JR 137

Interesting post, DaveB. I think a lot of the earlier changes such as elimination of throws, locks and chokes was due to introducing karate to mainland Japan. It has been speculated that he needed karate to be distinct from others (judo included) to be accepted in the school system.

The problem is there's no place to shop around, so I have to ask opinions. It would be great if a store in the mall carried several lines of gis. I wonder if there's some sort of storefront in Manhattan that carries MA stuff. You can find everything and anything there, so there must be one somewhere. I used to live 45 minutes away from there and never saw one or heard of one though. Shureido and Tokaido are karate's most famous gi brands. Unless I'm wrong, and I very well might be, they're the original high-end karate gis. Tokon is very popular everywhere else where it's sold as Kamikaze. It's called Tokon in the States due to copyright issues, I'm lead to believe.

Thank you again. I've got to look up sizes because I can't remember what size my old one was. I saw measurement charts somewhere. If I need different sizes, Okinawadirect may be my best bet. No matter what I get, I always have to have the sleeves and legs hemmed.

Thank you Chiliphil. Have you ordered from them? If you're in the U.S., did you have to pay import taxes, and if so, how much? I don't want to order something thinking I'm going to save $50 and find out I have to spend more than the savings in tariffs, and wait 3 weeks on top of that. I don't mind waiting a bit for shipping, but if I'm only saving a few bucks when's all said and done, then there's no point. I don't know anyone who's imported stuff like this before, so I don't know what I'm getting in to.

Sorry... Discountmas.com has the K-11 for $165 and K-10 for $215. Where is the $100 or so Shureido? Or is it a different model? Can't find anything less expensive. Shureido USA has a KA-9 listed as a children's beginner's gi, but no price and I can't find any info anywhere on it. Seems like it's nothing special, but I've never seen it. Any experience with it?

Thank you for the replies. I'm about 90% sure I'm going with a Shureido at this point. Have either of you directly compared the K-10 and K-11? Is the K-11 pretty much the same gi, just a bit lighter? I think it is, but I've never seen the K-11 in person. My dojo gets pretty hot, and if I could get a lighter version on my old K-10 without sacrificing any quality, that would be as close to perfect as I think I could get. Money's tight right now, but Father's Day is coming, as is my 39th birthday a week afterward. Maybe a combined gift with the difference thrown in by me, and I can eliminate buyer's remorse. But the Tokon gis have me intrigued. Maybe get a K-11 now, and a Europa next summer when I get rid of $1200/month of daycare. I'm very curious about the Europa vs Spirit comparison too, if anyone has insight. Also, I know if I buy a new K-10, I'll find the old one a week later. Always works out that way. If I don't buy one, I'll never find it. Thanks again! Much appreciated.

Thank you very much for the reply. The gis you mention aren't readily available here in the States unfortunately. It seems the distributors only carry the highest end lines of Tokaido and Shureido. Without knowing exactly what I'm getting, I'm not comfortable buying from an overseas company. Return shipping across the pond can get quite expensive. I really like Tokaido gis. Not that I've tried on too many, but none of them I've tried on fit me right. To be totally honest, I like their longer tail and fist logo better than Shureido's. The material and workmanship is very comparable IMO. Shureido just feels like it was cut for me personally.

A while back, I read somewhere that one of Funakoshi's original students said Finakoshi wasn't very good, from a physical stand point. But you don't have to be the best practitioner to be a great teacher IMO. Phil Jackson and Pat Riley weren't exactly elite NBA players. Look how their coaching careers turned out. I haven't heard Itosu or Funakoshi weren't good teachers before. I can't confirm or deny this, as both died before I was born. Their influence and students' abilities have however proven to me that they weren't crap.

If you feel you're ready, but he doesn't, you should ask him what you need to improve on. Not from a disrespectful and questioning standpoint, but from a respectful and eager to improve standpoint. Sometimes it's very hard to see our own flaws. The mirrors in the dojo help, but there's nothing like constructive criticism. It's all in the delivery; if you come across as questioning his authority/motives, you won't get anywhere. If you show you want to improve, regardless of the color of some piece of cloth around your waist, you should get some great pointers. Rank is only as good as the person makes it be.

Sorry... I'd buy a new Shureido K-10, but having 2 kids in daycare doesn't leave the disposable income I had about 20 years ago - way out of my price range. And my main justification for replacing the KI is its way too hot. I need something significantly lighter than the KI and a bit lighter than what I remember the K-10 being. The lighter, the better, unless it's garbage quality.

After a 15 year hiatus, I've returned to karate. I used to have a Shureido K-10 that fit me like a custom made Armani suit, but committed a sin by somehow losing it in one of the 4 moves since I last wore it. I have a KI heavyweight gi now, but it's way too heavy (14 oz?) for the summer, and just doesn't fit right - jacket length is too short, pants feel like they're falling down, and so on. One brand that's caught my eye is Tokon. The Europa seems like a very popular gi, but I don't know much about it. I think it's lighter and softer than the America? The Tokon Spirit has caught my interest too, as it seems light, but not see-through pajamas light like my original Century lighteweight gi that I wore for my first 3 months way back when. Maybe this is a better way to go about it... I need a light as possible gi that is durable, isn't see-through, holds its shape, and doesn't turn all yellow and disgusting. Is the Tokon Spirit a glorified beginner gi, or is it a good option here? How does it directly compare with the Europa? I'd honestly like an elastic waist, but I've never seen a quality gi with one, so the Spirit raises a red flag because of it (maybe unjustly so). Is the Tokon line cut like a Tokaido - slim fit/taller narrow person, or more like Shureido - boxier, or for bigger shouldered/stockier people? An old training partner had a Tokaido. Great quality, but it didn't fit me right. My only criticism of the Shureido was the jacket/tail length could have been just a little longer. Or should I suck it up and get the Shureido middleweight K-11. Not much more than the Europa. But I've never seen it so I don't know if it's just a lighter version of the K-10, too light, or an inferior product overall. I'd be shocked if it wasn't up to Shureido standards, but stranger things have happened. I've seen various others - Mugen, Kwon, Ronin, but I've crossed them off my list for various reasons. I greatly appreciate any insight on any of the Shureido or Tokon his, especially comparisons between the Tokons themselves. Thanks!