MatsuShinshii

Thanks Patrick. It was killing me to hold back for fear of ruining it for another member. First I need to get the Capoeira in this series out of my system. What's with the super secret, final, most advanced kick??????????? What are the producers thinking injecting some kick from another art and calling it the most advanced kick when it doesn't even exist in Okinawan arts? Second - did anyone else pick up that the characters had been shifted. Now Johnny is saving the weakling from getting destroyed. Flash back to Miyagi and skeletons pummeling Daniel anyone? And what is with Daniel and his ultra jerk move of kicking the cup out of the other salesman's hand. Seem like something the old Johnny would have done? It's like they flip flopped the two characters. Daniel comes off as a jerk in quite a few scenes and Johnny (although still stuck in the same mind set) comes off as a misguided Miyagi. Having said that it was a major flash from the past and is for the most part in keeping with the original movie. Biggest spoiler Creese (not sure how to spell his name) is back and I wasted my free membership. There will be more episodes!!!!! I wish I would have waited so I could have binged on all of them instead of rushing to sign up and then opting out. I guess I'll have to pay full price when the next set comes out. Darn it. Ok I think I left enough meat on the bone for others to spoil so end of my rant.

I would say it depends on the direction that you are moving and what the goal is of the movement. If the goal is speed the heel as Sensei8 eluded to, gives better foundation. Rotating on the heel does not allow for a quick technique because the weight is focused on it as apposed to the ball of the foot which can be quickly employed as a kick, lift to avoid a sweep of to move in another direction without taking the time to transfer your weight. It really depends on the stance, weight distribution and follow up technique.

So I went surfing the web and was only able to find a few websites on Che-lu. So on the face book site I was able to find a few pics and posts that I can only assume represents what is contained in Che-lu. I assume the following based on these pics and posts; 1. Che-lu is a form of Karate. Shows many picks of people in competition wearing Gi's and one post is titled Che-lu Karate. 2. Che-lu is also a form of Judo. One post is titled Che-lu Judo techniques. 3. Che-lu might contain Jujutsu. One post shows two competitors ground fighting although there is no direct evidence as nothing comes right out and says it. 4. One post states that the Che-lu black belt promotion is very prestigious and the most demanding and respected programs in the martial arts. Sorry but I've never heard of the art nor has it ever come to my attention in over 3 decades that we should look to Che-lu as an example of excellence in black belt testing. Not sure this statement as it is written can be considered true. 5. Che-lu might contain some form of Kenjutsu, Iaido or Kendo as the present Soke is shown in many pictures with a Katana. I'll hold any comments here. 6. There is a huge focus on competition. Many posts are focused around this topic. And one post claims that Che-lu has over 10,000 trophies. I was only able to find two Youtube vids. One shows kids kickboxing (Yellow belts). The other shows a kids class (white belts). There are two school websites. One in Somersworth NH and the other in Frankfort KY. Based on the pictures in these websites, and the best I can tell, the focus is on children and tournament competition. I was unable to find any direct information of what is taught (techniques, arts, etc.). They have a post titled Kata but no references to what those Kata are to be able to determine if they are Japanese, Okinawan or Korean. No Kata names so it's hard to know if these are Kata that were picked up and passed on or if they are an invention of the founder. Based on what I was able to find there is not enough information to give a good description of what Che-lu actually is. Its definitely competition based as seen in the Face book posts and Youtube vids but doesn't go into what the core foundation of the art is nor does it describe the arts that make it up, what grades the founder held in them, how long he studied them or for that matter anything to tell a martial artist what it is or why they should study it. My opinion is you should put more substantive information on the websites. I can't remember where I read this but on one site they claimed to be the most popular and fastest growing martial art. I personally have never heard of the art and it's hard to see how it could be with very little information for the would be student to form an opinion on. Don't get me wrong there are a lot of schools/arts that do not have websites or well made websites. I myself belong to an organization that's stuck in the stone ages so I'm not judging the art based on the website. However what can be found doesn't give a detailed description of the art, it's founder or the present head of the art itself but instead shows a lot of flash. Pictures of competitors with posts describing the techniques being used and a guess who one the fight? I can't tell if these competitors are Che-lu students or just random pics. As far as the art goes I can not form an opinion. So I can not judge the validity of the art nor do I think anyone else can. However I will say in my personal opinion, having a 25 yr old Judan doesn't send the right message to those that have studied traditional arts all their lives. To me it seems pretty McDojoish to say the least. But that is only one mans opinion.

I'd have a problem with this (25 / Godan) if actual ability and understanding of the system was the benchmark of grade but I would accept it more readily, as you could achieve this level if you started very young (I guess), than a 25 yr old Judan. Still wet behind the ears in terms of mastery in martial arts. Just not possible IMHO. TKD in Japan? Good catch Spartacus Maximus.

Agree 100%. Unfortunately this is common place for any movie these days.

Counter and close the gap. As a tall person myself it took years for me to buy into and become proficient with close range fighting. The natural range for those with longer arms and legs in long range. If you allow a taller person to utilize this range it's hard to beat them. They can cause damage while feeling safe from damage. By countering and closing the gap you take away their range of motion and cause them to move back to regain the range. Defending while moving backwards is not ideal and this gives you an advantage as long as you can maintain the range.

I'm in if it's next year. Too many expenses this year for me personally. Name the place. I'd love to meet and train with the KF members. It would be a great opportunity to show examples of what we post and a great way to put a face with a name.

TKD - Goju - Ketsugen - And I believe some Shorin and Shotokan, but I cant recall for sure - I know there were seven arts and a good portion of his training was at an authentic TKD monastery in Japan - as the story goes, he was a military son and he helped defend another kid in a street fight who was part of a monastery and was thus invited (as one of very few Americans) to train in the the monastery. I have no idea if this story is true, but it is what I was taught. - It is a shame that not more is shared about this art - That Kata's are beautiful - the core value was (in this order) Respect - Discipline - Intensity - over and over this is what we were taught - No disrespect but the story lines of the golden mantis, the dream of a tiger and dragon fighting and becoming one and the fact that he defended another kid who just happened to be a student in a TKD monastery in Japan and was invited as one of a handful of Americans has a movie just waiting to be made from it. Too reminiscent of Bloodsport, KungFu, etc. I've never heard of the art and am very wary when it comes to Westerner's creating their own art. They typically are a hodge-podge of techniques without true understanding of how to make them mold together. You mention Kata... What are the Kata? Do they have names we would recognize? Is there examples of them that can be watched (youtube, etc) What are the core principles and techniques of the art? Close techniques, long range techniques? What percentage split of punching/kicking? Etc., etc., etc. The question has been asked several times and we have gotten little more than a history lesson on the founder, his dreams and the like. What separates this art from others? How were the 7 arts put together and what are the 7 arts that you mentioned. How long did the founder study each of these arts? What grade (rank) did he attain in these arts? No disrespect but if you're going to introduce an art you should at minimum describe the art other than the history and Dojo Kun. How is it that a 25 year old holds a Judan? Get the duct tape because my head just exploded. Your art might be valid in terms of fighting but I can't buy into a 25 year old Judan.

Ive always had a difficult time with gis fitting. And practically every other piece of clothing. Once I find a clothing brand that fits, I buy as much as I can and hope they don’t change the cut in the future. I called Shureido USA 2 years ago or so to get advice on what size gi. I owned a K-10 about 15 years before, but I wasn’t exactly the same size. They had me on the phone for almost 50 minutes, measuring my then current gi and myself. Asking me where I wanted things to be longer, shorter, etc. They even had me text a picture of myself in my then current gi. They suggested a size 6, and told me how much it would shrink and where. They even put paper clips where they thought the shrinkage would end up. When the gi arrived, I put it on and thought “no way in hell is this going to fit.” My wife laughed and said “it looks like a dress!” She was right. The jacket came down to the top of my knee caps. Several wash and dry cycles later it was pretty close to where they said it would be. 2 years later, and it’s exactly where they said it would be. And they said the entire process would take about 18 months. I guess they really know their product. Yes sir. I've never had any luck going off the size charts and taking a guess at shrinkage. One of my peers told me that he always called and asked for the person doing the sizing (seamstress maybe????). Since then I will not buy a Gi unless I can talk to a live person. It costs a bit of time but it saves in aggravation. I used to buy larger and have them tailored. Now I just take some time on the phone and get a pretty well fitted Gi.

I won't be going. Too many expenses this year. But I love tallgeese's idea of a KF meet up.

The problem I have found over the years is no one manufacturer makes Gi's the same. I typically call and ask for someone with knowledge of fitting the Gi and has an understanding of the measurements. They will usually direct you towards the size that will fit you best. I actually buy one size for the top and another for the bottom in one brand. That is what was suggested by the manufacturer to get the best fit. I would suggest you call whoever you choose to buy from and discuss it before purchase. Have your measurements available and discuss issues you have had with other brands. This will allow them to figure out what will work best. I think you'll have a better experience and will not have to return Gi's. Don't be surprised if they suggest a larger size to allow for shrinking. I argued with a lady for 2 or more minutes that this size would never fit. She convinced me and after a few washes it fit like a glove.

I fully agree with the “advanced kick.” Pure rubbish, but you’re correct - it’s Hollywood. And I cringe every single time I see Seiunchin done in the original movies (2 and 3) and this series. Do it right or don’t do it at all. There’s many ways to do that kata, and NONE OF THEM are the way it’s done in the movies and series. And don’t make it even stupider by having it done to “focus” like it was done at times (without spoiling it). I know I sound like some kata snob saying that, but I’m genuinely not. Do it right or do something else IMO. Making up a kata would’ve been better than the hack job they’ve continually done. Rant over. Unless of course anyone agrees and picks up where I left off My turn. I can not stand how they some how have some super secret move in movies but the Kata's and Kihon that they are learning have nothing to do with it. Hollywood takes very liberal steps in most martial arts movies. I am the worse critic and some times ruin the movie for my friends because I'm constantly correcting the problems with the movie. I can envision the director saying, "no. That doesn't look right on camera. Lets do this instead. I know it's not a technique from that art and it's from a completely different continent but no one will notice". Its like they are making up their own art as they go but calling it "x". And I'm with you as far as the Kata goes. Do it right or don't do it at all. Drives me crazy! In the end it's just a movie. If we were looking for any accuracy whatsoever we would probably not entrust Hollywood to bring it to us. So you have a fellow critic that has the same issues with movies as you. Welcome to the club of cranky movie goers, friend. End of my rant.

What does your art teach? Shin or instep? In any art there is a method for striking, what weapon is to be used and how and what to strike on the opponent (target). If your practicing while using the instep in class every day, it would be silly and counter productive to condition your shins. Why? because you do not use this part of your body during training and thus would be less likely to use it in a real altercation. Condition what you train with and it will serve you when it's needed. I wouldn't suggest starting with a tire for conditioning. Everyone wants to get right to the finish line but in conditioning this could be literally the finish. You need to start out with soft targets and work your way up incrementally over a long time to harder and harder targets. Striking the edge of a steel belted tire with your instep or shin is going to do quite a bit of damage and possibly a break or damage to tendons, veins, etc. I used to think that having big gnarly knuckles was cool when I was a kid. I thought those that sported these grotesque knuckles must be able to hit anything. NOT the case. I have been training for over three decades and Makiwara (along with other equipment and conditioning methods) have been a daily regimen. My knuckles are not hideously deformed because I condition them correctly. Being able to strike without harm to yourself is the goal. Sporting huge purple swollen knuckles does not mean you are properly conditioned, it means you have done damage to them. Striking a tire and doing damage does little good towards achieving your conditioning goals and worse may put you backwards in your training if you do serious damage. Even striking the tire flat could do damage. If you condition correctly any body part can be used. Even fingers and toes.

There is nothing wrong with cross training in other arts. There is also nothing wrong with learning one art. Being a purist and having a main art that you study for a life time has it's advantages over art hopping. However being a purist doesn't necessarily mean you are not able to experience other arts or at least dabble in other arts. No one art is the answer for every martial artist. It really depends on what you're looking for and what best suites you. Cross train, don't cross train, there are benefits and problems either way. Do what is best for you. I consider myself a purist as I have spent more than 3/4 of my life time devoted to one art. Having said that I have also trained and studied other arts. I think you have to experiment to know what works for you and what doesn't. I see benefits in studying an art in depth but also see benefits in experimenting and trying new things. It's really up to the individual. There is absolutely nothing wrong with either. If the art has enough depth you can study it for a life time and feel like you have missed out on nothing. If not then there is always cross training.

Ok I did as suggested and got the free trial and have watched the series. I wont spoiler alert this time but I will say the series will continue past what is available to watch at this time. Makes me wonder if I should have waited until the entire series was out. Not sure how many times you can get a free trial????? I did like the subtle twists through out. I can't go too deep without giving away specifics but over all I think it was in keeping with the original (lessons). I liked it. For those that have already seen it, I disliked the so called "most advanced kick". Not at all in keeping with Okinawan MA. Okinawa meets Brazil type of thing. But then again there were many inaccuracies in the original and subsequent movies. It is after all a movie (Hollywood). All in all I enjoyed it and it brought back a bit of nostalgia.

Welcome to KF. You need to address this with the head instructor. State the facts as you see them and if brushed aside or dismissed then you have your answer and know that this comes from the top down. If not he will address his BB's and correct the issue. There is never a reason for senpai to abuse (verbally, mentally or physically) Kohai. However if the head instructor is Japanese you may find this is acceptable to him/her. I studied under a Japanese Sensei when I was younger and this was very much common place behavior. Students were very much treated like dogs by the senior students. If you find this is the case, find another school. Time is too short to waste it trying to learn from those that will not teach or hold back until you've reached some benchmark of acceptance. That and there are too many fine schools and teachers out there to waste time in an atmosphere like this.

OK, so not MY dojo... 1. So I know a school that has moderate tests (based on improvement) for Mudansha grades but once you test for Shodan and Sandan they are grueling and very much unforgiving tests. The Shodan on average takes 3 days and less than 40% pass the first try. The first day is all tests of knowledge and Kata. One must know every Kata up to Shodan and their applications (and be able to effectively implement them against an uncooperative opponent.) The second day is a test of conditioning, understanding of body mechanics, and the first rounds of Kumite against all Nikyu to Ikkyu in the school and from the other dojo's. The third day is nothing but Kumite. You fight every Yudansha each for three rounds. You don't have to win every fight but you do have to be able to continue and show that you are able to hold your own. Sandan is a bit different in that there is more emphasis on your knowledge of the art and it's history. Your ability to teach and again to fight. It lasts on average 2 weeks and less than 20% pass the first time. Not consecutively. The board might have you teach classes at your home dojo, then have you teach seniors at a different dojo and then finally teach at the Hombu to be judged directly by the board of senior instructors. You will be brought back to demonstrate your knowledge of the arts Kata and their applications. You then are brought back for the final test - 2 days of Kumite against every Yudansha in the organization. Again three rounds and again to be able to gut it out through the last opponent. In finding out why, the answer was that the previous grades were to assess improvement over the last time they tested and to see if the student had learned that grades curriculum. It was felt that in order to reach the grade of Shodan the student must have become proficient in what they had been taught and be able to prove that they could use that to defend themselves. If they could get through the grueling test and come out the other side they were worthy of the grade. In asking why Sandan was so drawn out I was given the answer that this is the grade in which students become eligible to teach. In order to maintain the quality and integrity of the art they had to proof the student before granting this grade. Once a student achieves this grade they are able to teach their own students and if they could not prove that they are able to teach they could would not be awarded this grade. They also had to be able to prove their skill in fighting. The thought was that if the teacher could not handle themselves in a fight they would not be able to teach others how to do so. 2. I heard about a teacher that only gave private lessons that would punish their students for every test they took. The guy that told me about this had a black eye and a few broken ribs. I asked what had happened and he told me about his test the night before. Apparently the instructor would beat the heck out of them and if they where able to with stand the torture they received their belt. That's all I have as most schools do not subscribe to this train of thought these days and this happened in the 70's and 80's when I was a younger version of myself. Now days I doubt you would here about such things. If you did it would most likely be on the news claiming abuse or assault. A call to ban the school and throw the instructor in jail would be the head line.

The argument has been put forward that our bodies are not meant for combat. OK lets go with that premise. So we don't have fangs or claws or razor sharp teeth, Our bone density is not that of a cow. We don't have horns. Heck we have many weaknesses, most of which has been pointed out in previous posts. I'll grant and agree with all of this. However it is my opinion that we possess the deadliest weapon on earth. It allows us to work through and overcome weaknesses. It created martial arts and allows us to learn these fighting techniques. It trumps any weapon found in nature. It is the reason we have weapons that make us the top of the food chain. Can't remember the last time I was huddled in my cave worried about an animal attack. We as a species have the most powerful natural weapon that exists. Our brains. Our hands were not meant to be balled into a fist to strike. And in yet our brains figured out that it could be used for this. It even figured out a way to strike properly so as to do maximum damage with little to no damage to ourselves and more importantly where to strike to effect maximum damage. Our bodies are weak. And in yet our brains figured out a way to strengthen them. Our bodies definetly have weakness. Our brains figured out a way to use this against our enemies and capitalize on this fact. For a weak inferior species not meant for combat we sure get our fair share of it. Since the dawn of time there has been disagreements between people and as such this has led to war (combat). First we use our bare hands to engage our enemies, then that darn brain of ours figured out how to gain an edge and we created weapons. Sticks and stones at first and then we created deadlier weapons as time went on. I would argue that although our bodies may not be fashioned for combat our brains sure are. Through proper training our bodies can and are forged into weapons whether they are meant for it or not. Another thought springs to mind. Although our bodies might not be meant for combat, we as a species have been engaging in combat since the dawn of time. If you turn on the nightly news at 11 you hear about it pretty much every night. Wars are started between countries, neighbors kill each other, etc., etc. It's funny but no one told me that my body wasn't meant for combat before being sent to war. Meant... maybe not but that never stopped the human race from engaging in it. Further more we are exceedingly efficient at it. I guess we need to answer the question, "if we are not meant for combat why then are we so efficient at it"?

All MA's are deadly. As a rule of thumb the majority of MA's were originally invented as an empty hand method of combat. Loose your sword or spear, grapple and strike. Most that state their MA is deadly as if others just trying to infer their art is somehow better or more efficient than any other MA. Having said that there is something to be said about an instructors responsibility in teaching the MA's. If employed correctly there are techniques that will kill. In understanding that as instructors it is our responsibility to pass this knowledge on responsibly. Meaning if your student is a psychopath you probably shouldn't teach them that if you do this it will crush the trachea or if you do this it will cause a hemorrhage in the brain and the person will die. Why? Because you know they will leave class and look for someone to try it on. I understand the need to find "worthy students" that you can teach your art. Having to say it's "deadly" to attract students is redundancy. Of course it's deadly. It was created to kill enemy combatants when one lost their weapon or were disarmed. Um, hello Mr. obvious, comes to mind.

The human body is such that it can be conditioned to deal with any situation short of being shot or stabbed. The idea that we are fragile is true in terms of most anything else in nature. You shoot a deer in the lungs and heart and it runs a 1/4 mile before succumbing to it's injuries. You shoot a human in the lungs and heart and they drop where they stand. Having said that we don't fight animals in combat, we fight other humans. Those same frailties are shared with our enemy. Are we designed for combat? Only God can answer that question but as long as there has been human beings there has been combat and violence. The real question is why would you not train the body for combat? Whether designed or not the cold hard truth is there are those that would seek to do us harm. Whether the human fist is designed to punch or write is semantics. If attacked you're not going to write to defend yourself. The fact that we can form a fist and condition it to the extent that we can do damage with it is all the proof I need that it's a natural weapon and not just for writing. If we were not designed for combat why then do we have the weapons for combat? Yes we have to train to make them effective but this is true of any task. Practice makes perfect. We are not born with the ability to do whatever job we chose as a profession. We have to train to learn it. Why then would this be any different?

Congrats. Well deserved.

Congrats Patrick, all of the moderators and members here at KF. Lets make it 18. AAAHHHH! To be 17 again.

Welcome to KF. We're glad to have you.

Congrats! Quite an accomplishment.

I have t-shirts and sweat shirts that were given to me by my Shinshii and the association. I wear them and others like USMC shirts, hunting shirts (real tree, red head, mossy oak, etc), school (college) shirts, etc. etc. I pretty much wear what ever is clean. Having said that I don't "sport" my MA shirts. I wear them because they are there and clean.