MatsuShinshii

What do you think is the minimum age is to become an instructor? At what grade are you considered an instructor? Nikyu? Ikkyu? Shodan? Nidan? Sandan? What age should a Sandan (3rd Dan) be? What age should a Godan (5th Dan) be? What age should a Hachidan (8th Dan) be? What age should a Judan (10th Dan) be? What minimum age should you be to hold the title of Sensei, Shihan, Soke? I was reading an article written by a very, very young instructor/Kodansha and wondered what the consensus is on minimum age requirements are for instructors and Yudansha/Kodansha grades among this group. That is if there is a consensus. This has nothing to do with knowledge or skill whatsoever. This is merely your thoughts on age and grade.

When you were a beginner what did this mean to you? When you started teaching what did this mean? For those of you that are Kodansha, what does this mean to you? My definition of proficiency has changed as I traveled along my path in the MA. Its meaning changed the longer I trained and even more so when I started teaching. Proficiency can mean many things to different people. In this context it means the proper execution of technique and perfection of the art.

I don't mind getting older. Yes it has some drawbacks in that joints ache a little more, flexibility isn't what it used to be and I've slowed down a pinch. The thing with age and the passage of time is the accumulation of knowledge. No I don't just mean that you have memorized more and know more than the younger students. In fact you realize its has less to do with knowing every technique and more to do with understanding the art. You figure out things that only years and decades of study reveal. Things that can not be taught. You realize that expending vast amounts of energy is great for the young but is unnecessary to achieve your goal. You lean, over time, that you can do the same with half or less of the effort. To be honest I wish I knew back when I was younger what I know now. I think it's a balancing act. When you're young you have to make up for what you don't know with strength and speed. When you get older and have decades of training under your belt you realize that you don't need to be the fastest or the strongest to overcome your opponent. You realize that proper technique doesn't demand as much strength or speed to work and in most cases it works better without them. Yes getting old has some drawbacks but then again it also has it's benefits.

True its main purpose is to develop power and teach proper body mechanics, however it can not be denied that the bodies natural weapons do over time become conditioned with it's use. I understand what you are saying and do agree with you but it does also serve this function albeit not its main function.

Congrats! It's good to hear your doing well. It sounds like you are making excellent progress. Keep training and maintain the positive outlook.

Great suggestions.

Welcome to KF. Glad you are here.

Thanks for posting this again Wastelander. Western myths are prevalent in the MA and this is one of the more popular ones.

Many reasons but I'll touch on just one that will speak to the spirit of your post. How many times do you practice the same self defense technique? If you're strictly taking a self defense based art you might practice it up until you test or until you start learning new techniques. How many times do you practice Kata? Answer; you never stop. Why is this important? Well if you think in terms of what Kata is and what it contains (some might call the applications self defense) you will realize that you practice these techniques over and over. You may not realize it but your conditioning your body over time. Essentially ingraining muscle memory. This leads to an instant response. Why not just practice the self defense techniques? You are. Side Bar: I assume when you say traditional, that at least one of the focuses of training are the applications of the Kata. If not ignore the aforementioned post and find yourself a good self defense based art. If you do focus on the Kata's applications you literally practice self defense every time you perform the Kata.

I'd advise you to leave. It sounds like your instructors have fallen into the same mind set that the general public has of Yudansha (black belts), that its the end of the road and nothing could be further than the truth. This is where the real learning begins not ends. Your instructors should have classes strictly for the Yudansha. Which brings to question; when do they train? I assume that they are at least of Sandan grade or higher. Who teaches them? You might want to look to their teachers for instruction. As far as if you should be paying... well if you're not being taught anything what are you paying for? You're paying to do their job. I can't stand teachers that think that it is some how a privileged that is worth paying for. When we get to that level and are asked to start helping and teaching classes, notice I said asked - not everyone wants to teach, we are given the opportunity to do so outside of our classes and our due's are reduced or dismissed completely depending on how much time we spend teaching/helping. Your instructor needs to understand that you are helping him but this is not a requirement and it certainly doesn't replace being taught new information. Either he has a new teacher, which means you should not be paying but being paid or a student that might help out from time to time, which means he needs to teach you and concentrate on your improvement and growth as a martial artist. Putting you with White and Yellow belts is ridiculous. I bet that's a real challenge for you. Sorry that's sarcasm. I do not agree with Yudansha training with white belts every day. Nothing wrong with getting back to basics from time to time but every class? It's like you get to start over again. I'd leave and find a school/instructor that will invest in you and your training into higher grades. Just my 2 cents.

Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing. I do not practice this Kata but can appreciate it.

I’ll stick with the old adage “a body in motion stays in motion”. I’m old already and ain’t dead yet. Yes I’ve got a bad knee, bad shoulder, elbow and now have Plantar fasciitis but that’s not just caused by Karate. I’ve lived a rough life in general. But I’m still kicking. Don’t see myself changing any time soon. My Shinshii was 84 when he retired and still trains daily. My Judo instructor was 72 and throwing men in their teens and 20’s. I see no correlation between MA and shortened life span. Albeit probably not great for your joints but what sport or physical activity done for a lifetime is? No I think I’ll continue to train and let God determine when it’s time to go home.

Base on your two reasons; to the first I would agree 100%. All it takes anymore is an allegation of impropriety. To the second, if you're having problems with the kids attention being affected by their parents I would either speak to the parents and ask them to make sure their child's focus is on you/class or possibly ask them to wait outside until class is complete or at least until you've gotten the lesson across. But then I am a pretty direct person and some do not feel comfortable with this. Just my 2 cents.

I'm not sure I will ever change arts due to age. If you watch the old instructors on Okinawa they still teach the arts. The difference is their focus changes a bit. I think you can continue your art but you have to adapt yourself as you age.

Happy birthday Bob!

Not to copy Montana's post but my experience was the same. As a youngster I left an old style due to the fact that friends of mine were competing and had trophies proudly displayed in their rooms. I joined a "modern" tournament/trophy focused school and started competing. Tournaments were the rage and winning them put you on a higher pedestal and got you promoted faster. I was long and fast and after a year of competing I was developing techniques that worked exceedingly well in winning points. After the second year I was pulling in 1st and 2nd place wins in Kumite and Kata at local tournaments. My ego was bigger than my common sense and I began to believe the hype and thought I could not be beat. That and it was bolstered by the fact that I had risen up in grades and was now training with the brown belts and black belts. (I was a green belt, can't remember what grade that actually was as I ripped up my grades from this school) That same year I ran into a spot of trouble with a fellow student and, as boys of that age do, we decided to meet after school to settle our differences. The main difference between tournament sparing and actual real life fighting is you don't pull punches and their is no ref to stop you once a point is won. Well that is exactly what happened... I was faster and got around a dozen or more shots in before the kid even tried to hit me. I was pulling punches so they had next to no effect and I stopped after each successful strike for a split second, almost waiting for a ref to stop the fight. I also found that what works in point sparring doesn't work at all in a real fight. Long story short I went home to put ice on my eye, and ribs. My dad straightened my broken nose and my pride was lower than a snails belly. I had an overly inflated ego and thought I could not be beat. I was a menace in the Dojo and in tournaments but on the street I was nothing but a poser. Like Montana's friend I quit that next day and found a school that put absolutely no emphasis on competition and everything into teaching you how to actually defend yourself. I will say that I learned a lesson that I'll never forget. The kid beat me like a drum. I wasn't doing anything to deter him and was stopping after each successful hit so it was but a matter of time and... lucky shot and down I went. After I was down the kicks and stomps ensued and I went home tenderized to say the least. I personally have no issue with testing yourself in terms of speed, technique and mobility in the tournament setting and having that safety margin of no contact (I get it. I don't agree with it, but I get it). However I think that instructors do not differentiate and articulate the differences between the delusion that is point sparring and actual fighting and students get a irrational sense of security in their skills and worse the ingrain muscle memory in pulling their strikes which works against them in a real fight . I personally have not been back to a tournament since I quite that school (still around and has a window completely filled with trophies and inflated ego's) and I have never taken my students to a tournament.

Congrats! Well deserved.

nunopicado, welcome to KF!

Welcome to KF.

Years ago I was researching Okinawan Kata and where they came from. I had come across a Kata, I think Shito Ryu if memory serves me, that was specifically created for women by the name of Aoyagi. I ended up google searching it because I could not remember the exact name and whether it contain jump. It does not have the jump you are looking for but if you're looking specifically for a Kata created for women I'd say this is a good fit. Or at least meets the criteria.

I think it's possible for someone to take idea's and put them together to create something. I have no issue with someone training under someone that created their own "art". Having said that I would be highly suspicious of it's content and it's effectiveness and would vet what is taught. Finding a fraud is a lot easier than finding the real deal. Everyone has an innate ability to fight, to some extent. I see no reason that someone that has tried and tested their fighting theories in actual fights couldn't produce something just good and worth learning. The original founders did not have belts or ranks, they learned from several instructors and arts and tested it in actual combat. When properly vetted they combined what they had learned into what we have today. A belt is just a belt. It's what's behind that belt that counts. Having said that there is something to be said for earning grade in that it tells the student, at minimal, that they have experience. It's easy to say you've done this or that but the real test is on the floor where the knuckles meet the body. If they can back up what they say on the mat and on the streets then I see no reason that you shouldn't learn as much as possible from them. I'll take knowledge and skill over a belt any day.

What is the difference between buying a book and studying at home and what you’ve told us about you’re present situation? Students join a school to be taught and to receive direction from someone with the skills and knowledge that you do not possess. If your paying to learn from a book go buy one and keep your money. The whole point is the interaction between teacher and student. Expecting students to teach themselves is ludicrous. My advice... drop that school and the “instructors”, if you can call them that, like a bad habit and find a real teacher. I’m obviously doing something wrong and have wasted decades of training and teaching students. If I knew they taught themselves and I didn’t have to teach I could have taken up a new hobby and gone on more vacations. That’s not a martial arts school, it’s a scam. Don’t walk away, run!

Age only becomes a problem when ego is in the equation. If you doing it for the right reasons and not just to gain a certain belt/grade then it matters little what age you start at. Welcome to KF.

You got me there. I did not realize that the Mountain is silent. Touche!

Last one is mountain.