because you enjoy it. Don't loose sight of that. If you are not enjoying yourself your students will pick up on that vibe. Remember to brush off the stresses of the business side before stepping on the floor. If your giving good quality instruction and enjoying what you are doing it will be contagious and your students will enjoy it too. With any luck they'll tell their friends and the business of recruiting will take care of itself. My first year teaching I was a stress monster worrying about rent, electric and water and it showed. I ended up learning a hard lesson when students started leaving. Went I thought all was lost and just started enjoying myself students started bringing in friends and everything turned around. I taught for 12 years before making the decision (based on ever increasing rent) to drop the retail space and find free training places. Just don't loose sight of why you started. You'll be fine. Just my 2 cents.
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I met a customer that flew in town to go over a project and at lunch the conversation turned to MA. He said he studied Kingai Ryu. Our lunch was short as we needed to get back to the task at hand so I didn't get to much past what he told me of it. Over the years I have heard this term many times. While studying Matayoshi Kobudo our instructor often spoke of this art but never showed us anything in terms of techniques. He stated that it was not a striking art nor a weapons art but both and practiced as such. He said that it was heavily White Crane. This interested me. Have any of you studied this art? Can you give more detail as to what it is and if it is a White Crane art?
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Aikido rolls
MatsuShinshii replied to OneKickWonder's topic in BJJ, Judo, Jujitsu, Aikido, and Grappling Martial Arts
I like that way of thinking. Good point. -
They don't. The applications contained within the Kata do. You train to deal with every possible attack method. I think the problem is Modern Karate's interpretation of the Kata. Stuck on basics. "This is the way we punch". The problem is there is no evolution to the art. No Yudansha should be punching the way they did when they were Mudansha. No Kodansha punches like they did when they were Yudansha. You evolve as you learn and begin to understand your art and it's combative methodology. To say that a straight punch is the only way a Karateka will punch you in a fight is preposterous. To say that the only thing you will ever defend against and therefore the only thing your applications should focus on in training is a straight "Karate" punch is equally preposterous. The founders fought in life and death conflicts. Do you or anyone else here actually feel that the only lessons the founders passed down in which are contained in the Kata are just ways to deal with basics?? You're over simplifying it. "BAck to Basics" again. The Kata's applications are not created to deal with the most basic of attacks nor as popularly believed to deal with the untrained street thug, they are a compilation of techniques and applications that had been tried and tested in battle and had been proven to be effective. This means to deal with advanced means of attack from trained combatants. Yes there are applications to deal with the most common methods of attack (this even includes basic Kihon techniques) but that is not what it is restricted to as you are pointing out. If this is the way that you train in Kata, forgive me if this comes off judgmental, but you're doing it wrong. My point was that no one strikes one way no matter the circumstance. My point about a Boxer's jab is, you wouldn't throw a straight jab if you did not have a target to connect with. Instead you would adapt and alter the angle in order to connect. Karate is no different. To put an art into a neat little box of basic kihon and call it combat effective makes no sense and is false in it's premise. This is Modern Karate not the art that the founders handed down. You are describing an art altered to teach school children not one designed for combat. The art that the founders created was specifically for combat. The mere suggestion that they would limit the applications and principles to basics is missing the point entirely. I understand that some train in what they think are the founders applications but are in actuality training in what I would call literal interpretation. In this case yes you only use the basic Kihon of reverse punch, front kicks and the like and you only defend against the like. This is NOT what the Kata represents nor the lessons that it contains. You know, one of these days we are gonna have to get together and do some training so you can show me what you are on about with all of this. I'd love that. It would be an honor to train with you. I understand that "Modern Karate" does not train this way nor teach this way due to the sport aspect of the art. Self-defense takes a back seat to trophies which attracts the kids which brings the money in. I have experience in what I call modern arts and they have their place but I agree that they do not teach this way. Having said that there are many arts that do teach the applications of the Kata (not literal translations but practical and/or original). I'm nothing special in this nor do I think of myself as an expert on all things Tickiki or Kata. On the contrary I am anything but an expert. And to be clear I am not trying to say in anyway that the way I teach or the way I was taught is the way. I am merely trying to share what little knowledge I have just like anyone on this forum. I do try to maintain the integrity of the art and pass on what I was taught, how it was taught to me without modern changes. To me there is no mystery nor anything "secret or hidden" in the Kata. It's only viewed as a mystery by some because it's not typical training in the majority. But that does not mean that it is not taught in other arts. It is. I'm a bit of a technological idiot but I have been able to research over the web. I have found very good examples of arts utilizing the old ways to teach in many arts. One of which would be our own Wastelander. I found him by accident when one of my students showed me a video (I believe it was WAZA Wednesday) highlighting a few applications that were different, similar and in some instances the same as what we teach. This is a perfect example of how you define and also discover the Kata's applications. I ended up watching every video after seeing the first and only by chance did I figure out it was Wastelander I was watching. Some are basic, some examples are intermediate and some are advanced. The point is I'm nothing special nor is my art or the way we teach it. There are plenty of arts that still teach the old ways, albeit some with a modern twist and others altered to meet modern expectations. As far as an "Alive Manner" goes. Well that is IMHO the only way to train and the only way to figure out what works and what doesn't for you (the individual). We do not force feed techniques or methods down our students throats. It's very much an individual journey and as such they have to discover what works because not every application works for everyone. We train not unlike you in that we utilize what we call two person drills. Punching in the air doesn't give feed back nor does it teach the student anything in terms of body mechanics. If they punch air there is no resistance, they do not learn that if you strike at a bad angle it hurts you rather than your opponent, and so on. The feed back you get from your partner(s) is invaluable in terms of learning. Learning applications is a progression. As stated this begins easy and methodically so that the student can learn the methods of attack and defense. From there it is a steady progression. The final stage is what I call the proof test. This is were the student tries to utilize the application against a resisting, un-cooperative opponent. This is where we make it real. I believe in contact and this is contact. Now I must say that other training goes along with this and is needed. Conditioning, body shifting, and the like compliment and go hand in hand. It's not a "special", or "unusual" or "unique" way to train. On the contrary, it's the way my Shinshii trained so it's the way I train. Maybe it's different from your experiences with the art but I don't think it's that unusual in terms of old school arts. Well... remember me saying I'm a technological idiot? I wasn't kidding. I will have to ask my students that occasionally video tape grading if they can post them or show me how to. I personally have no idea how to post video's (Patrick has tried to explain it but I just can't seem to actually make it work, although it's probably so simple that my new grandson could do it). Trust me I've tried. I want to be cool like the rest of the guys posting vid's here. I think it's a user to computer interface problem, as my nephew so sarcastically tells me when ever I don't understand how to do something. However if the younger generation can show me how to and if they have them I will definitely post them. I do not believe in tournaments and haven't since I was a much, much younger version of myself. I think it instills bad habits that are contrary to the main focus, "to learn how to fight and defend yourself". (Haven't seen a pulled punch do much damage and I do not want students thinking that some flashy triple flip fill in the blanks technique is what you want to take to the streets) Just my personal opinion. Having said that, not that they would admit it to me, but I do know a few of my younger students compete from time to time behind my back. Again I will ask if any have video's. In the end I do not at all feel that the way I train or teach is anything special in terms of what I would call the old school arts. I think it's fairly typical honestly. I appreciate the compliment but you would have been better training under my teacher. He is 30 times the teacher I will ever be and I'm sure would do a much better job passing on the principles that I've so poorly tried to explain in my posts. But again I love training and if the occasion ever presents itself where you are in my neck of the woods I would love to mix it up a bit and have the opportunity to show you a bit of my world and learn a bit of yours. Nothing better than the opportunity to train with others. Let me know if your heading east and we'll definitely meet up. And even though probably not warranted, thank you for the compliment. It's appreciated.
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They don't. The applications contained within the Kata do. You train to deal with every possible attack method. I think the problem is Modern Karate's interpretation of the Kata. Stuck on basics. "This is the way we punch". The problem is there is no evolution to the art. No Yudansha should be punching the way they did when they were Mudansha. No Kodansha punches like they did when they were Yudansha. You evolve as you learn and begin to understand your art and it's combative methodology. To say that a straight punch is the only way a Karateka will punch you in a fight is preposterous. To say that the only thing you will ever defend against and therefore the only thing your applications should focus on in training is a straight "Karate" punch is equally preposterous. The founders fought in life and death conflicts. Do you or anyone else here actually feel that the only lessons the founders passed down in which are contained in the Kata are just ways to deal with basics?? You're over simplifying it. "BAck to Basics" again. The Kata's applications are not created to deal with the most basic of attacks nor as popularly believed to deal with the untrained street thug, they are a compilation of techniques and applications that had been tried and tested in battle and had been proven to be effective. This means to deal with advanced means of attack from trained combatants. Yes there are applications to deal with the most common methods of attack (this even includes basic Kihon techniques) but that is not what it is restricted to as you are pointing out. If this is the way that you train in Kata, forgive me if this comes off judgmental, but you're doing it wrong. My point was that no one strikes one way no matter the circumstance. My point about a Boxer's jab is, you wouldn't throw a straight jab if you did not have a target to connect with. Instead you would adapt and alter the angle in order to connect. Karate is no different. To put an art into a neat little box of basic kihon and call it combat effective makes no sense and is false in it's premise. This is Modern Karate not the art that the founders handed down. You are describing an art altered to teach school children not one designed for combat. The art that the founders created was specifically for combat. The mere suggestion that they would limit the applications and principles to basics is missing the point entirely. I understand that some train in what they think are the founders applications but are in actuality training in what I would call literal interpretation. In this case yes you only use the basic Kihon of reverse punch, front kicks and the like and you only defend against the like. This is NOT what the Kata represents nor the lessons that it contains.
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NO! Right or wrong he was from an older generation that had their beliefs. Our Shinshii would not allow anyone under the age of 16 to study much less test for Shodan. Even though it is impossible for someone to earn Shodan in two years in our art the minimum age was 18. Typical time to Shodan is 5 to 7 years. This is how I was brought up in the arts and I maintain this with my students. To give a bit of a historical perspective and possibly an insight into the age minimums. My Shinshii once explained that that older generation felt that a boy did not become a man until the age of 16. This is when they were required to go to work and help their families out (of course I'm sure kids were working prior to this age). This later changed to 18 when the old ways were taken over by modernization. He further explained that many older teachers would not teach the "true" art until a student reached the age of 16. Since Shinshii only taught the "true" art he capped off the minimum age to train at 16. Where 18 for Shodan came into the mix I have no idea and never asked. I hold many of the old standards at heart and agree with many of the reasons for not promoting children to Shodan. But as you pointed out this has been discussed in other posts so I will end by stating I do not think your Soke was wrong in his judgement nor his decision. Just my 2 cents.
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Do you consider yourself a natural-born MAist?
MatsuShinshii replied to Shizentai's topic in General Martial Arts Discussion
Natural born martial artist? No. I think some have a predisposition from a young age for fighting arts and some do not. I think some are born with certain traits that lend themselves to the fighting arts such as speed, strength and analytical thinking. However to be proficient past a basic ability I think it is learned and developed over time. I don't think someone with no training, no matter the natural ability, can be considered a martial artists without training. To throw a punch may be natural but an understanding of how to fight is learned. -
Does a boxer only throw a jab one way? NO! Do you only evade a strike one way? NO! I might be saying the same thing as others only in a different way but I'm going to try my best to explain Tichiki to you. If by literal you mean the way the Kata is perceived (the way it looks) and in the pattern it is performed... NO it is not literal! You will never be attacked in that exact pattern. Further more the way it looks (perceived as to its meaning) is not literal either. Most perceive the Kata to be nothing more than strikes, kicks and blocks. This is not the case. A specific posture can be a strike or kick but not all are. To put everything into this box ignores the other elements of the art that the founders put into the Kata that make it effective in combat. The applications (Tichiki or what some incorrectly call Bunkai) come from the individual postures or a sequence of postures. Each posture or sequence represents one or more applications from one or more of the elements that make up your art. Lets take a basic Kata, say the beginning movements of Pinan Shodan. There are three distinct postures in a sequence in the beginning of this Kata. The sequence represents several scenarios of applications and encompasses Tuidi, Atemi, Chibudi and Muto. If confused the first posture is an augmented (we'll call them blocks and use English so as to be clear) right upper block with left outside upper block, then a right palm up punch as you bring the left to the right shoulder crossing over the right arm, and finally chambering the right as you perform a left lower block. If you take the Kata literally this makes no sense in terms of actual combat. It's what the postures actually represent rather than what they are perceived to be that make sense and are combat effective. I've explained a few of these in other posts so I will not go into writing another novel here in writing out different applications to each posture in a given Kata. Now that was the sequence represented but each of those postures represents applications within themselves. Each posture (move, stance, whatever you call it) represents one or more battle proven applications. Each application will contain one or more of the elements of the art. If you look at Kata as punch, block and kick, you're right, they should not be taken literally. Now, how do you practice the applications? Are they useless because you only train with a specific attack on a set angle? Again I ask, does a boxer only throw a jab one way and at one set angle? NO! You learn the applications in a slow methodical method where your partner is compliant. This in the beginning must be the way as you must develop the proper body mechanics, understanding of depth, distance, understanding of the what, how and why. One the student has the fundamentals down the game changes and the opponent no longer is so compliant. The angles of attach change, the speed and force changes, the opponent tries to thwart your attempts at countering or applying the applications. This is done in a progression so that the student can develop and it becomes second nature. To say that all strikes or kicks will come at a set angle is folly and foolish. We teach the foundation. The student must learn to adapt that and make it work. This is done by doing it over and over under different conditions with different opponents. This is also true in the fact that the student builds a greater understanding and with that understanding can draw upon and create their own from the knowledge they have been taught. They can also discover other meanings of the postures. Side Bar - [applications are not an individual shadow boxing event. It requires two people. In order for the student to learn you have to have contact. You (at least in my personal opinion) can not learn these alone] This, as in all combat arts, is an individual journey. The student vets what works and what doesn't. There is nothing set. To say that an application or the way you perform it is set is not accurate. In combat nothing is set. To make the assumption that the founders (battle tested warriors) created set parameters that can not be adapted is ludicrous. Yes angles change. No two people will kick you at the same angle, with the same speed or force. You must take the knowledge and adapt it to work. This is why we have a progression that leads to actual pressure testing in which the student has to create based on his knowledge of the art. The applications give the student a multitude of choice far beyond what they can learn through Kumite alone. The argument comes up quite often that traditional arts are no good for combat. That combat sports arts are the only answers to real combat. I might point out that all singular practitioners of these arts have been bested. No one art is THE BEST in terms of combat. Tudi (Karate) as it was taught prior to modernization and as it is still taught in some arts is a combat art. If you understand the art and how to utilize it, it's as effective as any other. You notice I did not say better as some do. To explain in writing how to study the Kata and it's applications and how to use them, not to mention the multitude of scenarios is very difficult without writing a real novel. My advice to you before dismissing them as ineffective is to find a teacher that understands and knows them and more importantly understands how to teach them. The secret that many do not want to know or understand is that this is not an over night, learn them and presto your able to fight. With anything it takes time and is definitely not an over night, one class type of thing. You can learn basics (Kihon). You can be taught how to punch and pick it up fairly quickly. Learning when to and how, where to, and to put that together with other techniques, that is where Tickiki and the Kata come into play. I hope this rushed explanation answers a few questions. I hate to hear students say that something is useless or not efficient without a true understanding of what it actually is.
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I love the puzzle analogy.
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To further clarify complete art. If you research old Quan Fa you will see that an art was represented by a singular form. These forms were passed down as a “complete” representation of the art in terms of skills and principles. As with typical human nature, students would seek other teachers/ arts in search of better understanding or to gain an edge over others. This is when “arts” began to contain more than one form (Kata). The Okinawans were no exception as the sought out as many teachers and Kata as they could find. Essentially creating a “complete” art. At least in terms of modern understanding. However there is evidence that one could study a singular Kata and obtain a complete understanding of fighting/ combat skills. I would point to Motobu and Naifanchin. I too would agree with his statement as I have spent 40 years studying Naifanchin and have gained understanding of “some” of its fighting principles but will probably spend another 40 years without full understanding.
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Simple answer no, not every Kata is. Those that were created from the existing are not. Rather they are a furthering of the existing principles. I have said this many times without clarification. The old Kata (Hsing) are in fact complete arts. Wanshu, Seisan, Jutte, Ueseishi, etc. are complete arts and we’re taught as such. They contain all of the applications, techniques and principles or that art. You must understand that these forms were originally the art itself but as was human nature to search for additional skills and knowledge teachers started to combine arts to create “better” fighting traditions. As such they acquired additional forms and the skills, knowledge and principles contained. The Okinawans were no exception and collected as many as they could. Kata like Pinan Sandan, Yondan and Godan for an example are not complete arts. Depending on what you believe and what you’re own or others research has led you to believe, Pinan Shodan and Nidan could be or may not be. If you believe Channan was split into two Kata ( either by Matsumura or Itosu, this is an argument/ discussion for another post) then it is the embodiment of a complete art. If you believe Itosu created all five from kusanku’s principles then they are not. I will not argue one way or the other in this post as it’s off topic. If you’ve spent any time studying (really studying) your Kata you can understand the old masters stating that you could spend a lifetime studying one Kata. It’s because they contain thousands of possibilities and they embody a complete system (art) within them.
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This is very informative and insightful. Many thanks for sharing. What this does for me personally, is to reinforce my belief that kata / forms are about teaching principles rather than literal applications. Based on this fine contribution alone, I present 2 reasons for my conclusion. 1. In each of the videos shown, the 'attack' was far too orderly. It was completely unrealistic. But even if someone were to attack in a slow and predictable way, you'd have to be pretty skilled to pull off the techniques shown. Some of those joint manipulations only work if you get them pretty much bang on accurate. Quite difficult to do in the chaos of reality. Yet in that chaos, there may be moments where perhaps midway through a struggle, you happen to get that lock on or see that opportunity to strike. Therefore the principles are sound, but the application, which I see as a predefined assembly of principles, is unrealistic. It is like learning to build a house, then being given a piece of land and asked to build a house on it. If you break it down to principles of lay foundations, build walls, add plumbing and electrics etc, it's going to be fine. But try to build a specific area house to a specific design it's only going to work if by pure chance the plot perfectly suits the design. 2. As you've said, even very experienced teachers can't agree on the application. These are guys that have dedicated a lifetime to the study of an art in intricate detail. Yet they have perfectly valid but radically conflicting views on applications. I know the elbow wing thing you refer to. I've heard it represents having your hands tied and a pole slotted through your arms, as if being taken prisoner, and you are escaping. I've heard they are blocks from when you are caught off guard with hands by sides, but when I went to aikido I saw the exact same move being used in a disarm technique. The aikido version making more sense to me than any other explanation I've heard or seen, but that doesn't mean it's exclusively correct or even what the creator of the form had in mind. To answer to your number 1 reason... Your looking at a demonstration for the purpose of teaching others. What you do not see, at least in the way we teach and learn, is the steady progression of training. The techniques have to work, no matter of looks, in real life and as such are pressure tested. No, not every student will use all of the applications because some will not work for them in a stress situation. In terms of what we call the founders applications, they are simple, effective and very efficient. They do not have 40 movements to end the fight. Typically there are only a few movements and they are natural not forced. In terms of your number 2 reason... I think you need to re-read the post. There are many variations and although no one can with absolute certainty that this or that application came from the founder one thing holds true, if it works use it, if it doesn't don't waste your time. You can choose to study the Kata or not. In the end it's your journey and your decision. My focus has been to study the Kata because IMHO it's a treasure trove of techniques and applications that you would not be able to pick up no matter how much you trained in Kumite. It gives you the well-roundedness that studying modern day Karate does not. It teaches you other ways outside of the typical and gives you more choices than just Kihon. But to each their own.
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Just mentioning a reason why there is a disproportionate amount of weird/strange compared to some other activities. Yet so far, nobody has mentioned that it's about a bunch of people of all ages and shapes and sizes getting together, in pyjamas, to get sweaty together, in pyjamas, beat the living daylights out of thin air, in pyjamas, shout about lot at nothing, and then get up close and personal and chuck each other about, in pyjamas. Did I mention that we do all this, in our pyjamas. Very funny.
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Weird things happen in the movies. Meeting the secretive master hermit monk in the woods that takes you under his wing and teaches you the ultimate martial art that makes you the ultimate super secret monk kung fu ninja of the world only happens in the minds of movie makers and fraudulent hack instructors. Just doesn't happen. I guess that makes me boring too because nothing weird or unusual has ever happened to me.