Treebranch

In a real situation will tactics prove to be more effective than strength? Why? or Why not?

BLH28 70 miles to take BJJ when you have Judo and Jujutsu at your disposal. Don't be so taken by the hype that BJJ has.

Dude, relax. I'll try to get the specifics of who it was and what demonstration. My teacher doesn't lie about stuff like that and he wasn't bragging either. He was just telling us that we should go and spar with people outside our MA to see if we're doing our techniques right. He was at some demonstration and decided to spar with them, they tend to invite people to spar with them when they do demonstrations and such. It's really not that big of a deal. It wasn't a match between anyone, it was just sparring.

His name is Derek Thompson he's officially 2nd Dan Budo Taijutsu, but he's probably more like 5th Dan. He's gone to a few demonstrations they had and they invited people from the crowd to spar and he did. They were very surprised that he was so hard to submit. As I said he submitted them and vice versa, why is that so hard to believe? I think it was some of the instructors as well as some of the students.

That's why BJJ is an incomplete MA.

Well guys I have alot of respect for what BJJ has done, but it is the off spring of TJJ. It is closer to Judo than it is to TJJ. I study very old JJ and my teacher has sparred with the Machados and they were impressed with his skills. He submitted them a few times and vice versa. So both arts are valid, no one art is better. Better is the practioner that trains hard.

Take the Judo Jujutsu. It's closer and you will get alot out of it. Hopefully it's a good school. Study for a couple of years and go to BJJ school for a few lessons I'm sure the transition will be easy for you once you are proficient in Jujutsu and Judo. Neither of these Arts are better than the other. Better is a matter of taste not a matter of fact.

I'd say Grappling Arts. There are plenty of grappling arts that have plenty of strikes in it, so in a way Grappling Arts for the most part are very well rounded.

Well if Krav Maga has Jujutsu in it, then you will see similarities in Ninjutsu as well. Modern Ninjutsu is really Old Jujutsu with 3 Ninjutsu schools mixed in with it. It is not pure Ninjutsu. It is basically Samurai fighting arts mixed with some Ninjutsu. If they are taught properly, they are both very effective systems of fighting.

Where do I sign up?

Try to download Jujutsu clips off the net, but don't get too caught up in the locks. Look at what the person is doing with his feet and whole body. The locks only work with your body behind it.

TJS said: You hit on a very important point. It's really not that Judo throws are better, there training was. Must Judo throws require you to bend your back when you throw. If you are well trained, this can be used to your advantage. Your balance is more stable with your back straight. Also, you should check out some Budo Taijutsu throws that are pretty wicked. Most of what we do is grappling, locks and chokes. The strikes create space and the opportunity for the throw or lock. It's much harder to just go in there and start grappling, it takes alot of energy and strength. The strikes help loosen the person up a bit and in that reactive moment you take them down. :)

Kirves the idea is to be well rounded. If you study a well rounded MA's that's based on realistic situations you'll be O.K. We train to defend ourselves, escape, maim, kill, subdue etc.. I think the more you know the better and I think you missed the point of my statement. A fight in the ring is controlled, the other person's intention is to win. The intentions of an attacker are unknown and he may be carrying a weapon or have friends waiting to jump you. So I prefer to train for those situations. Don't get me wrong I respect ring fighters, but just because it works in the ring doesn't mean diddly squat to me.

Good point TJS. Your right about the Police wanting a grappling system for subduing someone, an effective MA that doesn't rely of striking to much. I feel that it should be noted that true Jujutsu is a more well rounded system of fighting and had it been an all out death match (anything goes) the results would have been different. Not to say these Judoka of those days didn't also have Jujutsu backgrounds and would have probably held their ground. It's just that the particular competition only proves that Judo won a competition in an controlled environment for a specific purpose. Even Kano knew that Judo was not effective for the battlefield. Another little interesting note to make is that the Toyko Police at the lower ranks are trained in Judo and Karate. The higher ranking officers are trained in Jujutsu. I think that says alot.

Great articles! Noting that the period in which this took place was for the most part very peaceful, this was truely a contest. Judo is great and Kano was nothing short of a genius. Although, there was no mention of striking which Jujutsu of old had plenty of. This period of Japan would have probably been forbidden dirty fighting in competition. Old Jujutsu is really dirty and has lots of brutal strikes in it. I see alot of Jujutsu today with almost no strikes in it and it really is an imcomplete art without strikes. Not to take away from Judo, but it's not at all what it was in Kano's day and Jujutsu really is making a comeback.

Just like many MA's that are very effective, Bruce Lee wasn't trained for this type of match and in the early UFC's probably would have done alot better than all those bozos representing Kung Fu. Even though Bruce Lee was really talented you have to keep in mind he was primarily an actor. I don't really think UFC is the only way to measure the effectiveness of a MA.

Icetuete I don't know how far Frankfurt is from you, but there's a Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu Dojo there. Check on the internet for locations in Germany. If you are serious about learning MA's and you think this is something you will do your whole life I highly recommend Budo Taijutsu.

Are you talking about ground fighting or grappling? Similarities in both, but different to. At least in Budo Taijutsu which really Old Jujutsu most of the grappling is done standing. You can throw someone and stomp their head, that's an effective finish. Often the throw breaks the person's arm, it's pretty much over don't you think? I would recommend staying on your feet in a real situation because the person may have a weapon. That's why learning to control someone in a standing position is so essential. You can also choke them out in a standing position. After you've trained enough and have good Taijutsu alot of options open up to you in the moment. Most people don't really understand how balance works. If you have a good teacher he will probable teach you the balance points and how to take advantage of them, in unison with using the person's strength and momentum against them. Remember Jujutsu is grappling and has striking in it as well. Some Jujutsu has enought striking that you could just use the striking aspect of it and be very effective.

The best thing is to find a good teacher. Combative MA's depends on whether you have a good teacher teaching a Combat MA. The Art is not irrelevant, because a good student might see beneath the surface.

I heard from someone that there was going to be a FIGHT CHANNEL on cable. This was supposed be happening pretty soon. That would be awesome! Boxing, wrestling, judo, karate, ufc, pride, k-1, fencing, kendo, etc. I wish.

I'd be really careful of what type of weapons you carry around. You don't want appear to be a nut.

Certain MA's can't compete because certain MA's teach not to limit your options in a fight. As we all know competition fights have rules and set variables. For example, I study a Combat MA and I know that I would be limited if I stepped into the ring. Someone that fights and trains in the ring would have a distinct advantage over me, until I've had enough ring training to really feel comfortable in there. But if that same person attacked me on the street the outcome would be very different, I promise you. There are infinite variables in a real fight and also you can flee if necessary. There's nothing wrong with getting the hell out of there.

Martial Artist said: There is no such thing as "cheating" in a street fight. Everything and anything goes, that's survival.

The MA's that compete are sports and sports have rules. This is not a judgement on Sport Arts it's simply what they are.

The only info I have is based on what I've read and was told by my teacher. Takamatsu the previous grandmaster was a Jujutsu Master that had possession of the scrolls that were passed down to him by his teachers. The scrolls contain techniques and training methods that were taught to him by his teachers. I would like to pick up a copy of the book you mentioned and I checked it out at the book store, very cool book. There is so much to Jujutsu that so many people don't know about, it's truely an amazing MA. I can't tell you how many people have challenged me and doubted the effectiveness of what I'm being taught. After a few what if I do this or what I do thats, they see very quickly that it doesn't really matter. The angles and the way we are taught to move our bodies usually is enough to snuff almost any attack. Of course experience and lots of randori and some full contact help tremendously. I think it's very important to train both hard and soft, which Kata Collectors mostly just train soft.