JR 137

Welcome to the forum, Keith.

Thank you very much. It’s turning out to be a great day so far.

You beat me to it, hammer. Great to see you.

Osu! I mean, yes But seriously... what you say makes sense. I’m not sure if that’s truly accurate, but it sounds logical. Funakoshi was quite a bit before Oyama’s Kyokushin days, so perhaps not. Oyama trained under Funakoshi for some time, so perhaps he got it from there? Extremely unlikely. I’m pretty sure it was his own thing and not Funakoshi’s nor Yamaguchi’s (Goju Kai).

When I was a white belt testing for my orange belt. Why? Well every test since has been physically harder. But my body has been prepared for it so that cancels out the increasing physical toughness. But more importantly, my mind is prepared. I know roughly how long a test lasts. I know that, for example, once they stop asking us to show off kicks and kick oriented combos, they'll ask us to demo hand techniques. Or once we start demonstrating forms, it's only a few forms then one fight, break a board, then we're about done for the day. Whereas testing for my orange belt, I had no idea. All of knew was I was exhausted, drenched in sweat, and they kept asking us to do more and more things. I had no idea how much longer I'd be on the floor. Or how much longer I could remain on the floor without ending up actually, on the floor. My 9th kyu test was easily the 2nd most difficult test for the reasons you mention. I had no idea what to expect. We had that one at a public park with all the satellite dojos testing together for each rank. The worst part about it was there were 3 or 4 guys in front of me that had previous experience, unbeknownst to me. They were kicking way over their heads and made everything look easy. They were the only ones I could see, and because I didn’t know any better, I figured everyone else was like them and I was going to fail because I sucked compared to them. My sensei at the time thought that was pretty funny when the test was over.

Congratulations on the promotion, Shinzentai! My shodan test was easily the most physically demanding thing I’ve ever done. It was about 5 hours long with no realistic breaks. Put it this way - I brought a regular sized water bottle (1 liter?) and drank about half of it the entire time. I tested with 1 other guy, and it was the first black belt test my sensei ran by himself. Prior to my test, the head of our organization ran all dan testing with the various dojo owners and other yudansha assisting. My sensei withdrew from the organization about 2 weeks before my test. Test test was closed to everyone but the adult black belts in our school. We were told we’d start at 9 am, and he’d be there at 8 to give us time to warm up and stretch because warmup wasn’t going to be done during testing time. At 9 exactly, we bowed in and went right into it. First thing was basics. We had a black belt holding a pad a kicking shield in front of each of us, and sensei says “100 front kicks with your right leg. Go.” The with the left leg. We ended up doing front kick, roundhouse, side kick, hook kick, inside-out and outside-in crescent kicks, and back kick. Then came hand techniques - punches, various shuto, tetsui, etc. After all that he says “now that you’re warmed up, we can begin.” Begin?!?!? We do a bunch of different stuff. Everything with and without a resisting black belt partner. After about 20 minutes, says “that’s the white belt syllabus.” 20 minutes later, “that’s the advanced with belt syllabus.” And on and on until we re-tested every kyu rank syllabus. He had a guy carrying the entire syllabus for him so he could look at it from time to time in case he missed anything. After all that he says “I’ll let you catch your breath while we do kata.” We did every kata in every series without stopping. Ie “Taikyoku 1-3. Go.” “Pinan 1-5. Go.” “Sanchin, Gekisai Dai, Yantsu, Saiha, Tensho. Go.” In retrospect, that was the easy part. Then we were told to put on our sparring gear. “And drink some water while you’re at it.” The only water we drank. 20 two minute rounds of knockdown rules sparring with a fresh black belt every round. The we sparred each other for a 3 minute round. We had a huge burst of energy because we knew it was the end of the test and we wanted to finish strong. About 30 seconds into it, and I’m sure we looked like zombies because we were so tired and beat up. We sat down afterwards, and he called us up individually to tie our new belts on us, said a few things about each of us, and that was that. The other guy I tested with is still a student there, and he’s his highest ranking student. He was just promoted to 5th dan. I went to my former sensei’s dojo a few months ago for a seminar. I hadn’t seen them in about 15 years. We started talking about our shodan test, and there were a few laughs. My former sensei admitted that it was the hardest test he’s ever given. He said it was his first one so we were the guinnea pigs. And he knew we could handle it. He’s eased up a bit on the intensity, but he still goes through the entire syllabus (my buddy holds it for him ) and still ends it with 20 rounds of sparring. He gives them more water breaks though. From what I’ve heard, my upcoming shodan test in Seido wont be much different. Only it’ll be spread out over a few evenings instead of all in one day (although there is that option every now and then). I’ve got quite a while to prepare. Thanks for letting me reminisce, Shinzentai.

You won’t hear “oss” but you may hear “osu.” My understanding is that it started out as a Kyokushin thing. If not, I’m pretty sure Kyokushin turned it into the phenomenon it is. I’ve heard some Shotokan schools use it, some never heard of it, and some despise it. It all depends on the dojo and/or Shotokan branch, I guess. I’ve even heard BJJ guys use it. That one threw me off a bit - a Brazilian guy training BJJ osu’ing people. And yes, at first it’s quite annoying. And you feel stupid saying it. Then you start saying it outside the dojo every now and then. Then it you finally control it, although every now and then you get the urge to use it outside the dojo. Both main schools I’ve attended use it heavily. Then there’s those individuals who go above and beyond with it. There’s been a person or two at both dojos I’ve trained at who annoyed me with it, and that takes some skill to do. Using osu is like bowing in the beginning. If you always bow stepping on and off the floor, when you first started did you find yourself fighting the urge to bow when leaving a store or work? I did and so did a lot of others I know. I remember one guy a few weeks after he started training saying he bowed to the room as he walked out of a meeting at work. The Okinawan karate guys (not Okinawans themselves) I know tell me we’re so annoying with how often we say osu. I worked out at an Okinawan dojo for a summer one year (Seiyu Oyata’s RtuTe Renmei) run by an American guy. They said “hai” just as often, if not more often, and all the same ways we say osu. But yeah, we’re annoying and they’re not As sensei8 said and most repeated, “When in Rome” or better yet, “when in an osu dojo” or when in a hai dojo”... And in the meantime, may the osu be with you.

Quoted posts are getting way too long for me... MatsuShinshii, Seido Juku has the tradition of wearing a white belt for a period of time (several weeks) leading up to a dan test. My CI tested for 7th dan a few months before I joined. He wore his white belt while teaching. He lined up as a white belt and took several classes under assistant instructors during that time as well. I’ve inadvertently spotted white belts in several of the yudansha at our dojo’s bags. A lesson/lecture that always sticks out during conversations like this... When I was promoted to 1st kyu during my first stint, my sensei’s teacher gave us a great lecture and lesson about rank. After it was all done and we sat down, he had one of us come up to the front and demonstrate a kata. He then had the student take off his new brown belt tied his own 7th dan belt on him. Everyone was puzzled, and he said “do the same kata again.” After which he said “was there any difference? Did the belt give him some magical powers?” After which he took his belt off and held it in front of saying “if I promoted you to this rank right now, what are you going to do with it? Wave it in someone’s face? Do you really think that’ll scare anyone off or save your butt when it comes time to? The rank doesn’t make you, you make the rank.”

Sorry.. Then perhaps the other fella says "No you hang on a minute" as he pulls out his false teeth dentures and puts them in his pocket. The ultimate fight, Martial Artist vs. Hockey player. I lived with a hockey player in college. He used to leave his dentures at home when we went out drinking because he didn’t want to lose them in a drunken stupor. He wasn’t the only one on that team with dentures. Needless to say, they weren’t very good.

To the bold, this is a student. I would enforce the wearing of the white belt as well. In total agreement with your instructor. My question is, if you accept these students who insist on wearing belts from other schools/organizations/styles of MA, what kind of students are they actually going to turn out to be? Ones that expect their way every time? That precedent has already been set from day one. Will they cherry pick techniques rather than actually learn the techniques’ context within the art, let alone the entire art (or as much as an entire art can possibly be learned)? Wanting or better yet insisting on wearing a belt from elsewhere says a lot about the prospective student to me. And not very much of it is good, to put it mildly. My CI had a great line in there somewhere. It went along the lines of “how ridiculous would it be for me to expect to wear my 7th dan belt and be treated as a 7th dan on my first day as a judo student? I’d be just like everyone else who stepped onto a judo mat for the first time - a white belt.” I really can’t top that line.

I can pretty much everything you said common sense. But my question becomes more apparent every day, unfortunately - why is it called “common sense” when it’s just not very common? It seems common sense becomes less common everyday. Maybe it’s just me.

Wearing a black belt in a dojo outside your organization needs a bit of context. My CI has a good relationship with a judo teacher who’s dojo used to be next door to our dojo (they shared a wall). The judo instructor would come to our dojo and teach our students some judo stuff. My CI would go to his dojo and do the same. They’d wear their own belts. Why? They were guest instructors. This was before I joined, unfortunately. The judo teacher has moved a few hours away, but he has made trips back since. Last time was a few weeks before I joined. My former sensei had a childhood friend who moved to Japan and earned godan in jujutsu. He came back home for several months when his father passed away so he could get his father’s affairs in order. He regularly worked out at our karate dojo and taught us jujutsu stuff while he was here. He wore his belt and gi. He was a long-term guest of sorts, and him and my sensei at the time were learning from each other. Neither one was seeking rank nor formal training from each other. Both of the above situations (and ones like it) are perfectly acceptable reasons to wear your own belt in someone else’s dojo IMO. They’re not formal students and not looking to advance in rank. They’re exchanging information. Then there’s the people my CI told me about over the years. One was a judo sandan who wanted to join our dojo. He was told he’d have to start out as a white belt and earn ranks like everyone else. If he learned the material at a faster pace, he’d promote faster. If not, he wouldn’t. The guy couldn’t understand, or better yet refused to accept, why his judo rank didn’t transfer to our karate dojo. He felt he earned his 3rd dan and should be allowed to wear his belt as he saw fit. My CI told him he respected his judo rank, but he hasn’t earned any rank in his dojo. The guy walked out. Numerous TKD and other karate style students also didn’t join because they thought they should be allowed to wear the belt they earned elsewhere. I told my CI my previous experience when I first visited. My former teacher was a former student of his former teacher (if you can follow that one ). He didn’t doubt my former rank nor experience, it he told me “you can’t wear your old belt here, as it wasn’t earned under me nor anyone else in our organization. You’ll start at white belt, and you’ll advance through the ranks according to how well you do. I won’t hold you back and I won’t push you through. You’ll most likely promote a lot quicker than average, but it’ll be because you earned it here.” I told him “I just want to train, regardless of what belt I’m wearing. I’d rather start over and earn every belt.” Other schools offered to let me wear my old belt. I guess in this day and age they’re afraid of losing potential students. I don’t agree with that at all, but they’ got to do what it takes to pay the bills I guess. I liked my former sensei’s policy on students with previous experience - he’d have them wear a white belt for 3-6 months, then promote them to the rank he felt they were at. Most people accepted that rank and stayed. Some left after he granted a rank because it wasn’t the rank they wanted. Long story short - if you’re a guest who’s not looking to be a formal student, wear your belt. If you’re looking to be a formal student, start at white belt. Most importantly, shut up and train. If you can’t train while wearing a different belt, why are you really training anyway?

Congrats shortyafter

The why is sometimes more important than the how. As a science teacher, I always tell my students why they’re learning what I’m teaching them. I found out early in my career that when I give them real world examples of what I’m teaching, they’ll pay attention. I teach grades 4-9 science, so it’s not like I’m going into any serious depth with the material; but that doesn’t stop me from showing them the in-depth stuff. Here’s an example... I teach motion in many grades. As they get older and are more capable of actually using it, I teach them more in-depth math. F=MA, Speed = D/T, stuff like that. They hate math and commonly say “I thought this was science, not math.” Then I take them outside and have them sprint. We measure the distance, and I time them. We go back to the classroom and calculate how fast they ran. They love it. I also tell them that these formulas are what police are using to figure out accidents, pilots use them to figure out when they’re going to land, how much fuel they’ll need, etc. They hear that and it becomes something useful rather than just stuff they need to know to pass a test they don’t even really want to take. Same thing when I teach anything - human body systems, rocks, etc. Even when they’re incapable of actually using what I’ve shown, they understand they need to crawl before they walk. If I just blabbed on and on about the facts and never gave them a realistic connection, I’d easily lose them. I know this because I made this mistake my first year or two. I didn’t explain why they were learning what I was teaching nor where it would go in the future. Getting them to learn it was like pulling teeth. Quite honestly, they didn’t care; and a lot of that was my own fault. Teaching is teaching, and it makes no difference what you’re teaching; the principle is the same - teach them why they’re learning what you’re teaching, and you’ll have them. If it’s obvious to them in their mind that what they’re learning is just to pass a test, they’ll check out. Especially if they’re paying customers! Even if the why isn’t possible yet at their developmental level, if they see it, they’ll understand why and will stick around for when the time is right. If you don’t show why, they most likely won’t be around for when the time is right for them to actually understand and apply it. They’ll have moved on long ago.

Can't say... Tae Kwon Do seems to be holding. Yup, TKD’s holding. Is there enough room for both is the question. Will it split TKD’s fan base and doom both? I don’t see them as distinct enough from each other in the layperson’s eye to coexist. But that’s just me. And I’m a karateka and I find WKF sparring pretty boring. How much of the general public will find it interesting enough to sustain it? Only time will tell the answers to all those questions and more.

Everyone’s getting excited about karate being in the Olympics, either excited in a good way or a bad way. I honestly think it’s just wasted energy as it’ll most likely not be included permanently after the Japan Olympics. Every host country gets to add a few events as a trial/demonstration, and karate was chosen by Japan. In order to be kept, it needs to be hugely popular in viewing and replaced another permanent event. I hate to say it, but I don’t think it stands a chance of making it past Japan. I’d love to see it happen, but I’d easily wager a large sum of money against it happening solely out of being realistic. As hard as it was to get in, it’ll be 100x harder to stay in.

Yup. Several organizations and boards were considered for the ones in charge of setting rules of competition and qualification to compete. WKF was awarded those rights because of their level of organization. I’m pretty sure they had to change some stuff to be in compliance with the IOC. Many other organizations made a bid to be the governing body, but it went to the WKF. The WKF isn’t allowed to make its own rules; the rules need to be approved by the IOC. As far as approved kata goes... The WKF has recently expanded the approved kata list to include some kata from styles from groups that were largely excluded previously. There’s a few Uechi Ryu and Kyokushin kata. They’ve also expanded what’s acceptable in the standardized kata - Oyama made some relatively big changes to kata; Oyama’s changes are now allowed, or better yet and not penalized for drifting from the norm. Don’t take any of that as me being pro-WKF. I’m not a fan of their sparring AT ALL. I’d have loved to see knockdown rules for kumite. I think WKF’s sparring has too much in common with TKD sparring to the non-MAist’s eye to really set it apart like it should. They’d have been no mistaking knockdown competition for TKD sparring in the Olympics IMO. I’d have loved to see a side of karate sparring be presented that a lot of people don’t see normally. Instead, we get the stereotypical point fighting. WKF rules won out because they were easily the most well-organized, not because they’re the best rules for demonstrating what karate competition is all about. I agree with the IOC’s decision, but I don’t like it. But I’m glad kata will also be an event.

I do too. I can't wait for season 2. I’m looking forward to season 2. I think (and hope) it’ll be about Johnny and Kreese. Hoping for a Johnny vs Kreese fight. I’ve read that the guy Daniel fought in 3 was signed as a character for season 2. I didn’t see anything official; the reporters said it came from the actor and not from any studio sources. I really hated 3. I don’t think I’ve actually been able to watch the entire movie all the way through, although I have seen the entire movie in bits and pieces. It’s just bad IMO. Actually, I think I watched the whole thing the first time I saw it. It was like watching a sinking ship. If the guy he fought is in season 2, it could be a pretty interesting storyline if done right - Kreese brings him in and there’s a ton of tension between the three of them. Maybe we should start a season 2 predictions/what we’d like to see thread after this one’s run a bit?

And I really like the shout out to the “Daniel was the real bully” YouTube video when Johnny was telling Miguel about his quarrels with Daniel

As far as the MA in it goes... yeah. If you’re watching it as a MAist, forget it. It’s to be expected though. Actual MA isn’t flashy and doesn’t translate well to the screen. As MatsuShinshii said, the kick was stupid. But what can you expect? They ended the original with a stupid and unrealistic kick. They had to use a seemingly impossible kick to end it again. While that one annoyed me, it’s nothing compared to the real offender... Seiunchin. They butchered it in I think 2, outright butchered it in 3, and continued to do so this time around. Every single thing thing about it is just awful - eliminating steps, adding those spinning kicks while they’re on the docks, and perhaps more annoying, the application. Every time Johnny’s son moved his arms to focus made more angry. Completely stupid and doing kata as a whole a disservice. Seiunchin is my favorite kata, so maybe I’m overly sensitive here though.

I wasn’t surprised by any of Daniel’s flaws. He was a hot-head in the movies, and Miyagi was the one who showed him the errors of his thinking. The difference is he was a teenager then and an adult now. I also wasn’t surprised that he didn’t stand up to his wife and daughter when he had strong feelings things were wrong. Instead his wife made him feel ashamed for being strict. His wife was ok with their daughter having the friends over for a party while they were out at the country club. I wasn’t surprised that Daniel allowed his wife and daughter to make him the bad guy in that ordeal. He had problems sticking up for himself in the movies, and this is simply the adult version of that flaw. Instead of saying “I don’t care if I embarrassed her when I threw out the kids who had a party behind my back,” he was trying to apologize by making a special breakfast and appeasing his daughter and wife. He knew he was right, yet he didn’t stand his ground. Same for pretty much every other family issue. But his wife is also a Miyagi of sorts - she often makes him see his errors. However unlike Miyagi, her ways aren’t always the best way. I really liked what they did with the Johnny character. They made him human instead of him being a pure evil and one dimensional character. We quickly realize that Johnny didn’t live the wonderful and care-free life we thought he did. Johnny reminds me of a lot of kids I’ve dealt with as a teacher - he wants to do the right thing and straighten things out, but someone or something external gets in his way and he resorts to his old self. His (and those kids’) flaw is he can’t let things slide and move on. You come at him with a BB gun, and he’ll retaliate with a rocket launcher. Both are hung up on “the good old days.” Johnny far more so, but Daniel definitely is too. Johnny can’t handle the fact that he didn’t get everything he wanted and/or thought he would get in life. He lets situations control his reactions rather than trying to follow through with what’s right. For a tough guy and fighter, accepts defeat too easily when he can’t get his way through physical means - he wants to be a part of his son’s life again until his son reminds him he’s a deadbeat; he backs off when his ex tells him it’s too late to be a father. If he can’t punch and kick his way out of it, he’s out of ideas.

Kids must be allowed to be kids. No other way around it. Sparticus Maximus hit the nail on the head with his posts. The more games and competition, the better. That doesn’t mean games the entire time with a sprinkling of karate thrown in; it means games which teach and reinforce the fundamentals of karate. Before starting to come up with a curriculum and teach it, one should really define why they are teaching karate to children and what are the desired outcomes and goals. “Teaching kids” isn’t very descriptive nor will it get enough insight from us, as there’s such a range in ages. What age group(s)? There should ideally be separation of different age groups, ie 4-6, 7-10, 11-13, etc. There’s a night and day difference between teaching these age groups. Keeping kids of all these ages together is a recipe for disaster. This would be almost as bad as keeping a 16 year old with an 80 year old in the same class. At least the 16 year old would hopefully have some patience, unlike the youngest kids. If you define your desired outcome, you’ll have an easier time with your expectations and planning. IMO the point of teaching kids karate is a very simple one - to teach them the physical foundation of the art, and to get them to love training and want to continue it as an adult. The goal isn’t to teach perfection of technique nor is it to turn them into warriors. No matter how hard you try to achieve those goals, you never will. Look at kids playing other sports football (soccer), basketball, etc. No matter how hard coaches may try to get them to play as a team by spreading out and moving the ball around efficiently, all that ends up happening is the kids crowd around the ball and just kick it anywhere or throw it anywhere. The ball typically ends up in the goal or basket more by luck and chance than by actual skill. Strategy is way over their heads because their brain isn’t capable of understanding it. Looking at it through that lens, karate is absolutely no different. Forget strategy and tactics. Look into basics - block, punch, kick. A thing I’ve noticed is kids struggle with kata too. Thinking about it, how necessary is it for them? The younger, the less necessary, yet I see teachers spending far too much time with it with them. What is “the spirit of budo?” Is it polishing the basics over and over again without questioning the teacher, doing exactly as he says when he says it like in those old movies? Or is it a lifelong love of karate? Is it physical or mental? Absolutely teach values such as respect, discipline, hard work, etc. Absolutely teach fundamental movements and techniques. But keep it realistic and reasonable.

One recent article said he was a blue belt.

Great post. Especially the “nature’s little baseball bat.” I’ve got to remember that line.

Ive always had a difficult time with gis fitting. And practically every other piece of clothing. Once I find a clothing brand that fits, I buy as much as I can and hope they don’t change the cut in the future. I called Shureido USA 2 years ago or so to get advice on what size gi. I owned a K-10 about 15 years before, but I wasn’t exactly the same size. They had me on the phone for almost 50 minutes, measuring my then current gi and myself. Asking me where I wanted things to be longer, shorter, etc. They even had me text a picture of myself in my then current gi. They suggested a size 6, and told me how much it would shrink and where. They even put paper clips where they thought the shrinkage would end up. When the gi arrived, I put it on and thought “no way in hell is this going to fit.” My wife laughed and said “it looks like a dress!” She was right. The jacket came down to the top of my knee caps. Several wash and dry cycles later it was pretty close to where they said it would be. 2 years later, and it’s exactly where they said it would be. And they said the entire process would take about 18 months. I guess they really know their product.